Camping stoves for survival

R

Rich_S

Joined
Dec 3, 2005
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I have a few stoves and I enjoy testing them under various conditions. Temperature and wind play a huge role in their effectiveness based on my observations. Today was warm and windy (78 deg F with 20 mph winds). I felt like playing with some of my stoves, so I took out my old Coleman Feather 442 Dual Fuel that I've had for around 8 years and filled it with some white gas.

The box says that it can boil a quart of water in 3.75 minutes at sea level, 70F, and no wind. I've always found that to be optimistic. I can usually boil a quart of warter in 5-5.5 minutes with it on a warm day with no wind, and I'm just above sea level. Today, however was extremely windy. It took 11 minutes to boil. Huge difference. But boil, it did.

Next up was the Trangia 28. Normally I can boil a quart of water in 12-13 minutes on a warm still day. But with today's wind, it just wouldn't boil, and then a big gust of wind blew the damn thing out so I stopped testing. Now, I will say, that if I took the time to fashion a windscreen, I'm confident I could have gotten it to boil water in the wind, but it probably would have taken half an hour to boil.

I also have an Esbit stove. I didn't even bother testing it. Based on past experience, even under PERFECT conditions, I can't get the thing to boil water. IMO, all that the Esbit/Trioxane solid fuel stoves are good for is heating a CUP of water up to 170 or so degrees to make a cup of coffee, tea, or Ramen noodles. That's about it. They're useless for purifying water or cooking meals as far as I'm concerned.

One other thing I'll note is that the starting temp of the water also makes a moderate difference and it's a variable you don't often see tested. Even if it's 80 degrees out, water in a stream or lake is likely to be way colder than that. It takes measurably longer to boil water that starts out at 50 degrees than water that starts out at 75 degrees.

I don't own any butane stoves, so I can't comment on those. My view is that I can get gasoline or alcohol anywhere, but not necessarily butane cannisters, so I'm not interested in them.

Bottom line is that unless weight is absolutely critical, I'll take a white gas/unleaded gas stove hands down. If weight is the critical factor, I'll go with an alcohol stove, but only after careful consideration. Solid fuel stoves will get left behind every time.
 
Great comparative test. :thumbup:

Now we need to have one that includes a hobo stove. :D
 
I have a mre one burner that can use 4 types of fuel, its around 80 bucks, and does boil water in reasonable time.

The coleman stove is ok, but if you want to boil large amts of water, even in the summer, it's gonna take a while.

Butane sucks for even moderately cool temp, and wouldn't recommend getting one, unless you're a light car camper that's only out once or twice a year.
 
There are so many variables in getting water to boil that the skill of the tester and how he can improvise is IMHO more important than the stove itself. My MSR Pocket Rocket is an outstanding little stove that burns a propane/butane mixture. It has almost no wind shielding built into it but I can make it perform just fine in the Sierras in winter. I also have an MSR XGK that I bought about 1991. It works just fine on Coleman fuel but also has no built in wind protection and requires that I build one for it. Same goes for the Trangia 28, or the Coleman 442 that just sits on a shelf in the basements these days.
 
Very interesting test thanks.

Can anybody explain this disdain for butane stoves? Are they ineffective or what? On the other hand, lugging liquid fuel around can't be much of a joke either...
 
willgoy said:
Very interesting test thanks.

Can anybody explain this disdain for butane stoves? Are they ineffective or what? On the other hand, lugging liquid fuel around can't be much of a joke either...
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Butane stoves aren't that bad but they do have a number of drawbacks:

Availability of butane canisters when you're out in the middle of nowhere.

Altitude - the stoves don't work well at all at high altitudes.

Temperature - the stoves don't work well in the cold. However, some of the newer cannisters are a mix of butane, isobutane, and propane and work much better in the cold.

Heat output drops considerably along with the level of fuel in the cannister.
 
Willgoy when you say butane do you mean modern butane/propane fuel canisters like MSR, Snow Peak GigaPower, Jet Boil and the like? If so then the concern is packing out the empty canister. An 8oz canister will burn about 1 hour full blast and about 2 hours on simmer. Most of my trips are the weekend variety so I only need one 4 or 8oz canister. Of course there is no way to top off a canister after using it so some guess work is involved deciding how much fuel is left. On the other hand the stove/canisters break down into small no leak components will no fuel residue to deal with. Coleman fuel breaks down O-ring seals pretty fast, a spare parts kit (o-rings,seals, grease) is mandatory for a liquid fuel stove. Liquid fuel stoves typically flare up when heating and lighting creating a fire hazard.
Overall each has its advantages and disadvantages. For most applications I would go with a propane/butane canister stove.
 
Just a note on the isobutane cannisters, I've marking burn times with a sharpie on the bottom of the cans. It gives you a fair idea of when a replacement is called for.

J.
 
Butane stove also goes out easier in the wind. I find that it makes a big difference in ease of lighting in the wind. Kersone always lights for me.
 
There's been some misinformatio on "butane" cannister stoves put out. I took a Snow Peak Gigapower stove with me on a recent late spring Mount Whitney trip.

One 220 gram fuel cartridge lasted 4 days, no problem, with fuel left over. Worked fine in 25 degree weather, and at 12,000+ ft. ASL. Fuel was the cheapest Coleman brand 70%butane - 30% propane cannisters I could find.

I fashioned a half-round windshield from aluminum roof flashing, and was very happy.
 
I'll second the positive view toward butane canister stoves. Actually, now you can get isobutane/propane canisters all over the place (MSR, Snow Peak, Brunton, to name a few), and they work better at low temperatures. I have seen them used in temps down to 20 degrees with no problem at all. And some models allow liquid feed (at least one Coleman stove is designed that way, and I can do it with my MSR Windpro). With liquid feed, you can operate a canister stove well below zero. Canister stoves are more susceptible to wind, but some models (like my Windpro) can be used with a windscreen. I have seen them in use up to 11,500', and they work very well at elevation. In fact, they should work better at elevation because there is greater pressure gradient between the canister interior and the outside air. For ultra efficiency, my combination of the MSR Windpro and Jetboil GCS pot uses about 1 oz of fuel per day per person with my cooking habits (oatmeal breakfast, freeze-dried dinner or something like easy mac or pasta & sauce with foil pack salmon, plus boiling some cleaning water).

If you want an ultra-reliable white gas stove, get a Svea 123R. They have been around for a long, long time. The only spare part you will need to have is an extra fuel cap, the rubber gasket on the fuel caps lasts for about 20 years.
 
2dogs said:
. . .
Coleman fuel breaks down O-ring seals pretty fast, a spare parts kit (o-rings,seals, grease) is mandatory for a liquid fuel stove.
I have used my Coleman Multi-Fuel (1st model) for fifteen years -- perhaps seven-eight weekends a year. It is still operating on its original parts. I have not always used genuine Coleman Fuel, but generics about 1/3 of the time.

Liquid fuel stoves typically flare up when heating and lighting creating a fire hazard.
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This was a problem with the original Coleman "Feather stove" (the brown one) -- AKA, "The Vesuvuis Effect" - ten foot high orange flames. :eek:.

I have several pump-pressurized liquid fuel stoves in addition to the Multi-Fuel (MSR x 3; Coleman Apex; Primus; Svea). None flares up, even when used in January here -- if one follows the directions for use.

The older, non-pump-presurized stoves (Svea 123; Optimus 8R) flamed up by design ("priming") to create pressure.

I confess to have never tried a cartridge stove. When ignorance is bliss . . . :D
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From the original post, looking at it from a survival standpoint, it seems the multifuel versatility would be important. MSR whisperlite international burns kerosene, white gas, unleaded, and diesel. On the other hand, for a kit a tiny butane stove w/ a refill or two could be light and handy. Pick your poison.:) So far I like the white gas, cause having half a bottle along w/ a full one pretty well negates any weight savings. Might just have to pick up a cartridge stove though, just cause they are so tiny.:)
 
In the long run i dont think you can go wrong with Svea 123 or Optimus. Both are time proven and seem to withstand anything a person can dish at it. I been using a Optimus 8 hunter for over 17 years and guess what it was giving to me by my dad who used it for over 20 years before. I think a Hobo stove has longer history then a Svea or the Optimus.

Sasha
 
I own and have used several stoves over the past several years. My go-to stove for the majority of tasks was an MSR XGK, which was replaced by the Optimus because I liked the simmer option. It's been a very robust and reliable stove.

Another good stove is the Svea 123, not much to go wrong, simple and reliable.

Now, for long-term, the multi-fuel gas stoves are probably your best bet, but I often take my Snow Peak Giga or Jetboil, both of which are butane canister stoves for backpacking and camping trips (and I keep the Jetboil in my get-home bag). Granted the fuel cartrigde is a big glitch for long-term use, but for short term (get home), backpacking or camping, they have several advantages. They are typicall lighter, easier and faster to operate and quieter. I haven't used any them at extreme altitudes or sub zero temperatures, but for typcial 2-3 season use, they fit their niche well. If I was to get one stove, it would be the Optimus.

ROCK6
 
I think we have different views of what cold is. 20F is a typical daytime high in early winter around here. There are many -30C nights around here. But i'll have to look in to the newer models you guys are talking about tho, never really looked at them closely.
 
raindog101 said:
Sierra Zip stove. $20 at Campmor.
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All I found was the Windscreen and Grill for $19.99. I had credit card in hand and was ready to order another Zip stove for $20. That would have been a nice Christmas gift to give.

I like stoves. I wish I had more to play with.

Peak 1 Feather 442 - I have had this stove for at least 17 years It has been very dependable, and I have never had a problem with it. It is still running with all original parts.

ZZ SIerra Zip Stove - I bought one of these a few years ago, and have only used it a few times. With constant feeding, it will boil a comparable amount of water not quite as fast as the Feather 442, but it isn't a slouch, either. I like the idea of using natural fuel, as it is abundant. The fan for the stove is powered my a AA battery, which I use in my headlamp and GPS. However, the battery, light gas/fuel, is a consumable, and eventually it will be used up.

Esbit stove - I have Esbit stoves, and in favorable conditions you can get a cup of water to boil. Adding natural fuels can help bolster the output of the stove. Again, once the useful fuel tabs are gone, you just have a miniature fire platform.

Pocket Cooker - I like this stove, and it is my current favorite to use.
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RI06008.jpg

The Pocket Cooker folds flat and uses natural fuels. There is no fan or anything, so it takes a little while to boil water. I believe it took about 8-9 minutes to boil about 750ml of water in those pictures, but I was aided by a breeze. Nevertheless, a rolling boil was achieved. It's a great stove, I highly recommend it.
 
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