Broken BK7

[NCWA]

I was throwing it. Is it stupid to throw a knife? Don’t people throw knives all the time? The Chinese steel I was throwing at the same log didn’t break. It is one of the older versions with the stamp and that sure is where it broke.

 

[DMD08]

Yes.

 

[KingMC]

I was throwing it.

That is most definitely why it broke.

Is it stupid to throw a knife?

Yes, it is very stupid to throw a non-throwing-specific knife, because they will break.

Don’t people throw knives all the time?

Yes, but only throwing-specific knives with no heat treat because throwing hardened knives will cause them to break.

The Chinese steel I was throwing at the same log didn’t break.

Because it has a poor heat treat similar to what you'd find on a throwing-specific knife. A proper knife used for cutting has a heat treat making much too hard to throw because the edge is supposed to stay sharp (so it can cut) and thus is hardened via heat-treat. You don't cut with throwing-specific knives because they don't hold an edge because they aren't hardened because then they would break.

It is one of the older versions with the stamp and that sure is where it broke.

That is why Ka-bar switched to laser-etched logos, the stress from the stamp on the blade is where most Becker knives have broken.

 

[Ulf Krogstad]

What Chinese knife were you throwing? Curious. Nice scales on the 7 btw. You should have probably gone with a bk2 if planned on doing foolish things with it. It's nearly indestructible.

 

[upnorth]

Poor timing. Now you are definitely on Santas naughty list.

 

[zfJames]

Yeah, it's pretty dumb to throw a Becker, unless they make a knife that's specifically for throwing. If you're going to practice throwing 'in case,' I would recommend finding a cheap knife that's about the same size and weight as the Becker. I've thrown my SOG Trident folder a few times at cardboard and that's a bad idea—never mind throwing a Becker. I'm certainly not trying to rag on you or anything because your post was a good reminder to me personally since I've just gotten my first BK7. Thanks for posting this!

 

[Goose 7279]

I disagree with the above posts i have thrown many hardened steel knives and never had this problem . Anything from esee, busse and my cpk knives @Lorien throws the every knife they make including the light chopper. Most problems that come from throwing a knife is scale breakage or a broke tip not a total complete break like this. I believe this was a problem with the knife but im not an expert.

I was throwing it. Is it stupid to throw a knife? Don’t people throw knives all the time? The Chinese steel I was throwing at the same log didn’t break. It is one of the older versions with the stamp and that sure is where it broke.

That is most definitely why it broke.



Yes, it is very stupid to throw a non-throwing-specific knife, because they will break.



Yes, but only throwing-specific knives with no heat treat because throwing hardened knives will cause them to break.



Because it has a poor heat treat similar to what you'd find on a throwing-specific knife. A proper knife used for cutting has a heat treat making much too hard to throw because the edge is supposed to stay sharp (so it can cut) and thus is hardened via heat-treat. You don't cut with throwing-specific knives because they don't hold an edge because they aren't hardened because then they would break.



That is why Ka-bar switched to laser-etched logos, the stress from the stamp on the blade is where most Becker knives have broken.

 

[KingMC]

I disagree with the above posts i have thrown many hardened steel knives and never had this problem . Anything from esee, busse and my cpk knives @Lorien throws the every knife they make including the light chopper. Most problems that come from throwing a knife is scale breakage or a broke tip not a total complete break like this. I believe this was a problem with the knife but im not an expert.

Hardened knives are not designed to be thrown, just because some makers design knives overbuilt enough to allow a some light throwing without any immediate breakage does not mean that throwing hardened knives it at all a good thing to do to them. Makers often do stress/abuse tests on their knives to show their strength, but that doesn't mean that hammering your knife into a tree and standing on it is a manufacturer-recommended use for your knife.

Ka-bar's warranty includes this:

KA-BAR Knives, Inc. (the “Company”) warrants, to the original purchaser of the knife only, that this knife will be free from defects in material and craftsmanship under normal use and maintenance for the lifetime of the original purchaser. This Limited Warranty does not apply to any failure of, defect in, or damage to the knife caused by neglect, normal wear and tear, or by improper use, including throwing the knife, batoning with the knife, using the blades as a can opener, chisel, pry bar, screwdriver, digging tool, or for any heavy work for which the knife was not designed.

Just because a knife is able to perform a task once or twice does not mean it is a recommended use of the knife, and if a knife is broken when it is being abused it is never the fault of the knife itself; that is the fault of the user abusing said knife.

 

[zzyzzogeton]

Throwing knives are usually tempered back to around 43 to 47 HRc. This allows for more flex in the blades.

Can one throw higher HRc knives and not break them? Yes..... for a while. And WHAT you throw AT makes a difference as well.

Throw a production knife often enough and it will break, usually sooner than later.

Since I never know when I might NEED to throw a typical production knife, I have made a bunch similar in size and weight to what I carry - BK9s, BK7s, W49s, W47s, 1219C2s, Kabar 3/4 shorties - those are what I throw -- NOT the production knives.

On cheap Chinese throwing knives.

Some will break after very few throws - sometimes as soon as the very first throw.
Some are actually fairly well made.
The stainless steel throwers usually break quicker than other steels.

It's a crap shoot when throwing Chinese made knives, whether they are advertised as throwing knives or not.

No one I know that throws competitively throws high HRC production knives in competition or for practice. And they definitely don't throw Chinese knives.

Want more info on throwers?? Let's meet in the Throwing Knives sub-forum

 

[cEdge]

Right there in the warranty it clearly states, "due to improper use including throwing the knife, batoning with the knife...

Damn, we're all screwed!

 

[zzyzzogeton]

But then look at the last phrase..

"....or for any heavy work for which the knife was not designed."

Since Beckers were designed to handle batoning, we're still good.

 

[Goose 7279]

Well if you believe kabar and king that batoning digging and prying is abuse and it is acceptable to have a catastrophic failure such as this from any of the aforementioned duties.

I stand by my statement that a proper 3/16 bk7 in 1095 hardened at 56-57 should have been able to be thrown into a log without snapping into. The stamping process had to severely compromise the intgrity of the steel.

In my opinion if you cant baton a chopper it is useless. Also onto the hrc that is a moot point because every steel is different when treated. I have seen plenty of throwers at a 53 hrc and owned them as well. I actually prefer stainless throwers myself. I dont find them more likely to break either as others have suggested.

 

[bush-haus]

All you need are some binder clips and some super glue. Should hold her until you throw it again.
Next time you wanna throw a Becker, just... don’t. You want to do that, buy knives designed to throw.

——————-
Beckerhead #32

 

[tanglediver]

Tig weld it back together, and ..................... done.
You may resume fire when ready.

 

[BRab]

Take off the handles and with a bit of grinding you'll now have 2 throwers...

 

[91bravo]

JB Weld Looks like you broke that blade some time ago as there is corrosion on the ends of the broken pieces. Don't throw knives that aren't meant to be thrown and we'll all be good....

 

[upnorth]

This can be used as a teachable moment for newer members. Myself, I can be dumb as a bag of hammers, too lazy to research/read, or simply didn't have some information, whatever. We are human. So......generally it is a poor practice to throw most knives. It is also a bit dicey to baton (thump the knife through a chunk of wood etc). But once bought, that knife is your property to do with as you wish. Do realize however that pretty much most manufacturers look at the above practices as leaning toward abuse and not within their intended design use parameters. You may or may not receive a replacement from the manufacturer if they deem the break as potentially associated with a known design or manufacturing flaw, which they tend to weed out through ongoing product improvement initiatives. Ironically these ''flaws'' are almost always seen occasionally when the knife is used beyond its original design intent. Yes there are companies like ESEE that have a total replacement guarantee if you bust one up. But that warranty also goes into the initial cost of the product.

 

[PoorUserName]

A sci-fi book i was reading.

Ice Station Zebra, Europa

Lucky’s right hand found the hilt of his K-bar, sheathed on his hip, popped the locking strap, dragged the knife free. The PRC soldier—Lucky could see the man’s face just above his through the dark visor, could see the terror-widened eyes—reached down and pounded at Lucky’s helmet with clenched, gloved fists, trying to smash the visor.
Lucky slammed the point of the knife up against his opponent’s throat as hard as he could. The black blade glanced off the helmet locking ring and snapped off clean at the hilt, the metal made brittle by the extreme cold.
He shifted his aim and drove upward with the hilt still clenched in his hand, smashing the guard against the enemy soldier’s visor. And again. And again…

 

[bearfacedkiller]

You may be able to get away with it for a while but it is not a good idea to throw non throwing knives.

As a child my father taught me that you should always use tools for their intended purpose and if not they usually won't like it. I have usually found that advice to be true.

 

[NCWA]

I thought I was into knives but I had never come across this info about which ones to throw or not. Granted, I'm really not specifically into throwing knives. I thought maybe I was about to get into it... I watched a few videos about it and nobody mentioned anything about only throwing knives of a certain hardness or anything like that, so at least in my experience this isn't super common widely available knowledge. There are videos of people throwing Beckers even. No, I don't plan on doing everything I see on Youtube, but clearly: throwing a knife does not always equal instant fail, even though it did for me.

That BK7 was the first serious knife I bought, after a ton of research. In all the research and everything looking into it that I did, I never came across one breaking for pretty much any reason. I guess they aren't being used much for throwing, but obviously I'm not the first person ever to have thrown one. Given the reputation these knives enjoy; common phrases about them being things like how they can "take abuse," and being "something you can trust your life to," and "throw anything at them," etc., and in Ka-bars words: "Quality your life can depend on. Hardcore Knives. Hardcore Lives." I never thought twice about it.

"Using the proper tool for it's intended purpose" and all that. Yeah, obviously. On the other hand, though, the whole idea behind these knives, and the marketing, is specifically intended as something that you can 'do it all' with. And if we are really going to go there, then nobody should baton wood with any knife either, because an axe is the proper tool for that job...

It is notable about the warranty, like has been mentioned, that it specifically states it also does not cover batoning, nor even 'normal wear and tear.' Every other post about these knives is somebody batoning them...

I don't know if the stamp, or if part of the steel being darker like it is for some reason had anything to do with it, or if there *might* have been any other type of flaw in the blade. I'm not a metallurgist or blacksmith or knife maker. We do know that the stamp was something that they have changed, as KingMC pointed out.

That BK7 had served me well enough for the past couple years of general use, camp chores, light batoning, light chopping, etc., but before this I really had never pushed it at all. Obviously, everything has its limits. Clearly, I didn't think throwing it was beyond its limits before I did it.

So now the knife community has a thread on a forum about don't throw Beckers, so I guess that might be useful to somebody.