Ceramic Kiln or Burnout Furnace for HT?

Blaster-6

Blaster-6

Knife Engraver / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Nov 2, 2015
Messages
107
Anyone use a ceramic kiln or jewelers burnout furnace for HT? I've been offered a small jewelers burnout furnace for free and from the specs I've been given looks like it's heat up to 2000F/1100c - the internal size is about 6"x6"x5" not very big - I haven't seen it yet, picking up this weekend. I've been doing a lot of reading on the PID controlled builds people have been doing, but I'm not at that financial junction to purchase and create an advanced build. I've also seen some used larger kilns on local websites for under $100 that might be viable - if for nothing else to use the body as a shell and then create my own custom control set up? Possibly use the body and shell then create new burners and change it to propane fired? Gas versus electric? Any thoughts on these?
Thx.
 
Last edited:
I used my jewelers burnout kiln for a good while. It will HT carbon steel in the 1450-1650F range, but the 2000F top end is usually a fantasy. It will take too long to reach that hot ... if it ever gets there.

A ceramic kiln isn't really a good HT kiln. It will work, but there are trade-offs and modifications needed.
 
Roger that. I figure for free it'll need some TLC but it's got potential. I'll post some pics if it appears worthwhile, see if I can fire it up and get a temp reading, maybe you can suggest some mods. Thanks!
 
It is easy to convert an old burnout oven to PID control, BTW. Use the info in the sticky about converting a toaster oven and just plug the burnout oven in, instead.
 
Just picked this up. Free is always good. It's a Rey Burnout Furnace model E14. It's got about a 13"x12"x maybe 10"h interior dimension. I need to swap out plugs this week but everything looks in working order, coils don't look too bad either. Last owner never used it, it supposedly worked when they got it. Only visible flaw I see is the bricks in the door aren't solid as the door seems to flex a bit when opening. Nothing big though. I've read up on pid controls, big question, should I get a cheaper MyPin t4 series from eBay or go with a more expensive Aubins pid?? Heard some have trouble with programming the cheaper ones? The build seems straight forward.

ac8f9740a1efdf43d1bdb8985c6385e0.jpg

e484ed67ee6c01952e61baf37405b3f5.jpg

0976d0d0f4b43f6605c28e3f7b205595.jpg

cc00ca488ab2e05bbf1a4740d6716df7.jpg

38d97ccdb1f335c7597b70c7192d9e98.jpg


View attachment 647670
View attachment 647671
View attachment 647672
View attachment 647673
View attachment 647674
 
Last edited:
It depends on what you are looking to treat. If it doesn't need ramp/soak, going with the cheap controller is not a problem, as long as you can program it. A search for "jconn inv pid manual" is worthwhile if you are looking at the Mypin TA4.

There are a couple of pieces of advice I'd give to anyone buying any PID controller.

1/ Download and read the manual before you even shortlist a controller. If you cannot download the manual, pass. If you cannot make sense of the manual, pass.

Unless you are an industrial process engineer or instrumentation technician, the chances are you'll not understand everything in the manual, particularly if it is for a high-end controller. You do need to get most of it though. If you then have a specific problem, you can ask for help on this or another forum, linking to the manual, with a fair chance of someone who knows more about controllers than you do being able to offer some help. Without the manual, there's no chance.

If you feel you are likely to need telephone support and you are able to access it, it is well worth paying the extra for a controller from someone like Auber, Omega or AutomationDirect. Bear in mind that you really need to be in front of the controller while you are talking to technical support, so check their working hours are compatible with your lifestyle before buying.


2/ Use a 1/16th DIN (48 x 48mm: just under 2" x 2") controller whenever possible (they usually offer most bang for the buck) and leave enough extra length on the wiring to allow you to change out the controller at a later date. The positions of the terminals vary between controllers, as does the depth behind the mounting face, and an extra 3" or so of wire means that it will reach if you decide to upgrade in the future.
 
That is a good oven. Those were REAL burnout kilns - 240 volts at 16 amps - and have 3150 watts of power. It will likely do stainless HT with some slight regime modifications. The only drawback is they heat up a bit slow.

Just use the cheap PIDs from eBay if it will be used for carbon steel. If you want to do stainless steel, a programmable PID is needed.

Run a pair of SSRs, or two legs of a three phase SSR ( those are really cheap). Use 40 amp units. Get a new 10 gauge TC and replace the old one. Use a TC block to connect the TC to the PID with type K TC wire. EBay has TC, block, and wire combos that are perfect. Connect the SSR to a 240 volt plug that matches the oven and plug the oven intro it, or just hardwire the oven to the SSRs. The sticky on converting a toaster oven is the same, and there are many threads on the subject. If you aren't sure, PM me.
 
TimmGun -- Thanks for the advice. Makes a lot of sense. I think I may start with the lower cost MyPin TA4, 1/16 DIN, there seems to be a lot of info out there from a variety of groups with this unit. I read the JConn manual you linked, I think if I can wire it up right it'll take some hands on practice to bracket the settings in to get it to "think" correctly -- I think I can do this... At this point I'm shaping old annealed files for practice but will focus with 1084 once my confidence and skills are up. If this works I can transfer the TA4 to a tempering oven if I choose to run a ramp/soak programmable one later.

Stacy -- Awesome, good to know I've got a good unit. Lucky find! Excited at the prospect of building this thing up. I vaccumed it out and cleaned out the coil pockets, and though I don't have a lot of experience with these, the coils look and feel like they are in decent shape (no rust, pliable, look and feel solid from front to back). I've got to adapt my 30 amp wall socket to this 20 amp plug then I'll be able to fire her up and run a functions test.

I've studied your stickies and the other related posts, I think this will be doable. A longer TC might be best to measure in the middle of the furnace? Only question on the front of my mind is wiring in the dual SSRs for 220 to the oven while getting 110 to the PID. I think I know what I need to do but once I gather my parts and lay everything out I may run a wiring diagram up the flag pole.

So parts list-- PID, K type TC up to 2000F/1100C, 2-40 amp SSRs, heat sink, small fan, project box
Anything I'm missing?

Thanks y'all!
Matt
 
The power to the PID comes off one leg of the 220 referenced to the neutral. The SSRs can be two units with separate heat sinks, but the 3 phase units are cheaper and often have built in heat sinks. Just use two of the legs. You can use the third leg to turn on and off a "HEAT" indicator light ( jumper its 110VAC power from the adjacent leg). The voltage doesn't matter nor does the phase ... it is just a solid state three pole single throw switch. If you have any questions, I will elaborate or make a drawing.

Here is a three phase SSR and sink that are perfect:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hot-Sale-El...589696?hash=item2355844f00:g:zJAAAOSwaZdXIf7p

I would add a fuse and main power switch to your list. A green "ON" and a red indicator "HEAT" lamp are also good ideas. they should be 110 VAC.

A small limit switch in the DC line to the SSRs is a good idea. Install it so it opens when the door is opened. That kills the power to the coils when putting things in and out of the oven.
Something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10Pc-Microw...924742?hash=item58d4c6ddc6:g:Qc4AAOSwL7VWodgo


BTW, if the cracks in the door bother you, seal them with some thin satanite. They didn't look that bad to me.
 
Last edited:
I've got my shopping list put together. Going to go with the 2 40A SSRs, little cheaper than the 3ph SSR. Amazon prices seem to be comparable to eBay and with a Prime membership it all ships free and fast. Thx!
 
Last edited:
here is a good source for K thermocouples http://www.mcmaster.com/#thermocouples/=13a2i61 they are rated to 2300F and have ceramic insulators protecting the thermocouple wire. the insulators are in 2" sections so you can gently bend the sensor however you need. here is a 25A 3 phase SSR http://www.ebay.com/itm/272018480388?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT here is an inexpensive thermocouple display that goes to 2375F and can display two sensors http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-Two-Ch...340815?hash=item48886ab8cf:g:qm8AAOSwJkJWl-f3. here are themocouple connectors to adapt to whatever you need http://www.mcmaster.com/#thermocouples/=13a2o79. thermocouple wire in connect as necessary http://www.mcmaster.com/#thermocouple-wire/=13a2p36
scott
 
Thanks for the links! I got one of the McMaster Carr insulated TCs. The first shipment arrived today, got the PID and some other gear. Should have all the gear to start the controlled build within a week. I hooked up the furnace last night and she burns hot and bright. Pumped!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top