Cheap belts are cheap

[Tom Lewis]

I like to use zirconia 36 grit belts to rough shape knife handles. I like the Klingspor belts for this. The last time I ordered belts I could not get the Klingspor belts so I ordered some "Economy" belts. These were advertised as "AZ" belts. The belts do not have a manufacture's name, they have PZ 633 AZ 36 PES VS 02-33 01. I am not sure what all that means.
I put one on my Burr King and it wabbled all over the contact wheel. It acted like a belt acts when the splice is about to break. I tried another belt and it did the same thing. I tried these belts on a TW-90 machine and they did the same thing.
These belts are worthless. I am not going to tell where I bought them because I don't want to give this company a bad reputation. I have used them for years and I will continue to use them, I just won't get any more of their "Economy" belts.
I e-mailed the company and told them they should not be selling these belts. So far I have not heard back from them.
Some years ago I bought some belts off E-bay. The first two belts I put on my grinder broke in less than 30 seconds.
A cheap belt that is not any good is really an expensive belt.
In the future I plan to stick with name brands like Klingspor, Norton, 3M, etc.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Thanks Tom, it is good to hear when something isn't right. The "company" probably appreciates the feedback, too. I suspect the will ask you to return them for a refund, or just refund you.

About Ebay and other second source cheap belts:
Belts have a rather short shelf life. 1 year is all you should expect and depending on your shop environment it can be less. Ebay and such sellers get cases of belts that are being dumped by other sellers or large purchases of seconds.
The shelf-life is the glue joint. It starts to deteriorate the day after the belt was made. There is no way to repair it and no way to make one that lasts longer.
The glue is stored at -100°F and used the same day it is warmed to room temp.

Last winter, I found a couple rolls of expensive high-grade belts I bought from a good source that I had put in a storage box on the shelf and overlooked. They were 2-3 years old. I put them on, and each one would wobble after a few seconds and then break ... every single one.
Every now and then I get some belts that seem to last forever, but that is a rarity. Buy what you can use in six months. Reorder when half are gone.

I don't do this anymore, but back in my earlier days I did this, and it helped a lot:
Like most folks I bought every new belt that someone suggested, or a supplier carried at a show. It was hard to keep track of them - some went bad just sitting on the hooks, some were better than others, and it was hard to remember which ones I liked the most (was it a LS321 or an LS-312???).
I made a chart that had rows for all the belts I bought, and columns for the grits I used. As I bought a new type I added it. I wrote the date I bought them, the number I bought, and when they were used up. I had a comments line at the end of each row. I noted if I liked them and performance notes. If I liked the belt I highlighted it. If I didn't I marker it off and didn't reorder them again. I didn't take more than a couple years and I had narrowed my purchases down to two sources and just a few types of belts. I discovered that just like steel, picking what works best for your skill level and equipment is far wiser than buying a lot of different things. I still try a new belt every now and then but stick with the tried and true for most all orders.
As my skills and equipment evolved, I changed a few belt choices, but found that knowing what a belt would perform like consistently was far better than having three choices that performed differently and trying to decide which was best for a certain task.
I use ceramic belts for hogging, gator belts for cleaning up the roughed-out blades, and zirconia belts for getting a good 400 grit finish.
I found 50-60 grit is my best hogging grade, A300, A100, A60 for clean-up, and 120,220,400 for finishing. I keep a few 600 and 800 belts for special tasks and finer handle finishes. I keep scalloped edge AO belts in 220 and 400 for handle shaping. Over the years I narrowed down about 30 sizes and types of belts to maybe a dozen I use regularly.
I have no problem recommending Pop's as a good supplier. It was a bit different when James and kay were the folks I dealt with, but so far, I am still happy with them. What I hear from others is the customer service is still great.

Good story about the first time I met Jim (Pops) thirty years ago -
I was at a hammer-in and he had a machine I liked. It was expensive and I didn't have that kind of cash in my pocket. I told him I would have to order one after I got home and he said, "Put it in your car when we pack up and send me a check." It was the first of many purchases from an absolute gentleman.
.........I really miss The Poplin's. That is the bad part of getting old. The good part is hanging out with all you whippersnappers.

 

[Tom Lewis]

Thanks, Stacy, good information.
I am not going to ask for a refund, I just hope this place stops selling those belts.

 

[Joshua Fisher]

Thanks, Stacy, good information.
I am not going to ask for a refund, I just hope this place stops selling those belts.

I’ve used those exact belts and most run without wobble, I’d give the company a call and I’m sure they will send replacements, usually they don’t even ask for you to send the bad product back for stuff like this. I do prefer the premium zirconia belts as they are more consistent in grit, sometimes the economy ones would have a stray grit that would leave slightly deeper scratches which isn’t a huge issue for a roughing belt but I just prefer the more consistent ones. I believe the premium ones are made by vsm.

 

[Joshua Fisher]

Also just a side note even the best belts will sometimes have bad wobble to them, I’ve had this happen with blaze belts, cubitron belts, high end vsm. Sometimes a belt just doesn’t get cut perfectly, every company I’ve worked with for abrasives makes these issues right and replaces the product when it does happen.

 

[REK Knives]

Sucks that happened to you Tom! Hope they make it right.


Cheap belts aren't always cheap so to speak... I order the sankyo's from pops all the time (especially love the 220) and they are amazing, especially at only $2.50 per belt (part of their economy line).

Once in a while I'll get a few in a row that wobble (I think when the blade was getting dull at the manufacturer) so I just set those aside to use for things other than blades.

When I had some different belts that all had wobble they returned them no problem for a full refund.

 

[butcher_block]

not long ago i got a batch of bad 50grit belts they kept blowing the splice joint. got them from supergrit. let them know and they replaced them no charge. they took the case of belts that my 10 came out of and made sure not to ship anymore of them to anyone. as a note the belts were norton so it can happen to any belt producer

 

[Jason Fry]

I use the Sanyko alot as well. Have used probably 1000 of them in 5 years. Haven't had any real trouble, although occasionally the grit is a bit inconsistent. I use 120, 220, 400, 600 all the time.