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Can you say "BOWIE" ?
- Thread starter rfrink
- Start date
On the balisong forum, I believe we decided boo. I've always said bow, but who knows which is correct. I don't recall where the family was from originally (way back, before Louisiana), which might give us a clue as to pronunciation.
Jim Bowie's name was pronounced boo-ee. It's French. In fact his name was originally spelled 'Buie', but it is unclear when the change occured.
Jim's family was from the Scottish Highlands. From material i've seen and read about from the antebellum south, people of that time pronounced it boo-ee. But, it seems most people today, including historians of the period, pronounce it beau or bow-ee. I prefer boo-ee becase it sounds more sinister to me, and I believe it to be the correct annunciation.
regards,
David
Jim's family was from the Scottish Highlands. From material i've seen and read about from the antebellum south, people of that time pronounced it boo-ee. But, it seems most people today, including historians of the period, pronounce it beau or bow-ee. I prefer boo-ee becase it sounds more sinister to me, and I believe it to be the correct annunciation.
regards,
David
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2000
- Messages
- 615
All the people I consider to be experts on Bowie such as B.R. Hughes, Dr. James Batson, and J.R. Edmondson, pronounce the name Boo-ee.
As a side note, J.R. Edmondson is a former teacher, now writer, historian, and actor. He has portrayed Colonel James Bowie in four television productions. He also does living history presentations for schools and historical organizations. I had the honor of seeing him portray Bowie in the old schoolhouse at the historical site of Old Washington, Arkansas.
It was a shockingly realistic and believable performance. When he stood tall and proud and said in a booming voice, "They call me Jim Bowie", we all believed it! When you can get a room full of old country boy bladesmiths from Louisiana, Arkansas, Okalahoma, and Texas to cheer and give you a standing ovation, you've just put on one heck of a performance.
Sorry, I didn't mean to get off on a wild tangent there. I'm fascinated by the history surrounding the Bowie family (James in particular).
As a side note, J.R. Edmondson is a former teacher, now writer, historian, and actor. He has portrayed Colonel James Bowie in four television productions. He also does living history presentations for schools and historical organizations. I had the honor of seeing him portray Bowie in the old schoolhouse at the historical site of Old Washington, Arkansas.
It was a shockingly realistic and believable performance. When he stood tall and proud and said in a booming voice, "They call me Jim Bowie", we all believed it! When you can get a room full of old country boy bladesmiths from Louisiana, Arkansas, Okalahoma, and Texas to cheer and give you a standing ovation, you've just put on one heck of a performance.
Sorry, I didn't mean to get off on a wild tangent there. I'm fascinated by the history surrounding the Bowie family (James in particular).
RARANNEY said:
So you're saying Buie is originally Scottish, the spelling changed, and given a possibly French pronunciation? [end]
No, the source I have says that Buie is a French name. However, I have not been able to confirm it with any other source. I don't know anything about the Scottish language of that time period, and very little about the French language. That said, Buie doesn't 'sound' Scottish.
The scenario you suggested seems very logical. Somebody who has studied the Bowie family more than the little I have may know. From what I have gathered, people who have seriously studied the Bowie lineage haven't been able to trace it very far, if at all, past Jim's parents.
David
So you're saying Buie is originally Scottish, the spelling changed, and given a possibly French pronunciation? [end]
No, the source I have says that Buie is a French name. However, I have not been able to confirm it with any other source. I don't know anything about the Scottish language of that time period, and very little about the French language. That said, Buie doesn't 'sound' Scottish.
The scenario you suggested seems very logical. Somebody who has studied the Bowie family more than the little I have may know. From what I have gathered, people who have seriously studied the Bowie lineage haven't been able to trace it very far, if at all, past Jim's parents.
David
Drummer,
Thanks for the information, the transition from Scottish to French is interesting. "Boo" sounds French to me too, until one considers the word beau ("beauwie"), even though it may have no connection the the actual name. Then there's the issue of Cajun or pre Cajun French pronunciation. I believe your research as to the pronunciation during his time; it's interesting as to how it may have evolved. Given we don't really know what the sandbar fight/Alamo knife looked like or who made it, it's not surprising little is known of the family's early history.
Thanks for the information, the transition from Scottish to French is interesting. "Boo" sounds French to me too, until one considers the word beau ("beauwie"), even though it may have no connection the the actual name. Then there's the issue of Cajun or pre Cajun French pronunciation. I believe your research as to the pronunciation during his time; it's interesting as to how it may have evolved. Given we don't really know what the sandbar fight/Alamo knife looked like or who made it, it's not surprising little is known of the family's early history.
According to Merriam Webster ( http://www.m-w.com ) either way is correct. I went to the website and in the dictionary search typed in bowie. In the listing, there are two speakers that demonstrate both ways.
I've always heard people say boo-ie as well. (Yet for some reason I still prefer bow-ie.
Jamie
I've always heard people say boo-ie as well. (Yet for some reason I still prefer bow-ie.
Jamie
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2000
- Messages
- 362
As I recall from history, a great many Scots fled to France after some incident or another between them and the English. When they finally returned they took with them a number of things of French origen.
I'd be real interested to know when people began calling the bowie knife a bow-ee knife, assuming of course it had been called a boo-ee knife up until that point. I suspect that it was possibly the late 19th century or more likely the early twentieth century when there was a resurgence of interest in the bowie knife and people didn't know what to call it.
Based on what I have seen, the first bowie knife was probably something like the Edwin Forrest knfie. There are many tales about how the bowie supposedly came into being. They range from Jim's sword breaking to Rezin cutting his hand. But the stories supporting the hunting knife theory seem the most credible. We can only speculate about what Bowie had with him in the Alamo. By 1836 the bowie had already evolved quite a bit with many different makers trying to improve on it. The sharp clip point was well established, and Bowie being wealthy, and a knifefighter, would have probably wanted the best/ most current version of 'his' knife. I read somewhere one time about an eye witness saying Bowie had two knives at the Alamo, a big one and small one. I don't think anyone knows for sure.
regards,
David
Based on what I have seen, the first bowie knife was probably something like the Edwin Forrest knfie. There are many tales about how the bowie supposedly came into being. They range from Jim's sword breaking to Rezin cutting his hand. But the stories supporting the hunting knife theory seem the most credible. We can only speculate about what Bowie had with him in the Alamo. By 1836 the bowie had already evolved quite a bit with many different makers trying to improve on it. The sharp clip point was well established, and Bowie being wealthy, and a knifefighter, would have probably wanted the best/ most current version of 'his' knife. I read somewhere one time about an eye witness saying Bowie had two knives at the Alamo, a big one and small one. I don't think anyone knows for sure.
regards,
David
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2000
- Messages
- 615
RARanney,
Yes, the name Bowie is still prevalent in Louisiana. A quick check at http://www.whitepages.com/ unveiled more Bowie's in Louisiana than I care to go through. Many were in Alexandria (Rapides Parrish), which one of the places Bowie lived, but I have no idea how many might actually be related.
As a side note, thank you for the compliment on my website, and the temper lines. I will be redoing the entire site, removing all the old images, and replacing them with pics that reflect the kind of work I do now.
I plan to add several more articles and tutorials, one of which will cover how I do the bold temper lines. Do I even have any pics up yet with the temper lines? Looks like the server's down right now. I can't get connected.
----------------------
David,
I don't remember if I've ever read or heard of Bowie having more than one knife at the Alamo, but it does sound logical to me. It sounds like you've done some research on Bowie also. Do you have any good books you might recommend? I have the following:
Mr. Bowie with a Knife - A History of the Sandbar Fight
by J.R. Edmondson
Bowie Knife
by Raymond W. Thorp
Bowie - A Novel of the Life of Jim Bowie
by Randy Lee Eickhoff & Leonard C. Lewis
I almost didn't buy the third one. Being a novel, it's a fictional account which is based on known facts, and I didn't really want to muddy up the waters and confuse fact from fiction. But I finally bought it, and it is a good book.
Yes, the name Bowie is still prevalent in Louisiana. A quick check at http://www.whitepages.com/ unveiled more Bowie's in Louisiana than I care to go through. Many were in Alexandria (Rapides Parrish), which one of the places Bowie lived, but I have no idea how many might actually be related.
As a side note, thank you for the compliment on my website, and the temper lines. I will be redoing the entire site, removing all the old images, and replacing them with pics that reflect the kind of work I do now.
I plan to add several more articles and tutorials, one of which will cover how I do the bold temper lines. Do I even have any pics up yet with the temper lines? Looks like the server's down right now. I can't get connected.
----------------------
David,
I don't remember if I've ever read or heard of Bowie having more than one knife at the Alamo, but it does sound logical to me. It sounds like you've done some research on Bowie also. Do you have any good books you might recommend? I have the following:
Mr. Bowie with a Knife - A History of the Sandbar Fight
by J.R. Edmondson
Bowie Knife
by Raymond W. Thorp
Bowie - A Novel of the Life of Jim Bowie
by Randy Lee Eickhoff & Leonard C. Lewis
I almost didn't buy the third one. Being a novel, it's a fictional account which is based on known facts, and I didn't really want to muddy up the waters and confuse fact from fiction. But I finally bought it, and it is a good book.
Mr. Primos,
Thank you for that list of books. I have Thorp's book on order now, and hopefully will have it soon. I should have gotten it long ago, but didn't.
I haven't found any good books specifically on the bowie, but there are tons of good info on it and the people who used them in the antebellum south. Numerous travellors through the South wrote about their experiences and give us some insight about the time period. Fredrick Law Olmstead is one who comes to mind. His writings are published and available in many libraries. Other books on Southern violence and dueling contain good info., but it takes some digging. In my experience, the real info surrounding the bowie knife seems to be only availible a few pieces at a time. Luckily I live very near a university library.
Some of the better information I have found on the bowie knife and Bowie family are from scholarly journals. I'm sorry, I'm, away for the weekend, so I don't have access to my notes. But I'll give you what I can from memory. Some early 20th century history journals have articles on Bowie. Probably the best and apparently most accuracte author and bowie historian of this time period is J. Frank Dobie. I don't think he wrote any books, but he wrote a few articles on Bowie. I found a good one in particular that talked about Bowie's family and also critqued Thorp's inaccuracies in his book.
Another good source of info is newspapers and journals from 1830 to the Civil War. One publication I remember in particular is "Harper's Monthly." The problem with those is they require a library with a nice selection of old slides and it is very time consuming. I haven't had the time to search them at all.
When I get back I'll post some leads from my notes if you're interested. Or you can email me and I'll give you what I can. I've gotten much of my info. from a library, so I don't have hard copies of the info., just my notes. But i'm glad to help out anyway I can. It seems that research on Bowie and his knife has dwindled the last few years among serious historians, but I feel that there is more out there to learn.
You make beautiful knives by the way.
regards,
David
Thank you for that list of books. I have Thorp's book on order now, and hopefully will have it soon. I should have gotten it long ago, but didn't.
I haven't found any good books specifically on the bowie, but there are tons of good info on it and the people who used them in the antebellum south. Numerous travellors through the South wrote about their experiences and give us some insight about the time period. Fredrick Law Olmstead is one who comes to mind. His writings are published and available in many libraries. Other books on Southern violence and dueling contain good info., but it takes some digging. In my experience, the real info surrounding the bowie knife seems to be only availible a few pieces at a time. Luckily I live very near a university library.
Some of the better information I have found on the bowie knife and Bowie family are from scholarly journals. I'm sorry, I'm, away for the weekend, so I don't have access to my notes. But I'll give you what I can from memory. Some early 20th century history journals have articles on Bowie. Probably the best and apparently most accuracte author and bowie historian of this time period is J. Frank Dobie. I don't think he wrote any books, but he wrote a few articles on Bowie. I found a good one in particular that talked about Bowie's family and also critqued Thorp's inaccuracies in his book.
Another good source of info is newspapers and journals from 1830 to the Civil War. One publication I remember in particular is "Harper's Monthly." The problem with those is they require a library with a nice selection of old slides and it is very time consuming. I haven't had the time to search them at all.
When I get back I'll post some leads from my notes if you're interested. Or you can email me and I'll give you what I can. I've gotten much of my info. from a library, so I don't have hard copies of the info., just my notes. But i'm glad to help out anyway I can. It seems that research on Bowie and his knife has dwindled the last few years among serious historians, but I feel that there is more out there to learn.
You make beautiful knives by the way.
regards,
David
Of course there's an alternative pronounciation that's seldom if ever heard but which is more typical of Scots names of similar spelling: BOW (bough)-ee. (as in: The dog said BOW-WOW). I've known Scots people named Howie who pronounce it like that. (and that's no hoo-ie!)
Of course, a family that had a son named Reason and spelled it Rezin wouldn't necessarily be up on current Scots name styles. The 'French Connection' mentioned here is the first I've ever heard of.
Of course, a family that had a son named Reason and spelled it Rezin wouldn't necessarily be up on current Scots name styles. The 'French Connection' mentioned here is the first I've ever heard of.
This where did we/they come from gets interesting. PBS had a program on the other day that presented strong evidence that the Vikings (the Russe) were the early ancestors of the Russian Czars--possibly at the request of the people then living in what became Russia.