Review Carothers Performance Knives Medium Chopper

abbydaddy

abbydaddy

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As per usual, this review is essentially identical to the one on my personal blog. The only difference is that there are more functioning links in the original on my blog (if you want, you can view the original here), but since the idea is not to use BladeForums as a way to get people to go to my own site I try to make sure that everything important is available here.


The Carothers Performance Knives Medium Chopper (.190-.200 thickness prototype) with Ebonite handles.


Introduction:

A year ago I reviewed the Carothers Performance Knives (CPK) Light Chopper, today I get to review the successor to that knife, the CPK Medium Chopper (MC). The particular MC that I reviewed is a prototype of slightly thinner stock than the production MC. This knife also had handles of a material that I had no prior experience with, Ebonite. As it turns out, I think Ebonite is my new favorite material for chopper handles, but we will get to that later.

As the successor to the now-discontinued Light Chopper (LC), the MC had big shoes to fill. I absolutely adore my Light Chopper. I cannot say that the MC made me want to get rid of my LC, but I do think that for many people's uses, the MC is probably a better fit. While the differences are subtle, they are significant, and the MC is a very different knife in use than the LC. Once or twice a week I clear brush as a part time job. My main uses for a chopper are trimming up branches for burn piles, or clearing out light undergrowth. When I use a chopper it is usually either one or two chops, or sustained chopping for hours. When it comes to single chops, the MC is absolutely the superior knife, but when it comes to swinging the knife for hours, the added couple ounces (3.5 oz for the production model, though probably more like 2.5 oz for my prototype) really makes itself felt. The MC bites deeper on most every given swing, and the handle ergonomics are definitely improved (something I would not have thought possible), but the extra weight (slight though it is) contributes to muscle fatigue over time.

(Edit/Correction: it was pointed out to me that technically there are no true "production MC's" in the wild yet. To this point they have all been prototypes, but it does seem that CPK has settled down on something fairly close to their more regular prototypes, but that could change. As of the writing of this review, the regular production MC's have not been released, so treat future references to production MC's as referring to the expected future model.)

To summarize my comparative impression between the MC and the LC: if you have 50 chopping tasks, the MC is absolutely going to be your better choice; if you have 200 chopping tasks, the extra weight is really going to tell and you'd probably be better off with the LC.

The knife is made by Carothers Performance Knives, which is headed by Nathan Carothers (and his wife Jo). Nathan Carothers is a very experienced machinist, with a vast materials knowledge, as well as a truly impressive capability at using CNC machining. He is also very willing to share his knowledge, I have learned a lot over the few years paying attention to Carothers (Here is a BladeForums thread of people asking Nathan questions and him answering, it is educational and up to 92 pages long as of the writing of this post). CPK is an exciting brand to pay attention to, but at the current time demand is far exceeding their production capability which makes it hard to get a lot of CPK knives. Sales for many of the models literally sell out in under 5 seconds, which means that buying a CPK knife can be tricky and leave you with no option but heading to the secondary market where prices can vary. However, CPK has been working hard at upping their production capacity, and recently there were some sales of their HDFK model (I've also reviewed that one) that lasted for multiple minutes. That might not seem like much, but it is a good sign for people wanting to get their hands on one of these knives.

Personally, I can't complain, since the high demand for these knives is a big part of the reason that I can afford to buy, try, and then sell these knives without too much loss on my part. I buy almost all of the knives that I review for this blog, and I have not monetized this blog, so this is really a hobby for me. As a hobby, I can't afford unlimited knives, so the high demand for CPK's outstanding knives means that I can test and experience some of the finest cutlery on the market.

The knife was designed in cooperation with Lorien Arnold, a talented knife designer from British Columbia, Canada. Lorien cooperates with numerous knife makers, but has been partnering extensively with CPK recently. Sadly I can't afford the custom knives he designs, but I am a fan nonetheless. Just to give an example, here is a thread on the Dragon Boat that Lorien designed a while back. I think it is one of the most amazing knife designs I have ever seen, so I thought I would give it a plug.

The TL;DR review summary:

The CPK Medium Chopper is a worthy successor to the Light Chopper. The knife bites deeper on every chop, and the handle feels better and more secure in the hand during every type of use I put the knife to. My only complaint is that the extra weight of the MC increases fatigue during sustained use, as compared with the LC.


Lorien Arnold's design logo


The Carothers Performance Knives logo
 
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Let's Start With the Specs:
Specs:
  • CPM 3V, Delta heat treat, tested 60-61 HRC, .180 - .215" thick at ricasso
  • Total length 15.950"
  • Blade length 10.0"
  • Weight varies in the prototypes. Standard weight is 20.6 oz
  • Grippy 3D machined scales in micarta and Terotuf.
  • Black oxide treated 18-8 stainless steel fasteners
  • Ebonite scales with oversize natural color titanium fasteners
The "Medium" in Medium Chopper refers to the knife being intermediate in weight between the CPK Light Chopper and the CPK Heavy Chopper. There is also a CPK Behemoth Chopper (review forthcoming), but that knife doesn't factor into the MC's name. Of course, at this point, the Light Chopper is discontinued, and the Heavy Chopper has not been produced in large numbers to my knowledge, so the name Medium Chopper might seem odd if you aren't familiar with the other models. The MC, while heavier than the LC, still weighs in at well under a pound and a half, which keeps it packable and light enough for sustained use.

The handle material for this prototype is Ebonite. Ebonite is a highly vulcanized hard natural rubber. The hardness is more like what one would expect from a modern composite, rather than feeling superficially rubbery. Ebonite was developed as a replacement for natural ebony wood in the 1830's. The original idea was that it would be useful for making musical instruments, and indeed it is still used in some instruments. In the early 20th century Ebonite was commonly used in bowling balls. Today a lot of the uses that Ebonite used to be used for have been superseded by modern plastics and composites (Ebonite is the reason why black is the common default for auto battery exteriors). As a natural rubber, Ebonite has a very slight odor. Also, Ebonite is susceptible to degradation from light over time. Ebonite is also more brittle than materials like TeroTuf or Micarta. In general, Ebonite is a more demanding and less forgiving material than other potential handle materials. But in this reviewer's opinion, those qualities are more than made up for by the feeling of the material in hand, the performance of the material in use, and the appearance. Ebonite was not made for use with chopping knives, but it is truly excellent for that purpose.

The blade material on this knife is CPK's proprietary heat treat of CPM 3V, known as Delta 3V (D3V). Regarding 3V in general, CPM 3V is a particle super steel, it is made with science magic. I'm not going to try to explain all of the specifics because I am not a metallurgist and blade steel is a surprisingly complicated topic. There is no one perfect steel for every knife. Each steel type has its own set of properties, and the choice of which properties are important to a knife is a key decision for knife makers. Additionally, the properties of various steels are affected by heat treatment (the ways that the metal is heated and cooled to control hardness) and heat treatment can even affect the crystalline structure of the steel and the ways that the compounds in the steel combine. So for the purposes of my reviews, science magic.

That said, I think it is worthwhile to discuss the characteristics of CPM 3V a little. CPM 3V is not a stainless steel, though it does contain 7.5% chromium, which provides more stain resistance than one might expect from a carbon steel. In terms of edge holding properties at the hardness used for most knives, CPM 3V is very comparable to CPM S35VN (which is the stainless particle steel the Difensa is made of). The biggest difference between 3V and S35VN (besides rust resistance) is toughness. 3V is roughly 3 times as impact resistant as S35VN. It is a very tough steel, appropriate for a knife intended for rough applications. CPM 3V is very, very tough, not stainless, and holds an edge well.

D3V is really an exceptional heat treat of an already outstanding steel. Nathan Carothers (AKA Nathan The Machinist on BladeForums) developed his proprietary heat treat of 3V that provides a pretty unbeatable combination of hardness, toughness, lateral strength, resilience, edge retention, and as an added bonus the heat treat leaves a higher percentage of free chromium in the steel matrix which makes D3V almost-but-not-quite-stainless. Standard 3V is an excellent steel, D3V elevates that steel to a level that is unmatched in my experience for a heavy use knife (Busse knives uses a proprietary steel called INFI which is generally considered the industry standard for heavy use knives, but I have never used an INFI knife myself).


LC on the left, MC on the Right. The MC is longer and the stock is noticeably thicker on the MC. This view particularly shows the increased length thanks to the subtle differences in blade and handle shape.


When you view the LC and MC in this view the differences seem much less pronounced, and the common design heritage is more apparent.

A Note on the Sheath:

This knife did not come with a sheath. As a prototype of a non-standard thickness the standard kydex sheaths that CPK sells with the knives do not fit properly. I chose not to commission a custom sheath for the two weeks I spent with this knife. Fortunately I did have a large Pakistani made Bowie knife whose sheath turned out to work quite well. The sheath was of a drop loop design, and in person I have to say that the black leather really worked well with the Ebonite handle. If you are looking for a sheath for an Ebonite handled knife, I recommend black leather.


I am awfully glad that I had a sheath that worked for this knife. An LC sheath absolutely does not fit the MC.
 
Review:
Steel:

What else can I say about this steel? In the past I have simply referred to CPM (Crucible Particle Metallurgy) steels "science magic steels." The steel is literally made by turning the molten metal into powder and squishing it back together (if you want more info you can find it here). I would call D3V an enhanced science magic steel. The CPM magic is enhanced with Nathan Carothers' metallurgical knowledge and experimentation. I have a hard time imagining a better metal for this knife.

I have used a number of knives with D3V steel at this point, and the material has proven to be frankly unmatched in my experience. For certain uses I would still prefer a truly stainless steel, but I have had zero trouble with rust or corrosion on my LC over the past year. For a high impact, rough use steel, D3V just flat out performs. My LC has (accidentally) gone through a few nails over the past year, and has seen many hours of work. The edge could still be mostly brought back to shaving sharpness with just a butcher's steel. In fact, it was only for this review that I actually sharpened the LC again for the first time since I bought it. And even then I only refined the edge with an Arkansas Stone to make sure the comparisons with the MC were good. I did not need to do a major resharpening even after a year of significant use.


The CPK MC, as reviewed, is certainly a lovely knife. The design is truly impressive from both an aesthetic and performance perspective, and the materials are just outstanding.

Blade Finish:

The blade finish for this knife was an acid etched stonewash. I have written before about how much I like stonewashed finishes in general, but this was actually my first time ever using a knife with an acid etched finish. While the initial appearance was lovely, I was not a fan. The acid etch looks lovely as long as you don't use it, but the etch is a result of the reactivity of the metal. That means that it is very easy to take off that very thin layer of etched metal. Even trying to completely avoid abrasive cleaning supplies, this finish was impossible to avoid negatively affecting during use. This wouldn't be a big issue on a knife that I was going to keep and use long term, but considering that I was looking to turn around and sell the knife after my review it caused me a bit of extra stress.


The finish may be delicate, but it sure is lovely when new.

Blade:

The blade on the MC is very purposefully designed. The blade is 10 inches long, so this is a big knife. The blade is not designed for stabbing or to be a kitchen knife, it is designed for chopping, and it excels at the intended function.

Despite the large blade, the weight distribution is well balanced toward the handle. This is a result of careful weight distribution between the ways that the handle is partially skeletonized and the blade is fullered. Choppers are usually more blade heavy. The MC certainly feels less nimble in the hand than the LC, but it is still no wrist breaking brute force cleaver. The MC is an agile knife that uses carefully balance weight and geometry to allow the user to create significant tip speed while maintaining control.

Handle:

The handle on this knife was utterly magnificent. As mush as I love my LC, the MC handle is definitely improved. The slightly more pronounced swell at the butt of the handle provided a noticeably more secure grip without forcing my hand. There were other very subtle tweaks as well. The sum total was a new handle design that took a handle design I had considered perfect, and made it better.

But even more than the handle design, I want to talk about the material. First off, the Ebonite material is lovely, aesthetically speaking. The black is rich and glossy, but even with a fairly shiny finish, the material is not slippery. The Ebonite was less grippy than Micarta or TeroTuf, but still satisfyingly secure in the hand. The hardness feels very similar to wood. Wood is my favorite handle material in terms of tactile sensation, but typically I opt for man-made materials when looking for optimal performance. Ebonite offers a similar feel to wood, but with many of the advantages of more modern materials (Ebonite, as discussed earlier, also has more weaknesses than Micarta or TeroTuf, but in this application I think those weaknesses are pardonable).

But the biggest thing about the Ebonite is the performance during sustained use. When I started using the MC, I didn't feel any difference at first. Nathan had stated that the material lessened vibration, but I couldn't feel it. After a few hours of use I could feel the difference. Typically during sustained use of the LC it is my grip and hand/wrist joints that give out first. With the MC, even after hours of use and shoulder/arm muscles that were mightily fatigued, my wrist, hand, and elbow joints all felt surprisingly good. The Ebonite significantly reduced the joint pain I typically experience after a day of intense chopping.

In the future, whenever CPK offers Ebonite as an option on a chopper, I will take the Ebonite. I am a big fan.


This is a big and lovely knife.


Just remember, I have big (extra-large, size 10 1/2-11) hands. This knife has a generous handle, and the angle makes the blade look shorter. Objects in my hand are generally larger than they appear.


The MC really bites deep.

Fit and Finish:

As with every CPK knife I have ever held or observed in person, the fit and finish was second-to-none. CPK uses more extensive CNC milling and programmed manufacturing techniques than most knife makers, and the result is a precision that meets the kind of robotic flawlessness that one would imagine comes from such an approach. As I have learned over the years, even very competent machinists using computer drafting methods and CNC milling have a hard time actually producing knives that feel flawless. Nathan has a great deal of experience and expertise as a machinist, and it really shows in the products that CPK sells.
 
Use Review:

For my use review of the MC I focused mainly on chopping tasks. For the most part, the blade geometries and handle rake are similar enough to the LC that you can pretty much take it as a given that anything the LC did well, the MC does at least as well. Much like the LC, I am not really sold on it as an all around camp knife. It can cut vegetables and such, but that isn't really where it shines.

The first (and most surprising thing to me) note I want to point out is that I found the extra weight to be a complete non-issue for carrying it. I guess it really is only a few ounces, but I expected the MC to pull my pants down more. As someone with a more than ample belly, I really don't like things that pull down my pants any more than they have to. I expected the MC to annoy me during sustained carry while working and moving about. It proved to feel no different or more clunky than the LC. I would be perfectly happy to carry the MC on a hike, hunt, or at work.


Both the LC and the MC bit about the same depth, but as you can see the MC bit a much longer bite. The total amount of the knife buried in the round was significantly greater.


I really enjoyed this shot, even if it isn't terribly clear. Each knife is sequentially a more effective chopper. The Spartan Harsey Difensa, the Spartan Harsey Model 1, the CPK LC, and the CPK MC. Each knife bites deeper and more effectively than the last. Since I compare pretty much everything to the Difensa (and the Difensa is the knife that convinced me that a knife that can do some chopping is worth carrying), I wanted to get a graduated comparison. When I first started really being sold on the idea of carrying a lightweight smaller chopper for work I decided to graduate from the Difensa to the Spartan Harsey Model I (it is an inch longer and much more capable chopper). I enjoyed the Model I, but then I managed to land my LC just a few months later, and since that time the LC has been the only belt knife I've carried at work. I appreciated that each knife, with as close to equal force as I could manage, out-performed the previous knife as a chopper.


I really don't have any practical use for stabbing things, but I figure it is worth checking out anyway, just for reference. The MC's tip shape seemed to keep it from penetrating quite as deep as the LC, but neither one is a stabbing tool. Both the Spartan knives stabbed deeper, but they are designed to. I didn't stab any of them hard into the wood.


With a pretty casual swing it is fairly easy to almost sink the blade up to the edge of the main bevel.

I decided to try something new for this review, so I made some videos of myself actually using the MC to chop down some small trees. I also used the LC to chop one down as a comparison. I feel very self conscious posting videos of myself. I want to excuse my chopping by pointing out that these trees were standing dry and I had split logs for an hour and a half before I filmed these, but honestly, I had plenty of rest between activities, and this is just my chopping for whatever it's worth.

Chopping down trees is not my normal use for a belt carried chopper, but it is FUN! And more to the point, I have a very hard time filming myself using the chopper normally with my cell phone. Tree chopping is stationary work. The trees I chopped down here are basically dead saplings in a wood lot. They are just dry fuel where they were, so taking them out just clears up the understory. As you can see, the trees are tightly packed enough that none of them actually fall when I cut them down, they all catch in the branches of their neighbors.




The MC in the stump of the first tree.

My first try at filming myself chopping a tree with the MC. Please excuse the quality, and the fact that I spend most of the video chopping on the opposite side of the viewer.




The MC in the stump of the second tree.

Second try, better angle, worse lighting.




The LC in the stump of the tree.

And finally, for comparison, the LC. This video is probably the clearest. It should be pretty clear that the the LC does not bite as deep on a given swing as the MC. The direct comparison felt pretty pronounced to me.

I did not bother doing much in the way of edge retention tests (like cutting ropes or cardboard boxes). I have a great deal of experience with this steel, with this heat treatment, with similar edge geometry, from the same manufacturer. The performance of D3V has been outstanding in my experience. I did not need to have D3V prove itself to me yet again considering that I was mostly just concerned with performance during chopping tasks. At the end of the review the blade was still shaving sharp.

Of course, I did have to do some kitchen work. The knife worked like you would expect a well made and extremely sharp chopper to work. It cut things fine, but I am not going to replace any of my kitchen knives with it.


Is it a review of a "camp knife" if you don't do food prep? I don't think so. This was the only picture I remembered to snap though.
 
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Summary:

I personally wish that CPK had opted to keep producing a model closer to the LC, but I have to acknowledge that for most people's uses, the MC is going to perform better for almost every task. It is a more effective chopper. But for my purposes (mostly chopping thin branches and undergrowth), the MC feels more akin to using a framing hammer for building bird houses. Sure, the framing hammer hits the nails harder, but if you are swinging it all day those extra ounces add up.

But that said, my chopper needs are not likely to be the average chopper buyer's needs. For most people who buy a high end chopper like one of these, it is not for truly practical needs, it is to have a fun high performance specialty tool. It is about having fun chopping things. And for that sort of use, the MC is an improvement on the LC. Like I said in the introduction, if you need to cut 50 things, the Medium Chopper is the way to go, if you need to chop 200 things, the Light Chopper is going to be your friend. If you are in the enviable position where you can pick and choose between the choppers, you might have some thinking to do. My heart still lies with the LC, but that is both a product of my particular needs and a long time spent with that tool. But regardless of your choice, these knives are sheer pleasure to use.

The Medium Chopper is another excellent collaboration between Carothers Performance Knives and Lorien Arnold. In pretty much every measurable way (other than weight) it is an improvement on the Light Chopper. It bites deeper. The grip is improved and more secure in the hand. The changed blade shape gives you more edge where the swing is most powerful. The increased length gives you a little more tip speed. If you can get one, I recommend it... with Ebonite if you can swing it.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------





For now I will leave you with a little sneak peak of an upcoming review:


Here is a nice Carothers Performance Knives family picture. From top to bottom: The Behemoth Chopper, the Medium Chopper, and the Light Chopper.
 
Excellent review abbydaddy! Very thorough with your insights and videos. Thank you for a great review on a great knife! I plan to do an extensive-use review of my Behemoth Chopper soon, probably not as in-depth as this one, but it will have pictures and thoughts! Thanks again!
 
Oh man. That tree chop made me want to give you an axe. ;). That’s a perfect example of why I’ve never understood the whole chopper craze. For me, a blade like that is great for controlled batoning, making kindling and such. Beyond that, I just see other tools as better choices. I get the cool factor and one tool option thing though.

Thanks for the review. You put some work into that. :thumbsup:
 
Nice Review Abbydaddy:thumbsup:Thanks! The Key word in this review is (Chopper) and I Prefer the MC over the LC for this very reason! However, I am sure a New and Improved version of the LC with be forthcoming-(Possibly after the MC Pre-order has been fulfilled)?


Thanks again
 
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mb> said:
Oh man. That tree chop made me want to give you an axe. ;). That’s a perfect example of why I’ve never understood the whole chopper craze. For me, a blade like that is great for controlled batoning, making kindling and such. Beyond that, I just see other tools as better choices. I get the cool factor and one tool option thing though.

Thanks for the review. You put some work into that. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

I certainly do prefer using an axe to fell a tree. Not least because then I can stand up and use my whole body. But it can be handy to be able to take out a sapling with a knife you have on you while using a whacker or pruner. Axes are a lot to carry on your belt, unless you are talking hatchet, and for undergrowth I would rather have a chopper/machete than a hatchet. And the chopper is less annoying than the machete.
 
abbydaddy said:
Axes are a lot to carry on your belt, unless you are talking hatchet, and for undergrowth I would rather have a chopper/machete than a hatchet. And the chopper is less annoying than the machete.
Click to expand...

That's an interesting comment. I would have guessed a machete would be better for undergrowth, at least in terms of grip fatigue and long hours of swinging, similar to your light vs medium weight comments. I could see the chopper being more pleasing and efficient for the thick stuff though. Guess it depends on what your local undergrowth is like.

I've only used a Junglas for that type of duty, and it wore my grip/forearm out. MUCH more crudely shaped handle on the Junglas though...no comparison with a contoured CPK for sure.
 
I love my light chopper, it's a very versatile tool for all kinds of green vegetation. Less effective for dry hard wood but that's what a saw or axe is for. The LC is great because it has the speed to cut tall grass and weeds but also hits hard enough for branches and small trees while remaining easy to carry.
 
mb> said:
That's an interesting comment. I would have guessed a machete would be better for undergrowth, at least in terms of grip fatigue and long hours of swinging, similar to your light vs medium weight comments. I could see the chopper being more pleasing and efficient for the thick stuff though. Guess it depends on what your local undergrowth is like.

I've only used a Junglas for that type of duty, and it wore my grip/forearm out. MUCH more crudely shaped handle on the Junglas though...no comparison with a contoured CPK for sure.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the LC and MC are both lighter than my full size machetes, and much more compact. They don't bang around near as much while on the move.

Also, my undergrowth is generally either woody or blackberries. I'm not dealing with a lot of softer vegetation with the chopper. I use a weed whacked for that stuff. The choppers are good for carrying while using other tools.

The well designed handles really make a huge difference in fatigue.
 
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barrabas74 said:
How do you purchase one of there knives?
Click to expand...

That is not a simple question unfortunately. The most straightforward, and most difficult, method is to participate in the regular sales. If you follow this thread https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/the-next-sale.1405869/ you will be notified of each upcoming sale, and where to make the purchase. The locations are usually either the Carothers Performance Knives sub forum for irregular/new models and the the main exchange for regular production models. The challenge with these sales is that all available knives are usually claimed within a couple seconds, so you need good internet and fast reflexes.

Another option is to ask if someone will proxy for you in one of the sales. There is a thread here https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/sale-proxy-requests.1564977/ for asking if anyone will proxy for you. There are some folks who have good records when it comes to landing a knife in the regular sales, and often they are willing to help new folks out.

The other alternative is to look around on the secondary market. This usually means a substantial increase in price, but it is usually easier to land one that way. There is a Buy/Sell/Trade thread here https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/the-cpk-buy-sell-and-trade-thread-open-to-everybody.1454027/ . You can post a want to buy notice there to see if someone is willing to sell you a knife. Other than that there are CPK knives that go up for sale by individuals on the main exchange, and if you search around there are ones that pop up on some non-forum-supporting independent sites.

I have personally landed all of mine via the regular sales or the buy/sell/trade thread.
 
TommyGun56 said:
Nice Review Abbydaddy:thumbsup:Thanks! The Key word in this review is (Chopper) and I Prefer the MC over the LC for this very reason! However, I am sure a New and Improved version of the LC with be forthcoming-(Possibly after the MC Pre-order has been fulfilled)?


Thanks again
Click to expand...

That is certainly fair. I tend to place more value on the "light" portion, but you are right that when the emphasis is on "chopper" the MC wins.
 
Very nice, your first photo stopped me cold at first, then I looked closer, at a glance it looks like a big chunk was taken out of the edge, but it is just a booger or something next to the blade... ;)
G2
 
that is quite a review! Nice work dude:thumbsup:
 
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