Carbon vs Stainless steel what is better?

J

jmcbang

Joined
Jun 19, 2000
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11
I'm fixing to buy a knive that is offered in both stainless steel and Carbon. What kind of difference will there be if any?
 
The major difference between a 'stainless' steel and a 'carbon' steel is the amount of chromium in the alloy. Stainless steels and carbon steels have a similar amount of carbon (0.6 to 2%) in the alloy, so the term 'carbon steel' really means Chromium Free. With a free chromium concentration of over 12%, the steel is Very resistant to oxidation (rusting) and corrosion and can be called 'stainless'. It will still oxidize given the right conditions and enough time.

However, some of us like the 'feel' of carbon steel edges. High chromium alloys tend to produce larger crystals in the steel matrix, which, although they may enhance edge holding and hardness, may also result in a relatively poorer edge. The finer the grain structure of the steel, the better the edge. The balance of properties in any knife steel is determined by the Heat Treatment (hardening and tempering are separate parts of heat treatment). This is often difficult to determine, especially in a production knife.

I personally prefer carbon steel knives (5160, 52100, 1095, 1084, W2, O1, etc). I just feel these steels make a better knife. But they require more care. Lots more care. Oil, wax, tough cloth, or the like is Required. And they will discolor and develop a patina over time. I think that is an interesting characteristic of a carbon steel knife. So for me, I'll take a carbon steel knife over a stainless knife Almost everytime.

There are some knife applications which are best served by 'stainless' steels. And many argue that modern stainless alloys, properly heat treated, offer working properties which are the equal, if not superior to the simple carbon steel alloys. Examples of these (sometimes called 'super steels') are 420V and BG-42. Stainless steels are not all the same. In the 440 series (440A, B, and C), the amount of carbon increases steadily. This produces more hard carbides (the stuff that cuts). 440C is a much better steel compared to 400A. Many manufacturers who only state that the steel is 'stainless' mean it is 440A. The most common carbon steel in production is 1095. I feel this alloy makes a much better blade than 440A steel.

It's a personal preference thing. There is NO BEST STEEL. Please looks at Joe Talmadge's excellent article and links about steel alloys in the FAQs section of this site: Steel FAQ

Paracelsus

[This message has been edited by Paracelsus (edited 08-07-2000).]
 
Please post more info!!!! If you are getting a jungle chopper, go get a carbon steel machete (or fork out the bucks ang call Ross Aki). IF you are getting a folder that isn't damascus, get stainless steel. Will you care for the knife? If you won't spend the time oiling it and such, get stainless. If you post more info about the knife and its intended uses, we can be more helpful.

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"Come What May..."
 
For moderately priced alloys a "carbon" steel will be a bit tougher (less likely to break) and easier to sharpen. If you use the blade hard in a single task (say, skinning an elk) the carbon steel knife may stay sharper longer). If you use the knife moderately for several tasks between sharpenings, corrosion might cause the carbon steel knife to get dull faster than the stainless blade.

Among the knives that come with stainless and carbon blades are knives by Cold Steel. The choice there is between Carbon V and AUS-8 stainless. Both of these alloys are relatively easy to get to razor sharpness. Carbon V is tougher and would be my pick, but I'd use AUS-8 if I was going to be working a lot in wet weather.
 
Given a choice, I always go with carbon steel. It's usually easier to sharpen, and usually holds an edge better. More often than not, carbon steel is also a whole lot tougher than the stainless steels. It however will rust easier, and definitely stain, too. A good in between steel is D2 Tool Steel; it is almost a stain less steel, but is still a carbon steel.
Keep all steels, especially carbon steels, oiled. Even the stainless ones will rust.
 
We meet again JMC!
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Now it's steel you want to know about, so let me see if I can make it easy for you.

There are two major components to steel... One is Carbon, and the other is Chromium. There are a few more, but these two are the most important when choosing. The other two important factors are, Edge holding, and ease of sharpening.

Now, your ATS, D2, 154CM, BG42, Will let you sharpen pretty much with ease, but will dull faster... On the other side of the coin there are the 440A, B, C, and V. These are going to be very hard, and next to imposible to put an edge on, but will hold that edge longer. I have to also mention that a high carbon blade will also take a little more maintenance, because they are apt to rust, and stain. I could give you the percentages of the components JMC, but it really doesn't matter, and I wouldn't want to bore you.

I will just say love to sharpen knives, so I love the high carbon blades. My two favorite steels are BG42, and 154CM.

I hope this wasn't to confusing JMC? Oh! here are the other components just in case you were wondering... Manganese, Phosphorus, Sulpher, Vanadium, and Molybdenum.

GOOD LUCK JMC!

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BC... For those who fought for it, Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know... Semper Fi

[This message has been edited by narruc1 (edited 08-08-2000).]
 
I thought I had a handle on this 'steel' stuff, but Now, I am soooo confused.

Thanks Narruc!
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Paracelsus, not necessarily in agreement with narruc (or anyone else for that matter)

[This message has been edited by Paracelsus (edited 08-08-2000).]
 
Para I think narruc1 is the one confused, not you. I also don't agree with him.
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narruc1:

your ATS, D2, 154CM, BG42, Will let you sharpen pretty much with ease, but will dull faster... On the other side of the coin there are the 440A, B, C, and V. These are going to be very hard, and next to imposible to put an edge on, but will hold that edge longer.
Click to expand...

This is interesting, I think that is the first time I have seen someone describe that viewpoint. It is based on experience with various blades or something you have read materials wise? Could you expand in more detail about what you based that conclusion on?

-Cliff
 
This is pretty interesting stuff!
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Hoodoo

And so, to all outdoor folks, the knife is the most important item of equipment.

Ellsworth Jaeger - Wildwood Wisdom

[This message has been edited by Hoodoo (edited 08-08-2000).]
 
Wow, I thought I was the only one here capable of such statements.

Narruc, soul brother, let's Tuff-coat our Talonite blades together some time!

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Glen
 
I think narruc1 has it backwards. From what I've heard, the 440 steels are the softer, weaker, more stainless ones and the ATS ect, steels are tougher, higher carbon content steels.
 
ATS easy to sharpen??? I have a EDI Genesis 2 and the only thing that sharpens it, including a belt sander is a ceramic rod. O-1 and A-2 and 1095 I can sharpen very easily. 440A hard?? I have a bunch of UC 420J2 and 440a stuff and sharpen all sorts of knives for people. they are incredibly soft and easy to sharpen, but dont hold their edge worth spit. As for carbon vs stainless....go with the carbon. it needs a little more TLC, but is much easier to sharpen and better in the long run. Tool steels, like A-2 and D-2 kick!
 
Narruc just threw me into a loop.I guess everything I ever learned about steel was backwards. Boy am I glad this got straightened out. Time to go try and sharpen one of my United Cutlery knives to a razor edge although I suspect it will take me the better part of the day.
Bob
 
I just noticed that narruc mentioned about 440V, and I think that was where some of the confusion came. 440V was a CPM product (hey what do they call it now?), and considerably better than 440A, B, or C.

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Reynaert
 
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