Bugei vs Dynasty Forge

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Jul 7, 2012
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I think I've decided to go ahead and try katana ownership again. I've been kind of back and forth on what to get because it seems there is VERY little information out there across the various sword and knife forums when in the form of reviews on usage and construction.

Anyway, I've pretty much narrowed down my selection to DF or Bugei. I know Bugei is made by Hanwei but the swords are made to their specs and they reject the ones that don't live up to their QC.

I'm looking for a sword that cuts very well and is strong enough to stand up to cutting over the years. I plan on using it to cut tatame mats occasionally but at the same time I want something that looks great in the living room.

I know the Samurai and Bamboo swords from Bugei are known to be very thick, heavy and strong. Naturally I am considering these but don't know how their mountings compare quality wise to DF. According to what I can find review wise, these swords were made for cutting and use.

From DF there seem to be a LOT more options. From what I can tell:

Daimyo class--the most expensive swords in their lineup but from what I've read it seems the extra cost is just because they are traditionally polished and this also results in thinner weaker blades. If this is true then these aren't for me.

Bushi class--Divided into forged-folded and 1095 monosteel class. Non traditional polish that holds up to use better and thicker blades. Several types available without Bo-Hi. My question here would be which is "stronger"? 1095 is high carbon and thus relatively brittle, the forged-folded would be less brittle here but then there is the risk of flaws in the folding process.

Who has owned some of these swords and can chime in?

Which would be considered the most durable, which would look the best on display?

Edited to add:

It seems the sword forums get very little traffic compared to others. Hoping to get at least one or two opinions.
 
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Hello again Falar

It is hard for me to comment on Bugei, because I never bought into the "Bugei Myth" . I do respect James and Keith , but that respect doesn't correlate to me paying such a premium for swords that are similar to Hanwei models.

That said , I have owned a few Hanwei...

a PPK
PK Elite
Tori Elite
Wind & Thunder (2)
Shinto
Bamboo Mat
Kaeru

I still own a Kaeru and Wind & Thunder... and miss the Bamboo Mat.

Dynasty Forge is also a great katana ... but the two have different strengths and weaknesses.

If I was going to have to pick one katana and only one katana ... I would probably go with a Hanwei as they are probably better all around (backyard cutting, display, aesthetics, ) If I was going for a user sword for tameshigiri I'd go with a DF ( better tsuka shaping , better feel, better edge)

Of course this is all subjective , but those are my thoughts.

To muddy the waters even more (and outside the scope of your inquiry) within your budget also check out Citadel, Ronin Dojo Elite and Project X for high end kats (production)or, if you can double your budget you can get a fully mounted sword (with no wait) from custom smith Pavel Bolf.
 
Bugei swords are great, however a little big due to James' personal view on the art. I'm talking 15" and up tsukas. You also have great quality control, thanks to Keith's critical eye. He's sent back whole shipments that didn't meet their standards. As some of you may know, the similarities between Bugei and Hanwei are more than just coincidence, they are one in the same. Paul Chen/Hanwei makes Bugei's swords, though with much stricter specs and QC.

As to Dynasty Forge, I can't quite comment on them as I've never owned, but peeps seem to like them. You also have the added benefit of Aaron Justice who does some semi-customizations for the blades, such as acid washes, stone polishing, tsuka wraps. At least, he was working with them last time I checked a couple years ago.

I would do as Marc suggested and start with the lower end Hanwei blades, along with some of the others he mentioned. I fyou like what you find maybe you'll move on to higher quality swords. Then again, if you like what you find, maybe you won't want to move on.
 
Thanks.

I thought Pavel Bolf was a year or so wait on swords?

I had kind of ruled Hanwei out. I have owned one before, a Shinto model back in 2003. It came with a very loose fitting saya that resulted in me almost losing a finger. The reason I ruled them out though was because my line of thinking was that if Bugei represented the best of Hanwei I would just get one of those instead. However, if that isn't true and their QC is just an overrated myth then I will pass.

I'm looking at what Hanwei has to offer now. The Bushido looks great and I see that they have or had L6 Katanas (the Oni looks cool). I will add the very high end Hanweis to the mix of what I am looking for then.
 
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I wouldn't say Bugei's QC was a myth. Very few lemons get by Keith. Still, he's only human and he can't see into the blade itself. If you like L6, there is a Korean company that does excellent L6 kats. They're not cheap, but they seem to be high quality. martialartsswords is what they're called, I believe. I sent you some links that you can get some info from.
 
It looks like there isn't anything definitive out there about L6 production level Katanas doing anything better than the usual steels, so maybe not.
 
Performance wise, L6 doesn't do any better at cutting than any other sword. However, it can take a bad cut a lot better than most steels. You have a decresed risk of the blade taking a bend on a bad cut. Downside is, it stains real quick. I'm talking you have to wipe it down after each cut.
 
Actual Martial Arts Swords is a Canadian company who imported their blades from Korea ... the old Korean smith they used has health problems and no longer works with them ... I haven't liked the newer blades I've seen since.

No I wouldn't say Keith's QC is a myth, but I have a hard time paying $1300 for a Bugei Shobu which shares tons of similarites with a $600 Wind & Thunder made by the same people...

A custom commission from Pavel Bolf can take a couple of years.... but he often has completed swords in stock for immediate delivery.

http://jswords.com/11-04_d.php
 
I think the price is a little bit closer than that.

The cheapest I can find a Wind and Thunder is for 694 and the Bugei Shobu is 1150.

When looking at the Hanwei swords though their price is all over the place---some swords similar to the Wind and Thunder but with different mountings go for the same or slightly less but then they've got swords going well over 1000 also and not just the L6-Bainite swords.

Maybe custom and a long wait truly is the way to go.
 
Personally from use and aesthetics, the CAS Hanwei Tiger Elite.....has it ALL.

Have seen it for as low as $1,100...for that price it is a very good deal.

I have a dealer account, so I pay a lot less than that, but if you can find it for roughly $900.00 delivered, you will be one happy camper.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Bugei out of the running as I found out they have nothing in stock. You have to order and then wait half a year or more. No thanks, not for a production level item anyway.

So now it comes down to Hanwei vs DF and I had not been looking at the "Tiger Elite". For whatever reason it just didn't appeal to me but I'm going to check it now.

So from Hanwei I'm looking at:

Oni Katana (L6)
Bushido Katana
Tiger Elite Katana

And from DF I'm still torn between folded vs 1095 in the Bushi class.

At these entry level prices though maybe I will just get a few of each and do a comparison.
 
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Of the Hanwei you have listed ... perhaps even of all Hanwei , the Bushido is my favorite. I have friends with them... still need to get one of my own.

As far as the DF bushi class... I personally would choose FF ... and I am not a folded type guy ... but for some reason I am not a 1095 fan.
 
Of the Hanwei you have listed ... perhaps even of all Hanwei , the Bushido is my favorite. I have friends with them... still need to get one of my own.

As far as the DF bushi class... I personally would choose FF ... and I am not a folded type guy ... but for some reason I am not a 1095 fan.

The Bushido sure is a handsome looking blade and every picture I've seen of the kissaki shows a clear yokote. I can't say the same for the Oni Katana or a few other Hanwei swords. Considering aesthetics only, it is also my favorite in the Hanwei lineup. I will order one for sure.
 
I have many swords from Hanwei and a few from Bugei

Comparing my ONI to my Bamboo. I would take the ONI

If your interested in an unused Bamboo let me know :)
 
If you like the fittings on the Bushido, it is a fine blade, and unique in the Hanwei lineup....just can't stand the saya, it is too Las Vegas to my eye, and prefer black steel tsuba.

The Oni is good, but found some strange cutting with the Praying Mantis that I have. It's also Hanwei L6, but in a shobu zukuri rendition....which you would think would cut better, geometry-wise. This one is hair shaving sharp, but "drags" when it cuts, so you have to "snap" it more to finish a cut cleanly. It is very tough, not bendy steel. If you are not controlling the blade(rather than just letting it run), you will be disappointed by the performance.

I don't personally know anyone that cut with the Oni besides my buddy James and my other buddy Robin Ramirez, but would be VERY interested in the feedback. At 14" in my ryu, the tsuka is 2" too long, unless you have massively large hands.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
I never thought I would get a non black tsuba and saya katana either but I do like the Bushido.

Something plain would have been nice (like the Bugei Samurai) but the ultimate factor ended up being who had what in stock. Of all the swords I was interested in, the Bushido was the only one I found available.
 
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I received my Bushido today and the sword is very nice. I couldn't find any flaws with it whatsoever and it was even quite a bit smaller/lighter than what the online descriptions made it seem. Great blade well worth the money in my opinion.

Unfortunately the saya fit is very poor. Unlike my first Hanwei sword it isn't a problem of a tight fit between koiguchi/habaki but instead the dreaded saya rattle. It has quite a bit of saya rattle.
 
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I handled a few Dynasty forge katana's, 2 bushi and ton of their lower end offerings found them to be excellent but Bugei definitely took the price.
The bugei peace katana I handled was far far better in terms of balance, fittings, tsuka, tsukamaki, and fit and finish.

Haven't cut with either, and just handled them only. So that's about what I can say.
 
I received my Oni Katana today.

No saya rattle, tight fit at the habaki. Nicely contoured tsuka (not the dreaded hanwei axe handle) and just a solid feeling sword. I like the length and height of the blade, it doesn't narrow down nearly as much as the Bushido. The L6 is definitely as advertised though, weird appearance not nearly as nice as the other steels.

Really cool sword in my opinion.

Neither one of them have any Niku at all though, seems this is the case for most/all production blades.
 
Neither one of them have any Niku at all though, seems this is the case for most/all production blades.

Niku literally means "meat". It refers to a blade being "healthy"....lots of "oooomfh".

What are you referring to?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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