Chefs knife vs Sandoku

[flphotog]

Really not trying and don't want to start a Japanese vs German knife war here, just talking about knife styles.
I've long been a big fan of the Chefs knife and it's my most used knife. Recently I bought a Sandoku and while I don't dislike it, it's great for cutting tomatoes and things like that, I just haven't been able to give it a place in my line up of knives.
Does anyone have any thoughts? Please no Japanese vs German nonsense.

 

[Brisket]

I like a Santoku mostly when counter space is limited and have to use a smaller cutting board that would be awkward to use with a larger chef or gyuto. This happened yesterday when I was sharing the kitchen with my wife preparing for a family gathering. I was using a 162mm Santoku for everything I would normally use a larger chef knife which in this instance was 2 of the 3 virtues was designed to excel at. Additionally, I often tend to take a Santoku over a chef knife when cooking away from my kitchen as it packs better. Definitely well suited for slicing tomatoes, potatoes, etc. I could do without a Nakiri or other knives but I like having a Santoku in the lineup. Not quite indispensable like a Chef/Gyuto, Slicer, Boning or Parer is to me but nice to have.

 

[flphotog]

I like a Santoku mostly when counter space is limited and have to use a smaller cutting board that would be awkward to use with a larger chef or gyuto. This happened yesterday when I was sharing the kitchen with my wife preparing for a family gathering. I was using a 162mm Santoku for everything I would normally use a larger chef knife which in this instance was 2 of the 3 virtues was designed to excel at. Additionally, I often tend to take a Santoku over a chef knife when cooking away from my kitchen as it packs better. Definitely well suited for slicing tomatoes, potatoes, etc. I could do without a Nakiri or other knives but I like having a Santoku in the lineup. Not quite indispensable like a Chef/Gyuto, Slicer, Boning or Parer is to me but nice to have.

That's how I'm starting to feel, won't be getting rid of it as it is nice for some things, tomatoes being one of them. I'm not a follower of the "two or three knives is all you need" school of thought. I'm a believer in the "every knife has a purpose" school of thought, sure you can get by with less but why try, unless traveling of course.

 

[jdm61]

IMO, the problem with a number of the western santokus that I have seen (aside from the hideous Granton divots) is that they are smaller than the Japanese ones, arguably too small particularly in heel height for their intended purpose. If you look at say a 165mm Shigefusa santoku, it is a pretty big knife, I seen specs of anywhere form 48-54mm at the heel with the"average being 50mm. That is taller than most 210 mm gyutos an some 240mm. The pattern that I use on a 240 is 51mm at the heel. A Misano 240 gyuto is around 49mm. Compare the Shigefusa that with your mom's little 5.5 (135mm MOL) inch budget line Henckels. That one is 35mm tall. The 7 inch (175mm)is a more usable 44mm.

 

[JRocks94]

I'm not a commercial or culinary school trained cook. However, I've cooked for over 55 years for myself, family and several ex husbands. My thoughts on the question of Chief's vs. Santoku: I loved my original Santoku bought randomly due to size and fit. A roommate pilfered it, I believe, So, I replaced it and didn't like the "new" Sontoku and the brand. It was a little smaller than the original. So, I bought a large size, Chief's knife (from Smart & Final) -- the kind commercial chiefs 's use. I do everything with that huge knife probably because I'm use to it and don't have a lot of time when cooking to stop to find additional, direct-purpose knives (paring, etc.) when pealing jalepenos or garlic, etc.

Recently, I bought a small, utility knife the size of a paring knife that has a sleeve for the blade and it's sharper than any other knife I own. Its cost: $1. Can't go wrong with cheap that works -- time will tell.

I'm moving toward honing my knives regularly to make them last and to provide more effective use.

 

[tomsch]

While I do have a Sandoku it really does not get much use as my general purpose knife is a 240mm gyuto. It provides the most flexibility with a nice taper to the tip that allows for more delicate cutting work. So much so that I find I rarely use one of my paring knives unless it is for peeling or tight work.

 

[DANG OL']

The term "chef knife" is a very general one. Can represent a wide variety of styles.

I'm assuming you mean a western-style rocker or gyuto.

Santokus have their place. A very good vegetable knife. Blocky like an usuba, it can chop well and do precise prepwork like fine dices and matchsticking. Depending on the amount of curve, it can rock a little as well. The westernized santokus are typically short and light so they can fly through veg prep. More traditional versions are larger as to accommodate heavier knifework.

 

[biomed]

I use a small sandoku (about 6" blade) made from repurposed sawmill blade steel. Sharpens easily and holds its edge well. It is my go to kitchen knife. It has enough curve to rock, Also an excellent tomato slicer. Not a fancy knife but works well for me. I picked it up in Alaska.

 

[Hesparus]

The gyuto is my favorite style of chef's knife, but I recently made a santoku to play around with. The santoku (7") is not quite big enough for a lot of things (gyuto is 9"), but it is just as good (not better) for a lot of smaller things. This is going to take some more time, but I have yet to see any reason to use a santoku over a gyuto.

Chris

 

[jc57]

I have an 8" chef's knife and a 7" santoku, both in the Shun Premier line. For my admittedly limited home kitchen usage, primarily cutting up fruits and veggies, I find them to be largely interchangeable in that role.

 

[antonio_luiz]

IMO the Santoku/Sandoku is a "Jack of all trades & master of none" sorta knife. If it wasn't for the producers and prop depts of TV celebrity chefs insisting that they use them (because they look kinda exotic???), I doubt that they would be as prolific in kitchens and stores. It's also painful to watch chefs like GR struggle with the cheap Western Santokus provided since they're not ideal for the rock-chopping techniques of the Western chef knives they're more familiar with

I know that some people like Santokus - but with exception of this one - http://agrussell.com/knife/104 - which lives in one of my smaller travel kits - I dislike them. At home I much prefer a thin Gyuto or a CCK Slicer

The typical Japanese home cook is far more likely to be using a Banno Bunka or a Nakiri than the Santoku

 

[KenHash]

The terms Santoku bouchou, Bunka Bouchou and Bannou Bouchou are all used interchangeably today. Santoku　（三徳）refers to
three applications- for meat, fish, vegetables. Bunka （文化）means culture and Bannou （万能）means all -purpose.
In the mid to late 1800s increased contact with Europe and the U.S. gave rise to the Gyuto. After WWII the average diet of the typical Japanese household changed to a greater degree of western dishes along with traditional Japanese dishes. The combination of Gyuto features with the traditional Nakiri (Usuba) vegetable knife gave rise to the Bunka Bouchou. The earliest ones seem to have a Kiritsuke but that was eventually rounded and the Santoku/Bunka/Bannou became the basic kitchen knife in every household, allowing the housewife to deal with all or most materials with just one knife. It's not a knife you see often among professional cooks who, depending on their expertise typically use several types for different applications.

Ichi Monji Bunka Bouchou:

Inosuke Bannou:

Masamoto Western Santoku:

The translation "All Purpose" is the best for this knife, and while it was specifically designed to be the one knife that would handle the most tasks, invariably it would not be the very best for each specialized task. I think it shouldn't be compared to other knife designs without taking this into account. I prefer to have several different knives rather than one all-purpose.

 

[Brock Cutlery]

The terms Santoku bouchou, Bunka Bouchou and Bannou Bouchou are all used interchangeably today. Santoku　（三徳）refers to
three applications- for meat, fish, vegetables. Bunka （文化）means culture and Bannou （万能）means all -purpose.
In the mid to late 1800s increased contact with Europe and the U.S. gave rise to the Gyuto. After WWII the average diet of the typical Japanese household changed to a greater degree of western dishes along with traditional Japanese dishes. The combination of Gyuto features with the traditional Nakiri (Usuba) vegetable knife gave rise to the Bunka Bouchou. The earliest ones seem to have a Kiritsuke but that was eventually rounded and the Santoku/Bunka/Bannou became the basic kitchen knife in every household, allowing the housewife to deal with all or most materials with just one knife. It's not a knife you see often among professional cooks who, depending on their expertise typically use several types for different applications.

Ichi Monji Bunka Bouchou:

Inosuke Bannou:

Masamoto Western Santoku:

The translation "All Purpose" is the best for this knife, and while it was specifically designed to be the one knife that would handle the most tasks, invariably it would not be the very best for each specialized task. I think it shouldn't be compared to other knife designs without taking this into account. I prefer to have several different knives rather than one all-purpose.

Thanks for the interesting history and perspective.

 

[jdm61]

Like we were talking about earlier, those also appear to be a fair bit larger than a lot of what you see a lot of in American home kitchens. Some of the cheap ones we see are almost like a petty with a blunt tip. I mentioned the Shigefusa version because it is quite tall and, well, it's a Shigefusa.

The terms Santoku bouchou, Bunka Bouchou and Bannou Bouchou are all used interchangeably today. Santoku　（三徳）refers to
three applications- for meat, fish, vegetables. Bunka （文化）means culture and Bannou （万能）means all -purpose.
In the mid to late 1800s increased contact with Europe and the U.S. gave rise to the Gyuto. After WWII the average diet of the typical Japanese household changed to a greater degree of western dishes along with traditional Japanese dishes. The combination of Gyuto features with the traditional Nakiri (Usuba) vegetable knife gave rise to the Bunka Bouchou. The earliest ones seem to have a Kiritsuke but that was eventually rounded and the Santoku/Bunka/Bannou became the basic kitchen knife in every household, allowing the housewife to deal with all or most materials with just one knife. It's not a knife you see often among professional cooks who, depending on their expertise typically use several types for different applications.

Ichi Monji Bunka Bouchou:

Inosuke Bannou:

Masamoto Western Santoku:

The translation "All Purpose" is the best for this knife, and while it was specifically designed to be the one knife that would handle the most tasks, invariably it would not be the very best for each specialized task. I think it shouldn't be compared to other knife designs without taking this into account. I prefer to have several different knives rather than one all-purpose.

 

[KenHash]

I haven't really looked at non-Japanese Santokus but I believe you are right. That may have something to do with the way the knife is used.
There is a school of thought that suggests that the 3 in Santoku refers to the usability of the tip, blade edge and heel. For example the heel
is used to gouge out the eyes while skinning a potato. I'm not sure if in western cooking the heel is used, which would then explain why they are
not as pronounced for use and much closer to the handle. Just thinking out loud here.

 

[jdm61]

More like a cheap small knife that will fit in the typical kitchen draw that looks kinda cool and has a sexy foreign name that makes you feel like a kitchen ninja. Don't EVEN get me started on Granton divots.

I haven't really looked at non-Japanese Santokus but I believe you are right. That may have something to do with the way the knife is used.
There is a school of thought that suggests that the 3 in Santoku refers to the usability of the tip, blade edge and heel. For example the heel
is used to gouge out the eyes while skinning a potato. I'm not sure if in western cooking the heel is used, which would then explain why they are
not as pronounced for use and much closer to the handle. Just thinking out loud here.

 

[ChefChris]

I use the traditional chef knife for almost everything in the kitchen, and pull out the paring knife for all the hand cutting stuff. The Santoku has grown on me over the years though. I really only use it for vertical cuts and chopping though. The Chef knife feels great for gliding through meats and veg. A Santoku is fun for chopping straight down on stuff.

 

[jdm61]

The santoku has a fair bit of nakiri DNA so that makes perfect sense.

I use the traditional chef knife for almost everything in the kitchen, and pull out the paring knife for all the hand cutting stuff. The Santoku has grown on me over the years though. I really only use it for vertical cuts and chopping though. The Chef knife feels great for gliding through meats and veg. A Santoku is fun for chopping straight down on stuff.

 

[Bazzle]

Not that it matters, just thought I would add a bit of my experience and thoughts.
I worked in food service for 15 years. I know have a mobile sharpening service sharpening for locally owned and high end restaruants. I also make custom knives.
I have one santoku my wife got for me from a custom maker while she was in Japan. I use it at home and like it, but in my opinion that is the the only place it will shine. As said before, you just can't get the work done as you could with a chefs knife. Good in tight places, small cutting boards.

 

[jdm61]

My understand is that the santoku was designed with the rather cramped Japanese him in mind.

Not that it matters, just thought I would add a bit of my experience and thoughts.
I worked in food service for 15 years. I know have a mobile sharpening service sharpening for locally owned and high end restaruants. I also make custom knives.
I have one santoku my wife got for me from a custom maker while she was in Japan. I use it at home and like it, but in my opinion that is the the only place it will shine. As said before, you just can't get the work done as you could with a chefs knife. Good in tight places, small cutting boards.