Camillus Beater Knife-440 Steel Question

[Greggy]

I was walking the aisles at the local Wally Mart yesterday and couldn't resist. I always liked the look of the Camillus lk6. Short, stubby, and beefy bellied blade. For $20 I pulled the trigger.

The package indicated 440 steel with some voodoo titanium bonding. I suspect 440A but cannot confirm or deny after searching Youtube and other sources. What say you? Thanks in advance.

 

[knarfeng]

It's made in China for the consortium who purchased the "Camillus" name after Camillus went bankrupt in 207.
The only online vendor selling that knife with a stainless blade says it's 420 (=420HC).
So, MAYBE 440A, but more likely 420HC. Either will give roughly the same performance.

 

[Greggy]

Thanks for the reply. I guess I would prefer 420HC because of the success that Buck has with that steel. I know that depends in no small part on heat treat. Anyway, the blade came very sharp from the manufacturer. Will learn more the first time I sharpen it. Thanks.

 

[Chronovore]

It's made in China for the consortium who purchased the "Camillus" name after Camillus went bankrupt in 207.
The only online vendor selling that knife with a stainless blade says it's 420 (=420HC).
So, MAYBE 440A, but more likely 420HC. Either will give roughly the same performance.

Thanks for the reply. I guess I would prefer 420HC because of the success that Buck has with that steel. I know that depends in no small part on heat treat. Anyway, the blade came very sharp from the manufacturer. Will learn more the first time I sharpen it. Thanks.

It appears to be 440A. I was able to find reviews of this knife online. It just seems to be mislabled at a bunch of places and at least one review mentions that. It is possible that they quietly changed from one steel to the other and the pages never got updated.

Even if it was 420HC, it wouldn't have the Bos heat treatment that makes it better with the Buck knives. This is a $20 knife made in a Chinese mystery factory for whoever owns the brand name. It'd be a cheap steel with exactly the kind of heat treatment you'd expect under that circumstance. It would probably work as well too.

We see the same issue with heat treatment on 440A. If you look at Larrin 's steel chart, he rates 440A higher than 14C28N, LC200N, or Nitro-V on edge retention. Apparently, 440A is capable of surprising things with the right heat treatment, and that's what he tested. The only current production folders I know about in 440A are all made in China and most cost like $20. They also get the heat treatment you'd expect at that price. Needless to say, the edge retention is significantly worse than current production knives in any of those other steels I mentioned. Best case scenario, this might perform as well as knives in 7Cr17Mov.

 

[KenHash]

I'm rather confused. Looking at the Camilus LK6 knife on their site they say;

"The blade is made of D2 steel and is also bonded with titanium to provide an added layer of resistance to rust and corrosion. Plus, the bonding makes the blade up to 3x harder than untreated steel so the it can keep its edge far longer than traditional knife blades. The base D2 blade material is an air-hardened tool steel is sometimes called a "semi-stainless" steel because of its 12% chromium content. This way, you can have an added layer of corrosion resistance on top of the exceptional edge retention from the titanium bonding process"

Then on the same page under it ;

"• Main Blade Material: 420"

 

[Greggy]

I'm rather confused. Looking at the Camilus LK6 knife on their site they say;

"The blade is made of D2 steel and is also bonded with titanium to provide an added layer of resistance to rust and corrosion. Plus, the bonding makes the blade up to 3x harder than untreated steel so the it can keep its edge far longer than traditional knife blades. The base D2 blade material is an air-hardened tool steel is sometimes called a "semi-stainless" steel because of its 12% chromium content. This way, you can have an added layer of corrosion resistance on top of the exceptional edge retention from the titanium bonding process"

Then on the same page under it ;

"• Main Blade Material: 420"

I know, it is confusing. Hence why I posted this thread. The packaging states "440 steel." Yet a D2 version is/was available at some point. Knife Center had them. And finally, other sources indicate 420, then we may assume 420HC. For me, I suspect that the packaging labeling is the most reliable source, but even that is suspect. My package indicates 440 steel. Hmmmm.....

Even so, I am okay with cheaper steels. $20 knife. I like to sharpen blades!

 

[Chronovore]

... Even so, I am okay with cheaper steels. $20 knife. I like to sharpen blades!

I often make the point about quality relative to price on other knives. For instance, a $40+ knife in 8Cr13Mov is not a good deal in the current market. However, things change when we are in the $20 and under category. This is where those "cheap" steels still have a place.

I have a few knives in 7Cr17Mov, 8Cr13Mov, and AUS-8. They hang around either for sentimental reasons or because I like the design. I still use them on occasion. They don't get used for hard work and they rarely get carried. So their relatively low edge retention really isn't a big deal.

 

[Greggy]

I often make the point about quality relative to price on other knives. For instance, a $40+ knife in 8Cr13Mov is not a good deal in the current market. However, things change when we are in the $20 and under category. This is where those "cheap" steels still have a place.

I have a few knives in 7Cr17Mov, 8Cr13Mov, and AUS-8. They hang around either for sentimental reasons or because I like the design. I still use them on occasion. They don't get used for hard work and they rarely get carried. So their relatively low edge retention really isn't a big deal.

My $28 Utilitac in AUS 8 Tanto blade is my favorite knife. I hang with the budget steels.

 

[Chronovore]

My $28 Utilitac in AUS 8 Tanto blade is my favorite knife. I hang with the budget steels.

AUS-8 is interesting. It is similar to 8Cr13Mov on paper. There are lots of knives in AUS-8 where it performs like 8Cr13Mov. However, some knives in AUS-8 just seem to hold a much better edge. That isn't even from my own anecdotal experiences. It sometimes shows up in cut testing, like the Rat AUS-8 vs D2 challenges.

 

[Hashishiin]

I like some budget steels done right. Some steels I currently have that I am looking to use more: BD1N, 420HC, AUS-8, 12c27, 14c28n, Alox... I imagine your Camillus is exactly as advertised. A 420 blade to beat on, that hopefully will not break, that you won't expect the most retention out of. For me, I went USA made and just bought a 1075 Ontario fixed blade, for that purpose. I heard recently that 440-type blades have higher edge retention than 1075. Significantly.

I can't bring myself to buy even a token knife from these places, though. I walked into Big 5 to look for spray after I lost mine in a parking lot, checked out the knives while I was in there... man, it was not inspiring, but I saw Byrd, Kershaw, Buck... along with M-Tech and WarTech. I went in there again and man, I need to take a pic for you guys. It's just a ludicrous knife section that doesn't look serious at all. I saw two serious-looking older men talking about knives and handing each other colored CS-GO Karambits and those whack tiger-striped WarTech fixed blades with the nonsensical spine saws. I really wanted to tell them why they shouldn't be even considering those knives for real world use.

I didn't know what to do, so I just said "I recommend Spyderco knives..." as I left.

 

[rhino]

One good thing about 440A is that it can get really sharp pretty easily (unless the heat treatment is abysmal). I actually prefer 440A to 440C for that reason, all else being equal.

 

[USMCPOP]

One good thing about 440A is that it can get really sharp pretty easily (unless the heat treatment is abysmal). I actually prefer 440A to 440C for that reason, all else being equal.

I think the BUDK "wahoo killers" might be 440A. Might be 420J2, whatever. But at a cost (a little while back) of 3 for $5 shipped, why not? The knives may not be worth much, but the sheaths fit a Mora Companion. I note that the Walmart 88 cent kitchen chef knives are now about a buck and a half. Good knives for weeding in the garden.