Can anyone tell me anything about this stone?

J

JayC783

Joined
Nov 16, 2015
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I pretty much know nothing about sharpening stones. This stone was my grandfather's. In another month, he will have been gone 14 years. Other than knowing it was his, I don't know anything about it. I was given the stone after he was gone. I didn't even know he had one, until I mentioned to a family member one day that I was thinking about getting one. I was then given the stone.



Anyway, I was wondering if someone could tell me what kind it is? It's not a big stone. It's 5"L x 2"W x 3/4"D. I know it's hard to tell from the photos, but does anyone know what grit the top and bottom might be?

Here's the smoother side. As you can see, it has a couple good nicks in it. Would those affect the way the knife sharpens?



There's also a nick that travels the width of the stone.



I have no idea what caused those nicks. I've tried practicing my freehand skills with the stone, but I can't get a good edge out of it. I tried again today, and the longer it takes, the more unsteady my arm gets. My arm gets tired doing it after awhile. When I use it, I keep it wet. I've got a Smith's Two Stone Precision Sharpening System with guide rods. I know it's a cheaper sharpener, but I can get a much better edge with it than the stone. I guess I'm not sure if I just suck at using the stone, or if the stone sucks. :o
 
Looks like an inexpensive silicon carbide dual grit stone. I've got a similar one I picked up at an Ace hardware store a few years ago. You can gouge them by scraping something hard across them, like maybe trying to dull a knife intentionally. I did something similar to my el-cheapo by trying to dull some scraper blades before throwing them out.

You can lap that stone on the sidewalk to even it up a bit. Or just get a $6 Norton Economy stone at Home Depot, which is similar but a little bigger.

That stone is made to be used with oil, by the way. It's also rather coarse so while good for reprofiling, you won't get a fine edge with it.
 
^Ditto that. Does look like a dual-sided SiC (silicon carbide) stone. Maybe an aluminum oxide equivalent, though they usually appear somewhat lighter in color (grey; the SiC stones are more black, or very dark slate grey or bluish, depending on lighting). Either way, likely a typical 'hardware store' type stone found at Home Depot, ACE, Sears and many other places.


David
 
JayC783 said:
I pretty much know nothing about sharpening
Anyway, I was wondering if someone could tell me what kind it is? It's not a big stone.
It's 5"L x 2"W x 3/4"D. I know it's hard to tell from the photos, but does anyone know what grit the top and bottom might be?
Here's the smoother side. As you can see, it has a couple good nicks in it. Would those affect the way the knife sharpens?
There's also a nick that travels the width of the stone.
I have no idea what caused those nicks.
I've tried practicing my freehand skills with the stone, but I can't get a good edge out of it.
I tried again today, and the longer it takes, the more unsteady my arm gets.
My arm gets tired doing it after awhile. When I use it, I keep it wet. I've got a Smith's Two Stone Precision Sharpening System with guide rods. I know it's a cheaper sharpener, but I can get a much better edge with it than the stone. I guess I'm not sure if I just suck at using the stone, or if the stone sucks. :o
Click to expand...

Hi

nice, stone looks like it could be sic or aluminum oxide
I think its aluminum oxide because one side has white spots
it could be half and half , but its probably aluminum oxide
the white spots make me think that, my dollar tree stone has white spots,
my norton economy sic stone has no white spots
man-made sic is supposed green to black in color, so white spots probably means not sic

dark side is coarse side and light side is fine,
typically these things are 80-150 grit on coarse side and 150-320 grit on fine side
but they could be same grit and coarse side simply has bigger pores/holes

don't throw stone away, its always good for something it may be cheap $1 or less stone, but they work, not hard to get various levels of shaving sharpness using one -- they're better than a brick and people get shaving sharp from bricks

the nicks could have come with the stone but its more likely
somebody put them there


nicks aren't a big concern, but you can snag knife on them
if you try sharpening and you snag, simply adjust how your stroke
or you hold the stone ....
or go and remove the nicks

nicks on the corners are easiest to snag your knife on,
but are also the easiest to remove
in the middle they're easy to avoid

here is a video on basic stone maintenance , just rub/ROUND/chamfer the corners
Tips for Flattening / Lapping sharpening stones - part 3 - stefanwolf88
loose grit sand helps speed up flattening the flats
you can use hacksaw or nail to scratch up the surface so its "conditioned' and ready to cut your blades

basic sharpening, raise a tiny burr, cut it off at elevated angle, shave
how to sharpen a knife - Joe Calton

sharpening with a stone like yours and mine , same color as my my dollar tree stone , says grit is 120 to 240
? Cheap sharpening stone - does it work? - stefanwolf88

if you press too hard your arm will get sore ... been there done that, still do it sometimes
so keep pressing hard to about 1 minute worth of sharpening, then take a break, go lighter

if you're getting unsteady change your grip, thumb on side near heel toward yourself, thumb on spine away from yourself with optional index finger on blade

you can see in stefans video, he has stone comfortably in hand with fingers out of the way, and he goes with under 1lb of force with other hand ... very comfortable position

if you want force, then do it like joe, put a wetted towel on table and brick on it and wetted towel on brick and your stone on it, then using TWO hands ... so your one hand doesn't get tired

practice with short/thin paring knife
you can also practice with utility/razor blade , its a lot faster/easier because they're so short and thin and sharp already and easy to grind
stefans video he sharpens 4-5 inch knife for 9min at a nice leisurely pace
a utility blade is ~2inches and only 1 inch or less exposed
you can sharpen the whole thing it on same stone in under a minute
 
^^My first Norton Economy stone actually came from the factory with some white spots in it (very similar to OP's picture, in that regard). Just some embedded impurities/junk left by manufacturing process, I assume. 'Carborundum', as the trademarked name for SiC, goes back about ~120 years or so, invented in 1895 originally. It's possible there might've been a wide variation in appearance of SiC stones over that time span.

This isn't to say it couldn't be an AlOx stone; just that the white spots wouldn't definitively ID it as such, especially in an inexpensively produced stone. I have three inexpensive AlOx stones, and the marked difference is in the color overall, which is much lighter (grey) as compared to the SiC stones. Depending on how old the OP's pictured stone is, or who made it, it may also have a different binder for the abrasive, which may affect it's color as well. With both in-hand, the AlOx stones are also noticeably heavier for their size, as compared to the SiC stones.

Per the earlier mention of how the SiC stones can gouge relatively easily, that's another difference over the AlOx stones, which tend to be much more resistant to gouging or shedding grit. The SiC stones also have a very 'glassy' ring to them, when tapped with something hard (knife blade, another stone, etc). I've found that sound to be unique to them; I have 7 SiC stones in various sizes from Home Depot (two 6" Norton Economy stones) and ACE (8", two 4" and two 3" pocket stones). The AlOx stones sound a bit 'duller' when tapped similarly.


David
 
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bucketstove said:
So true ... 1025170-Norton-Economy-Stone-feedback-from-manufacturer-re-abrasive-type says 15 years ago norton economy were made from alumox not sic :)

great tip about sound/noise if you tap on it, sic does seem to RING more
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They switched to SiC ('Crystolon', as they call it) in the Economy Stone in 2008, per a reply from them to an email I sent asking about that very question (as shown in the link you posted). I bought the first of mine about 2-3 years ago. When I'd bought mine, I'd noticed it was much darker in color than the AlOx stone pictured in their online catalog at the time. That's why I asked them to clarify what it was made of now, and they confirmed it was SiC.

Regarding the white(ish) looking spots on the OP's pictured stone, I'm looking at a couple of my SiC stones in various angles to the light. Depending on how the light plays on the stone, the normally glassy-looking SiC grains sometimes appear lighter colored or white, giving the stone sort of a 'salt & pepper' appearance.


David
 
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Thanks for the replies! I think I'll keep practicing with it. I've got a real cheapo Imperial knife that I've been practicing with. Yeah, I was pressing down harder than I probably should have, which leads to the arm fatigue. I have to learn to lighten up my touch. I'll be sure to check out the links and watch the videos. I appreciate it.

Since it is an oil stone, what kind of oil is recommended? My Smith's guide rod sharpener came with some honing solution, but that wouldn't be enough to coat the stone.
 
JayC783 said:
Thanks for the replies! I think I'll keep practicing with it. I've got a real cheapo Imperial knife that I've been practicing with. Yeah, I was pressing down harder than I probably should have, which leads to the arm fatigue. I have to learn to lighten up my touch. I'll be sure to check out the links and watch the videos. I appreciate it.

Since it is an oil stone, what kind of oil is recommended? My Smith's guide rod sharpener came with some honing solution, but that wouldn't be enough to coat the stone.
Click to expand...

Mineral oil is usually used on such stones. Can be found in many forms, like baby oil (w/scent added), or the 'laxative' mineral oil found at the pharmacy/drug store, or sewing machine or electric razor oil is also just mineral oil. For use on sharpening stones, Home Depot carries Norton's Sharpening Stone Oil, which is 100% mineral oil and also consider food/kitchen-safe (& completely odorless, which is nice). It works well, and is what I occasionally use on some of my SiC & Arkansas stones. I also sometimes use them dry or with dish soap & water (this is why I've collected multiple SiC & AlOx stones; some are 'reserved' for oiled use, and others get used dry or with soap & water).

The Smith's Honing Solution is a detergent-based mix I believe, and doesn't contain any mineral oil. I'm sure it'd work for these stones though. Since it's detergent-based, it may also be easier to clean up. The downside to using mineral oil is, it's pretty tedious to remove completely from well-oiled & long-used stones, if they get clogged over time. Most people resort to boiling the stones to remove as much of the old oil as possible. With older stones that've already been used with oil for a long time, it's probably better to just keep using it with oil. Water, or soap & water, will just tend to bead up and roll off of well-oiled stones.

Many SiC and AlOx stones, when NEW, are very, very porous and will drink up oil like you wouldn't believe. If your stone hasn't been used with oil before (it looks pretty clean in your pics), you might notice that. If yours has long been used with oil (or some stones come impregnated/filled with grease/oil), it might not suck up the oil as rapidly, and it may tend to pool on the surface instead (that's not a bad thing with oil stones, BTW).


David
 
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JayC783 said:
Thanks for the replies! I think I'll keep practicing with it. I've got a real cheapo Imperial knife that I've been practicing with. Yeah, I was pressing down harder than I probably should have, which leads to the arm fatigue. I have to learn to lighten up my touch. I'll be sure to check out the links and watch the videos. I appreciate it.

Since it is an oil stone, what kind of oil is recommended? My Smith's guide rod sharpener came with some honing solution, but that wouldn't be enough to coat the stone.
Click to expand...

I'd use mineral oil, the pharmacy grade stuff, if its already been used with oil. Even if it hasn't, the oil tends to (IMHO) get the best out of the stone. Use the absolute lightest pressure you can manage and still get good contact. Whether silicon carbide or AlumOx it will grind your Imperial like its not there as long as the stone isn't plugged or glazed - it doesn't look like its in bad shape.


Another video link with a norton econo stone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF2Y7Hha0MQ
 
Thanks guys. I don't think the stone has ever had any oil on it. If it did, it was many years ago. Maybe even decades ago. When I used it with water, the water soaked right in. I've got some Wahl clipper oil, so maybe I'll try some of that.

Would it hurt to use the stone dry? I'll likely use oil to get the most out of it, but I was just wondering if using this kind of stone dry hurts the stone or knife.

afishhunter said:
The grooves might be to sharpen fish hooks.
Click to expand...

I don't fish anymore, so I don't know anything about sharpening hooks, but that's a real interesting idea. I would try it if I had a fish hook laying around.
 
no it won't hurt the stone to use it dry,
it will just load the stone, clog the surface, and dull the stone,
more quickly than this happens with water or oil

this stops the stone from cutting/scratching/removing metal
and gets it to start burnishing/rubbing/polishing/shining your blades
so you have to scrub the stone to clean it,
and/or scrape/scratch/loosen some grit, to get it to cut steel again

but using the stone dry will produce some microscopic dust in the air ...
so if you're sharpening indoors,
just use water



if you still want to use it with oil,
first rub vaseline on the stone,
then hit vaseline with hairdryer so it melts a little into the stone,
then do same to the sides and bottom,
that way you don't have to soak 10oz ($1) of baby oil into it

i think hand sanitizer can do the same job (i kinda tested it),
once the alcohol evaporates it leaves a gummy residue which does the same thing,
clogs the pores of the stone, so the oil or water doesn't soak through


I'm sticking with water for now,
I've tried oil, I've spilled oil,
oil still leaks out of my stone,
if I spill water I don't have to clean it up
 
JayC783 said:
Thanks guys. I don't think the stone has ever had any oil on it. If it did, it was many years ago. Maybe even decades ago. When I used it with water, the water soaked right in. I've got some Wahl clipper oil, so maybe I'll try some of that.

Would it hurt to use the stone dry? I'll likely use oil to get the most out of it, but I was just wondering if using this kind of stone dry hurts the stone or knife.



I don't fish anymore, so I don't know anything about sharpening hooks, but that's a real interesting idea. I would try it if I had a fish hook laying around.
Click to expand...

If it is a SiC stone, they're more tolerant of some dry use. With mine, if I'm doing heavier grinding, such as for regrinding new bevels, I'll generally use it with oil; that minimizes loading of the stone with swarf and also keeps the 'dust' down. For light & occasional touching up to refine the edge, I prefer the feedback from a dry stone, and my fingers are better able to feel the condition of the edge when they're not oiled up from the stone.

If you do oil the stone, they clean up pretty well if you do it after each & every sharpening session. That'll minimize the chance of the stone getting gummed up & clogged over time. When I do oil mine a bit, I always wash & scrub them with dish soap & hot water afterwards, using an old toothbrush (I do this with ALL stones, BTW, oiled or not). Sometimes I'll also use some Simple Green cleaner for them, with water and scrubbing in the same manner; it's a good degreaser. So my stones still look clean & essentially 'new' almost indefinitely. The Simple Green also leaves them smelling very nice & 'fresh'. :)


David
 
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