Chef knife design check

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skillgannon

Joined
Apr 27, 2009
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This is where I have gone with my xhed knives. I'm more or less just scaling the design. It feels good to me and I like the look. That said I'm getting ready to do a big run of aeb-l blades and was hoping for a second set of eyes before I do 20-30 blades. I know a lot of you have made piles of kitchen knives and have a better idea about design.

Thanks
 
There are two main aspects to blade shape: eye appeal, which your blades have and cutting edge geometry, which is based on the users experience and preference. I know this is vague but only the end user can tell you if it is what he or she likes.
Commercial users especially like light weight blades. Using a knife for an hour or more is a different world than using one periodically during preparation for a meal. Commercial guys also like rolled backs to the blades so they don't eat up their fingers.
Your handles are overall thicker at the front than at the butt which when gripped tightly tends to make the knife slide forward out of your hand. Your knives have finger groves which should help with this. If inclined try this with a non sharpened knife: Hold the knife over the sink coat the grips/handle with liquid soap, grap the knife tightly and see where your hand and the knife go. Now lay the knife in the bottom of the sink and try to pickmit up (still slimy with soap) if you have to chase the knife around the sink to get ahold of it you may want to adjust your handle geometry.
Hope this is what you were looking for.
Jim A.
 
DAMNENG said:
There are two main aspects to blade shape: eye appeal, which your blades have and cutting edge geometry, which is based on the users experience and preference. I know this is vague but only the end user can tell you if it is what he or she likes.
Commercial users especially like light weight blades. Using a knife for an hour or more is a different world than using one periodically during preparation for a meal. Commercial guys also like rolled backs to the blades so they don't eat up their fingers.
Your handles are overall thicker at the front than at the butt which when gripped tightly tends to make the knife slide forward out of your hand. Your knives have finger groves which should help with this. If inclined try this with a non sharpened knife: Hold the knife over the sink coat the grips/handle with liquid soap, grap the knife tightly and see where your hand and the knife go. Now lay the knife in the bottom of the sink and try to pickmit up (still slimy with soap) if you have to chase the knife around the sink to get ahold of it you may want to adjust your handle geometry.
Hope this is what you were looking for.
Jim A.
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It is what I am looking for. The knives are very comfortable to me for the pinch grip that I use. Everything balances right at the front of the handle or even further back. I realized that I need to ask others about it when I gave a friend a loner and even though she is about 5'2" she complained about the handle being to small. I'm trying to get a set put together for a chef my wife knows for better feedback. I'm really trying to nail the kitchen knife thing this year. I have to find a great pairer pattern once I have the basics down for chefs.
 
A good way to see what is popular is to go to an on line custom chef's cutlery site, such as Epicurean Edge and look at what the popular chef's knife makers are making the most of. Then analize the shape and styling of their knives. A picture is worth .....
Jim A..
 
Please don't take this as anything other than constructive criticism. It is just my 2 cents.

Your blade profile is similar to the Euro style kitchen knives but the handle shape just looks wrong.
Damneng gave good advice when he said to look at the knives at Epic Edge. They sell a lot to the professionals and high end home users.
For handle shapes and sizes you could look at photos of Sabatier kitchen knives as well as those being made by some of the successful kitchen knife makers like Butch Harner, Bill Burke and Greg Cimms to mention a few.
 
The kitchen knife is a pretty wide range of ideas, especially to nail in a year. Profile and handle geometry are important. But the grind profile is equally important, if not more so.
If you are looking to hit a very basic kitchen knife audience you look to be about there. Your design is nice, and should be moderately effective. You might play with some different handle configurations.
It wouldn't take much to put a Wa handle on your basic design. Having both western and wa styles will broaden your market considerably.
Once you begin to understand various kitchen knife grinds, you will see that there are more options available to you, and a long learning curve. And there is no right or perfect grind. Lots of belly? Flatter profile? hmmm...
It all depends on personal preference and the tasks at hand.

Your current design looks heavily influenced by the drop point hunter, which isn't a terrible idea. But it's not a traditional kitchen style.
Look at the European designs, then look at the Japanese geometry. These are probably the two primary kitchen styles of professionals.
You can mix and match western/Euro with Japanese blades and handle for variation.
When you get into Japanese styles you will learn that they have a specific blade for EVERY task. So then you are bucking tradition with variations, which can work, ...or not.

Some makers make roughly the same knife every time. Others have a wide range of blade styles and grinds. From a production point of view, sticking with fewer designs probably makes sense. But it isn't as fun or challenging.
It is a fascinating study for sure, and the variations are endless. But you have to start somewhere, and you seem to have a decent blade there.
 
Right now these are coming out of mules that I have been testing. The handle shape came about from a blade that I had intended for a wa handle and slapped some scales on the scrap part if the handle just to give it a try and liked the way the handle felt. My wife seems to like them as well. I'm going for more of a European blade shape . My goal is to develop a 3 blade set. I want a light slicing chef and a scaled down slicer/utility blade and a really nice pairing knife. For a while at least a large number of of the knives i will make will be gifts for family and friends. From what I have seen most households use the smallest knives in the block most if the time.

I do want to start using wa handles again but I need to make a bunch of them up ahead of time.
 
You may also want to consider more of a true flat area towards the heel. Try mincing and chopping different ingredients on a cutting board and see how you might avoid accordion cuts.
 
Burl Source said:
This is similar to what I thought would be a good handle shape. (just my personal opinion)
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I do very much love those. I also am a HUGE fan of Salim Straubs work. So my thoughts for how I use a knife is that 2 fingers take the weight of the knife right where the handle has been rounded any fingers behind this really don't do much. This is how I use a knife at least. I really should see if I could find a classical cutting class. I'm near NYC they should have something.
 
tim37a said:
Hey Tim,
What is an accordion cut?
Tim
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Not speaking for Tim, but I believe he’s referring to when you don’t cut all the way through therefore your vegetables look like an accordion. When I first started making kitchen knives I read a book called “An Edge In The Kitchen”. It really helped me understand the different uses of different styles of knives and helped me design the knives I make. As Tim mentioned I would make sure the back near the heel is dead flat for a chef’s knife. I generally make the first 1/4-1/3 of the edge(2” or so on an 8” knife) flat. This helps in finishing the cut.
 
Matt R said:
Not speaking for Tim, but I believe he’s referring to when you don’t cut all the way through therefore your vegetables look like an accordion. When I first started making kitchen knives I read a book called “An Edge In The Kitchen”. It really helped me understand the different uses of different styles of knives and helped me design the knives I make. As Tim mentioned I would make sure the back near the heel is dead flat for a chef’s knife. I generally make the first 1/4-1/3 of the edge(2” or so on an 8” knife) flat. This helps in finishing the cut.
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Perfect explanation. Here is a visual too:
Check out all this guys vids, they are well made and his technique is great. He does alot of push cutting and uses the gentle curve of the blade mostly, but you will also find him using the heel too. you can see how a true flat is very important.
 
Skillgannon, I like the geometry of you knives pretty well, I am a closet chef, and do have a lot of experience in using kitchen cutlery for extensive cooking--read cutting a lot of different types of foods, and I rarely use a different knife for different foods--exception for breads--having said that I think you have a happy medium of blade shape and size, I don't see any obvious shortcomings looking at them, the handle is one of those things where I just have to get ahold of it to say ultimately.

So, you can feel free to send me one, and I would happily test it out for you--and even send it back after 3-4 weeks--but I'd be glad to keep one too!!!
 
Matt R said:
Not speaking for Tim, but I believe he’s referring to when you don’t cut all the way through therefore your vegetables look like an accordion. When I first started making kitchen knives I read a book called “An Edge In The Kitchen”. It really helped me understand the different uses of different styles of knives and helped me design the knives I make. As Tim mentioned I would make sure the back near the heel is dead flat for a chef’s knife. I generally make the first 1/4-1/3 of the edge(2” or so on an 8” knife) flat. This helps in finishing the cut.
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Thanks. I was able to find the book on kindle for half price and I can read it at work. That's the kind of info I am looking for.
Fish30114 said:
Skillgannon, I like the geometry of you knives pretty well, I am a closet chef, and do have a lot of experience in using kitchen cutlery for extensive cooking--read cutting a lot of different types of foods, and I rarely use a different knife for different foods--exception for breads--having said that I think you have a happy medium of blade shape and size, I don't see any obvious shortcomings looking at them, the handle is one of those things where I just have to get ahold of it to say ultimately.

So, you can feel free to send me one, and I would happily test it out for you--and even send it back after 3-4 weeks--but I'd be glad to keep one too!!!
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My phone number is 360.205.6225 shoot me a text tomorrow
 
Brother I will try again, but my phone is giving me an 'Invalid Number' message when I try to text you.
 
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So I am trying a new handle shape. I do think I will like it though I might still do a few of the old style.
 
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