Chef knife grinding technique?

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Jan 11, 2015
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If your stock is thick and you need to distal taper beyond the relative distal taper you get with a full flat grind, what is the best way to go about it?

I could taper the stock before starting the bevels, or I could thin it out as I'm grinding the bevels.

This will be my second time using the grinder and the first time grinding freehand so I'm hoping to minimize my chances of screwing up.

Thanks.
 
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If your stock is thick and you need to distal taper beyond the relative distal taper you get with a full flat grind, what is the best way to go about it?

I could taper the stock before starting the bevels, or I could thin it out as I'm grinding the bevels.

This will be my second time using the grinder and the first time grinding freehand so I'm hoping to minimize my chances of screwing up.

Thanks.[/

ButcherBlock has a video showing how to grind a chef knife with no plunge line. Search it and see if you can find it. Maybe someone will link it. I would but not sure how to do it.
 
That video is daunting :eek:

Answered my question perfectly though.

Thanks guys.

The hardest part is tapering the plunge. You will be better off starting with thinner stock. The thinner the stock is, the less you will have to blend the plunge. I would use some 3/32 or 1/8 at the most.
 
The hardest part is tapering the plunge. You will be better off starting with thinner stock. The thinner the stock is, the less you will have to blend the plunge. I would use some 3/32 or 1/8 at the most.

Tapering the tip so it's nice and thin is what worries me the most. The stock is 0.10" so not that thick but only 1.5" wide which compounds the problem of being too thick.

On my first knife I had a hard plunge at the front of the scales, photo here and here. This time I will be going for no plunge.
 
Tapering the tip so it's nice and thin is what worries me the most. The stock is 0.10" so not that thick but only 1.5" wide which compounds the problem of being too thick.

On my first knife I had a hard plunge at the front of the scales, photo here and here. This time I will be going for no plunge.

That looks good. Are you doing another gyuto? Grinding at an angle, like in the video, it will give it some distal taper. This is one I did and I didn't distal taper it to start. It's 2 inches tall and has more drop at the tip than a gyuto so it tapers more. Give it a shot and let us see your progress.
 
That looks good. Are you doing another gyuto? Grinding at an angle, like in the video, it will give it some distal taper. This is one I did and I didn't distal taper it to start. It's 2 inches tall and has more drop at the tip than a gyuto so it tapers more. Give it a shot and let us see your progress.

Yeah, I want to make the same knife again with a few alterations. Tapered tang, thinner towards the tip and no plunge.

I'll update on how it goes. Cheers.
 
I do it in a roundabout way, but it makes sense in my mind.

I do the standard bevel first, then grind down the spine to the thickness I want, and finish the bevels again. I'll end up with a grind where the bevel gets more acute towards the tip.
 
There are several ways to approach this, None is more right than the others.

I grind my bevels after HT and if I want it thinner than the stock I have, I make the blade as tall as possible at the heel."Some of my culinary are up to 3" high at the heel when I start with 1/8""

That can be done how Butch has shown in the video or I do it with almost a straight up plunge line and draw the handle/tang towards me as I approach the tip.

As you thin it out switch to a sharp fresh belt or you might over heat the tip. I find the ceramic VSM belts work great, they are low cost and I only ask about half the grit out of them before they get put in the non crucial belt pile, for profiling, spine rounding etc..

Like just about everything in knife making, what makes the diff is the end result! So get started and find what works for you.
 
Alright I gave it a practice go on a bit of scrap to get a feel for it, I found either grinding the taper before beveling or grinding the spine as don nguyen suggested worked well for me.

Problem I'm having now is the blade is warping like crazy as I grind the bevels and I can't work out why. I'm going fairly slow with little pressure, the blade is getting warm at most but after grinding maybe 75% of the initial bevel there is a cm of deflection. :confused:


d1ClY7z.jpg
 
I've had this type of warping as well on thinner stock knives. The good news is that you can fix it fairly easily. The steel believe it or not does have certain tensions in it, even after tempering. When you grind one side of the blade, the other side becomes far thicker in relation, and this sets up the tensions that pulls the blade. To prevent this you should grind both sides as you go. Not at once mind you, but a bit of one side and then switch. Make sure you scribe your center lines before grinding so you have those references (spine, edge and heal). Once you have both side ground to the same thickness, the blade should be straight again. But yes, it is a pain.
 
Warping like that is common on steel that has stress in it or steel that's been cold rolled. See that a lot in the machining world. Is that "scrap" you practised on actual blade steel or just mild steel. Any time I see this start to happen with blade steel I normalize/stress releave it in the forge or oven. What's happening is the steel has stress on both sides and if you remove steel from one side your also removing the stress from that side and the blade is pulled twords the side with more stress. This can be corrected by grinding the other side but it's usually more hassle and does not alow for a good perfect grind. This is why I highly recommend stress releaving your blade steels if this shows up. This is can also show up in forged blades which is one reason after forging you normalize and release the stress. Some times the stress does not show up till you hear it for the heat treat. Then it relaxes and goes where it wants. So good rule of thum is let it go where it wants befor you start working in and you will be much happier.
 
I do it in a roundabout way, but it makes sense in my mind.

I do the standard bevel first, then grind down the spine to the thickness I want, and finish the bevels again. I'll end up with a grind where the bevel gets more acute towards the tip.

I have very little experience with grinding bevels so far, but approach seems to work for me too quite well (I have a LOT to learn still)
 
I grind like a normal knife, i.e. scribe the edge on and grind a steep starter bevel to the line. Then I start walking that start bevel up towards the spine. Many times I will do as Don says, grind at some point with the spine up to tune spine thickness and taper, then remove the material between the edge bevel and spine. I don't adhere to any one technique, rather I will often find myself grinding lengthwise, widthwise, spine or edge up, diagonally, whatever the blade is needing at the moment.

Are you using AEB-L? It often warps like an SOB, whether heat treated or not. Using sharp belts helps, alternating a few passes each side, keeping it cool as well. Sometimes not a lot can be done to fix them if they warp, I have had success with shimmed tempers when necessary, but often they will take more work and overcorrection than say a 52100 blade will.

They say that it is because AEB-L comes off of a roll, so has a tendency to return to a curved shape. Could be, but I have seen that it will often curve whatever direction the grinder promotes. Many times the side being ground will become the top of a bow in the stock, which can be exasperating to the learner, as the wish to then remove that high point will lead to yet more bowing!

I have a theory about what may sometimes be the mechanism- if using anything but a nice sharp belt, part of what the abrasive grits are doing is peening rather than cutting, which increases surface area slightly at the grind. This the causes the steel to bow away from that point, much like the Berardo hammer-straightening technique. I think AEB-L is particularly susceptible to this. It seems to occur more markedly in hardened blades. Speaking of said Berardo technique, I've tried it on AEB-L but it doesn't work for me- I quench that steel and follow with dryo (dry-ice, not true cryo) then temper pretty lightly, so 62 rc. All I can say is you'd better have a pretty well hardened straightening hammer face to make a dent (literally) in that stuff. I suppose you could make a super-hard straightening hammer.

But then, sometimes it will bow the other direction, pulling toward the grinder. Especially on the surface grinder, it wants nothing more than for the ends to cup up toward the stone. I'll admit sometimes I still chase the stuff in circles!

Plate quenching after profiling, before bevel grinding, and keeping it cool are the best prevention, and that's the best cure- chasing warp out of AEB-L sucks.
 
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I have a theory about what may sometimes be the mechanism- if using anything but a nice sharp belt, part of what the abrasive grits are doing is peening rather than cutting, which increases surface area slightly at the grind. This the causes the steel to bow away from that point, much like the Berardo hammer-straightening technique. I think AEB-L is particularly susceptible to this. It seems to occur more markedly in hardened blades.

Yes! Although I'd call it burnishing rather than peening, although perhaps both happen to a certain extent. I think this is exactly the problem I've personally had with a few thinner blades. You can see it begin to happen, when your belt is becoming dull, and the finish it leaves goes from a nice satin with imperceptible scratch marks (at whatever grit) to a shiny white with grit size scratches. If I get that shine when doing finishing grinds, that now signals me to A) change belts or B) redress the belt to expose new edges (in context of finish grinding I really only do this with trizacts)

ETA: Thinking about it now, and the rest of your post, I think now maybe the "peening" pushes it away and the "burnishing" pulls it into the grinder. One creating higher surface area, one reducing surface area.
 
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