Chef or Carver?

E

edgetrip

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Aug 10, 2004
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I am looking for a kitchen knife to give as a gift. As I understand it the primary difference between a chef's knife and a carver s that the carving knife has a more flexible blade, is this true? Can one carve effectively with a chef's knife? Other then Henkels what are some brands to look at and where should I look?
Any info would be much appreciated.
 
I do most of the cooking in my house and I have found a chefs knife to be one of the most versitile knives in the kitchen. In fact most of the time I use a 7 inch chef and a 3 inch paring as my main knife set. I have a 7 inch carver and it gets used sometimes, but not near as much as a chef.

All my kitchen knives are the Victorinox/Forcshner brand with the fibrox handles. Smoky mountain knifeworks has all the models at very good prices. You don't have to spend a fortune on good kitchen knives. Some of the brands that are very popular are sold because of status of the name, not that they cut better. Some of my family is in the reasturant trade, and in most of the proffessional kitchens there is a heck of alot of Victorinox/Forcshner
 
I'm no chef either but I was looking for a Xmas present for my sister. I settled on a Kershaw Shun damascus patterned chef knife with 8" blade. I just received it today. It's beautifully made and the damascus pattern really sets it off. Oh, it also cuts like a dream. They run for about eighty dollars on the bay.
 
Henckels and Wusthof are the classic kitchen knives. But you should also look into the Global knives.

I carved the turkey using a Kershaw Shun chef's knife. (First use) I had a great time carving thinner and thinner slices with that baby, and impressed the hell out of everyone. (It didn't hurt that the turkey was cooked to perfection by the wife.) Everone even stopped asking "what do you need so many knives for?"
 
When chosing a kitchen knife the first requirement is that it has forged blade. If it is stamped out it will be thin and is crap. The oldest kitchen cutlery company in the country is lampson and they still make their blades drop forged. A forged blade will hold an edge far longer than a stapmed out blade. The other thing is what kind of handle material? Wood is nice but if the gift receiver will not take care of the knife and put it in the dishwasher than the black plastic handles are the way to go. You should also include a good steel and show them the proper way to use it. It will keep a sharp knife sharp a lot longer. It will not sharpen a dull knife.

Henkles 5 star are junk, go with the classic line if you choose a henkel.
Just my 2c
 
Take a look at this article/survey of surveys -

Kitchen Knives at Consumer Search

if you can afford the "best" (which is still open to personal preference/opinion) go for the Wusthof-Trident knives.

But the article also said this:

QUOTE:
It's commonly accepted that the best knives are forged—hammered into shape from a single piece of metal. An alternative method is to stamp them out of a sheet of metal; this process produces a lighter, thinner blade without a lip between the handle and blade (called a bolster on forged knives). Many cheaper knives are made this way, and reviewers say they can feel flimsy and hard to control. Forschner/Victorinox (*est. $80 for three) stamped knives are the exception. In side-by-side tests, experts are amazed at how well these perform next to forged knives that are three times as expensive. In a Cook's Illustrated review, Forschner/Victorinox tops three categories; chef's knives under $50, paring knives and bread knives.
UNQUOTE

But to answer the question a chef's knife is generally more versatile and can carve meats. A 10" size is usually what pros use - but may be too big for most people - espcially those who are not used to chef's knives an 8" is a good compromise that would suit most people (an aside for a do-it-all kitchen knife - a 6"-7" chef's with a wide blade is often what people choose)

This 8" chef's knife by Victorinox/Forschner with Rosewood handles (model # 40020) is rather nicely balanced -
40020.jpg

and surprisingly cheap - a lowest price found at under $28.....

The Fibrox/plastic handled version (model # 40520) is much more suitable for those with households that might put everything in the dishwasher...... - low priced found at under $20 -
10_1_b.JPG


It's often said "you get what you pay for" -
however we all look for those exceptional good value for money -
paying more does not necessarily mean you'll always get better -
as it is just as true -
"a fool and his money are soon parted" :)


--
Vincent

http://UnknownVincent.cjb.net
http://UnknownVT.cjb.net
 
I almost never use a carving knife. The big difference between a chefs knife and a carving knife is that a chefs knife's edge is lower than your knuckles when you cut on a cutting board. This makes it more efficient for almost all kitchen tasks. A carving knife has a narrower blade than a chefs knife. This allows it to make curved cuts around bones slightly easier. That is not enough advantage to make me want to sacrifice efficiency on a cutting board. Generally I want straight slices when I carve so a chefs knife works perfectly well as a carving knife. A thin blade is a little nicer since it has less drag.

If you are on a limited budget I would suggest you get a 8" chef's knife by Victorinox/Forschner with Rosewood handles (model # 40020) or something similar. The Rosewood handle stands up to washing well for a wooden handle and is attractive. The 8" length lets you work on thick roasts or whole heads of cabbage efficiently. The length also gives you a little extra weight to get through some hard materials. If you can afford it the Kershaw Shun chef's knife is a big step up.

I own over 100 kitchen knives. I find no advantage to forged knives. They tend to be overly thick and heavy. I often use knives that are only 1.5 mm thick. I have never found blade flexibilty to be a problem. I find forged bolsters frequently have to be ground down to allow the heel of forged knife blades to fully contact the cutting board as the blade is sharpened. I would prefer Japanese knives over German, but one of my thinnest/favorite chefs knives is German. Lamson would be at the bottom of my list (they are only about 54 RC and proud of it).

If the recipient does not have a cutting board I would go for a cheaper knife and include a cutting board as part of the gift. I would also suggest including a ceramic steel for maintaining the edge.
http://www.knifesite.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3084

If you want a knife that is balanced like a carving knife, but still works well on a cutting board you might try a MAC Superior Series SF-85. This knife has an 8.5" blade made from a tungsten-vanadium steel alloy that is around 60 RC. If you want a bit heavier blade look at the model SA-70.
http://www.macknife.com/page7.html
 
Postscript. There are a lot of people out there who are a real menace to kitchen knives. They will bend or break off the points, bend or chip the edges, hammer on the spines, and ruin the handles in the dishwasher. If you observe that your recipient is one of these people you need to give then a rugged knife rather than an an elegant knife. The Forschners are a fairly good compromise between ruggedness and efficiency. An idiot is still likely to damage them, but the damage will be limited.

Another thing to consider is appearance. When you give a knife to a woman she is likely to be interested in how pretty the handle is. If you have a sense of her taste in kitchen equipment try and be compatible. Kershaw and Global make knives with stainless steel handles to match that esthetic. Rosewood or other wood handles may suit some people better. Some people want everything either black or white. I've found a lot of fine knives at Goodwill stores because they didn't match the decor of someone's kitchen.
 
A carving knife is designed to use on a three dimensional space, cutting up and down and even sideways. Such as when -carving- (not that root word) a turkey. A Chef's knife is designed to chop down through whatever onto a flat surface (which is probably 95% of what you use a kitchen knife for).

For instance, a carving knife is terrible at chopping onions. The shallow blade means it is difficult to get the bottom part of the blade to contact a cutting board, so you end up sliding the knife back and forth to cut- dulling the blade quickly. A chef's knife you can just move up and down- allowing the blade to stay sharp for a very long time. A chef's knife, on the other hand, works OK for carving.

IMO a solid 10" Chef's knife is the most important blade any cook owns. I alternate between a 10" WMF Chef's that has a VERY deep, slightly rounded blade and a 20 year old 10" Wusthof that has a completely flat, thinner blade.
 
I'm using a few brands:
When I first got my apartment, I got a relatively good priced block set, but nothing real good. Got fed up when the blades began to dull and I had no way to resharpen the multi-toothed serrations. So I got better ones as I needed them.
An Ecko heavy bladed (machete-like) butchers knife for heavy slicing of meat, and goes thru chicken and rib bones real well (had this about 20 years).
Tools of the Trade Cleaver and Chef's knife.
Henckel's Chef's, boning, slicing/carving knives.

It would really depend upon the type of kitchen work and cooking being done by the recipient. If there's a lot of meat being served a carver; but if there is a lot of time being spent in the kitchen prepping and cooking especially veges, possibly the chef's knife woulf be more useful, but then again there probably would be one or two of these on hand already. Maybe you can see just what the person already has and determine what is needed more.
 
It blows my mind how much kitchen knife excellence you get for such a rediculously low price with the Forschner Victorinox with Fibrox handles. To the topic, I'd go with chef's first, but both are essentials.
 
for actual *kitchen* knives... I have 3... henckels cologne series 5.5" chef & 6.5" chinese cleaver... and a twin series 4" utility (paring knife)

keep the edge on the 4" shaving sharp, the cleaver and chef's will both skin a tomato.

after my sister tried using the 4" to pry frozen meat apart(bent the tip, left it on the counter and never said anything until I hounded her about it)... I hid it.

she used my 5.5" chef's for everything, so I bought her one for xmas last year.

I don't think there's been a single day that she hasn't used it to cook supper in the last year. She brings it with her when it needs sharpening, about once a month since has hasn't learned how to use a steel yet.
 
Another vote for Victorinox/Forscner. This is one of those rare instances where you get more than you paid for. An 8" Chefs knife will see a lot of use.

Paul
 
A carver should be straight edged, with ribs to prevent food from sticking, on good brands. And yes, the blade is flexible, a carving knife is good for carving meat and that's just about it. A chef's knife is curved so you can get a rocking action, to cut the food without having to remove the blade from the cutting board. A chef's knife is much more versatile and will no doubt see much more use in the home kitchen, in a restaurant environment however, things may be a little different. My favorite brand is Forschner, with the rosewood handle, not the black Victorinox handle. Just my opinion. Wusthof, or Global, are other good choices. For a gift, I'd give a 10 chef's Forschner forged, or rosewood handle. In fact, my girlfriend is getting a complete set of Forschners forged for the Holiday this year. Maybe try the one with serrations for an all round knife, very, very good with the tomatoes, and bread as well as everything else you'll come into cantact with in the kitchen, except thawed fish, for fish and serrations it has to be frozen. My Mom almost always uses the 12" chefs for carving, no problem.
 
ChuckBuck said:
My favorite brand is Forschner, with the rosewood handle, not Victorinox. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...

R.H Forschner is an importer/distributor, and do not MAKE knives -

The Rosewood 8" chef's knife (model # 40020) we're discussing, and often sold under the brand of Forschner - is actually made by Victorinox -
please look carefully at the photo posted above - BOTH Forschner and Victorinox are etched.

--
Vincent

http://UnknownVincent.cjb.net
http://UnknownVT.cjb.net
 
G'day,
I really like the Furi knives. They were designed and specified in Australia by old chefs with arthritis and the handles are a dream. The steel is not bad, they sharpen up well and keep their edge. They are made in China to keep costs down and the ones made in the last couple of years are higher quality that previously.
They make a full range of knives but I prefer the professional range and use the 8 inch cooks knife every day. I have Victorinox, Henkels, Wusthorf, etc. and they sit on the rack while the Furi gets used.
You can see their range at "www.furitechnics.com.au" and they should be available in cook shops.
Greg
 
My most used knife in the Kitchen is a 10" Chef's, a specialized carving knife would see little to no use. What the 10" won't handle, then a 6" utility or boning knife will do the trick. I use Kershaw Shun knives , they are a cross between Japanese traditional and Western standard kitchen knives.
 
Thanks all this is very helpful. As far as what she already has, this doesn't matter as its all utter crap. I want to get at least one maybe 2 or 3 knives that will fulfuill multiple needs. The props to Victornox are nice to hear especially considering there prices, which should allow me to get a couple of knives at least.
 
edgetrip said:
I want to get at least one maybe 2 or 3 knives that will fulfuill multiple needs. The props to Victornox are nice to hear especially considering there prices, which should allow me to get a couple of knives at least.
Click to expand...


In which case definitely get a paring knife - this is the most used knife for a lot of people - so it's very important to get the very best.......
fortunately this is where the Victorinox/Forschner is clearly the top for a lot of people (even allowing for my obvious bias :D)

In the same Rosewood series (model # 40100) low price at under $7-
40001.jpg


and if you're thinking of the Fibrox handled knives then the matching Victorinox parer (model # 40600) low price can be found for under $3!!!
40600.jpg


Really, really sharp cutters due to their very thin blades and fabulous geometry.
At these prices buy more than one and keep some for yourself......( the red plastic handled one is model # 40601)

--
Vincent

http://UnknownVincent.cjb.net
http://UnknownVT.cjb.net
 
The V-nox paring knife is one of, if not the most useful knives you will have in your kitchen. Better get more than one. ;)

Paul
 
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