Chinese knife steel questions on m390 and such

K

Kustom Kutz

Joined
Oct 17, 2016
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Sup BF!

I have a couple kizer’s and 2 others I think are WE collabs and all are s35 steel $100-150 range. These all seem to perform good with everyday tasks although I do feel that they are a bit easier to sharpen and lose an edge quicker than US counterparts. I have found information from retailers that says they provide kizer and like with s35 steel so I am ok trying a few of these knives out since they are original and some of the styling is more to my taste(I need help I’m a flipaholic)! The one drawback I see is on the Chinese models maybe the HT on the low end stuff isn’t quite there yet. If that’s true for common s35 then how is the HT on the more expensive/less prevalent steels like M390? Anyone know of edge retention tests or anything like that done on some of them? I find utube vids on these knives but never anything on the steel and how well it performs. Also, since we can assume they are getting actual USA steel for atleast s35 can we also assume the same for other steel like M390 and such? Can we assume the more well known brands are legit? What about the cheaper/lesser brands high end knives like real steel?

Why ask this? Well I recently got the bug for some new steel flavors. Most everything I have is S30, s35 or worse. I have a few ELMAX zt and while they are great steels this addiction leaves me wanting to try more. Just got a pm2 s110v last week and been looking for something in m390 now. Nothing US made in my low end price range tickles me but I have found a few Chinese knives in M390 that I like and are $200ish.

If anyone has history, experience or links on Chinese knives with high end steels I can research please let me know. Even if it’s just personal opinion from you cutting cardboard and sharpening it all helps! My budget tops off at $200 so it’s the lower end models with this steel I’m looking at. If it helps the 2 companies are real steel and Reate. I can give models too but that may change I’m more interested In how well these super steels are performing on Chinese knives.
 
Kustom Kutz said:
My budget tops off at $200 … the 2 companies are real steel and Reate
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What Reate are you looking at for <$200?

I think you can assume that Reate are using the steels they claim. Their ties to reputable people like Liong Mah and Todd Begg are too valuable for them to screw around. Can't comment about Real Steel.

Heat treats and actual performance vary widely. If you want a knife that's seen actual edge-retention testing, it's better to buy a brand of knives that people actually use for hard use.

Kustom Kutz said:
Most everything I have is S30, s35 or worse
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This phrase reeks of nonsense. Those are supersteels.
 
Sup foo.

I’d trust Reate, WE and Kizer on steels. Not sure about the others... some of the D2 out of China is real iffy. Good comment from vanadium above about what those companies have at stake.

If you have a steel bug to itch, look at Spyderco. They do a bunch of different steels, especially with dealer exclusives and Sprint Runs.
 
Benchmade's Griptillian 550-1 in cpm20cv is under 200$ . I have been very pleased with the edge retention on mine.
I only have one Kizer in s35vn it seems fine but I haven't used it nearly as hard as the Griptillian.
 
vanadium said:
What Reate are you looking at for <$200?

I think you can assume that Reate are using the steels they claim. Their ties to reputable people like Liong Mah and Todd Begg are too valuable for them to screw around. Can't comment about Real Steel.

Heat treats and actual performance vary widely. If you want a knife that's seen actual edge-retention testing, it's better to buy a brand of knives that people actually use for hard use.



This phrase reeks of nonsense. Those are supersteels.
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It’s a pipe dream but horizon a for $250. You can still get on bladehq email notification but they are long gone I’m pretty sure. Don’t know unless I try though!

Haha I know just said it terrible wrong...meant my steels go from Elmax and s35 down to we’ll you know. By no way discounting those steels and how great they are!

ScooterG said:
Sup foo.

I’d trust Reate, WE and Kizer on steels. Not sure about the others... some of the D2 out of China is real iffy. Good comment from vanadium above about what those companies have at stake.

If you have a steel bug to itch, look at Spyderco. They do a bunch of different steels, especially with dealer exclusives and Sprint Runs.
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Ya just got a pm2 in s110v I’m just partial to flippers and Spyderco just hasn’t seem to get that part down yet. That’s being very nit picky I know!

tyyreaun said:
Check the Cedric & Ada channel on YouTube. They've done a few steels from Chinese manufacturers.

Incidentally, the worst heat treat they found was on a few ZTs, so I wouldn't always automatically assume US heat treats are awesome.
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Yes I watched part 1-3 and looked at their blogs already. But I still trust most USA stuff before Chinese steel but they are coming along fast

flatblackcapo said:
Benchmade's Griptillian 550-1 in cpm20cv is under 200$ . I have been very pleased with the edge retention on mine.
I only have one Kizer in s35vn it seems fine but I haven't used it nearly as hard as the Griptillian.
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Thanks for the reply I’m just not a huge fan of the grip. For some reason it doesn’t fit my hand well
 
The Horizon A and B are long gone other than secondary market. You can still find the C and D. There's a new run of Mini Horizons out now too but not in your price range. If Reate ever did another run of Horizon A it'd be a $400 knife.
 
Ya figured that was the case just got my hopes up that they let me get on the notification list! I saw the C but it’s s35 steel and like you mentioned the others are above my $$$ range. I will watch the market and hope for a Miracle.
 
HTB1av8_Dc2_NZWe_Jj_SZFpq6xj_BFXa_T.jpg

HT seems quite legitimate
 
Thanks Chumaman! Which company is this for? It might be in small print but I’m at work on my phone and couldn’t distinguish it.
 
I do not know which company but it is confirmation that Bohler - China is doing Ht for its customers
therefore I believe that much knife companys uses this service
since most of the makers use hardened steel .
I do not believe that Chinese manufacturers themselves allow a mistake with expensive steel ...
just because of the reputation itself and the desire to break into the market.....very logical ;)
 
That seems to be the consensus here with the better known Chinese companies. vanadium vanadium made some good points in the above post. So i feel better about that aspect now. However Hackenslash Hackenslash broke my heart with Reate so I have to set my sights lower on real steel or something else!

I am wondering for the smaller companies that predominantly make less expensive knives if they feel the same way. Like real steel owns two suns or something that is known to make clones so would they be concerned about their reputation and steel quality with the parent brand name real steel? You can find the megaladon ti M390 for $144.99 plus shipping. Seems like a great deal if you are truly getting good m390 steel.
 
You can also get the Steel Will Cutjack and Modus in m390 for about $130. They are made by Viper (Italy) for Steel Will.
 
I have a few knives in M390. William Henry, Kershaw, and Real Steel (and previously a Rike). All perform pretty close to each other, none of them underperform. I wouldn't trust some no name company or a company with no market presence or reviews, but if you stick to good manufacturers like Kizer, WE, Reate, and Rike you will get perfectly acceptable performance for the steel (unless the HT is flubbed, but that can happen with any manufacturer). Just make sure you don't get a knife with the edge geometry of a brick like some of these high end knives are doing.
 
chumaman said:
:( https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/rockwell-testing-of-blades.1544677/
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Jeez dont know how I missed that thread. Great info thank you!

dkb45 said:
I have a few knives in M390. William Henry, Kershaw, and Real Steel (and previously a Rike). All perform pretty close to each other, none of them underperform. I wouldn't trust some no name company or a company with no market presence or reviews, but if you stick to good manufacturers like Kizer, WE, Reate, and Rike you will get perfectly acceptable performance for the steel (unless the HT is flubbed, but that can happen with any manufacturer). Just make sure you don't get a knife with the edge geometry of a brick like some of these high end knives are doing.
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Interesting so I think I understand... You get what you pay for essentially... The Real Steel M390 for $150 isnt going to quite hold its edge like a WE or Reate M390 blade but I could expect decent performance out of it. In your experience and use does it hold an edge better than a quality S35VN? I am really trying to get an idea of how the steel performs like Ankerson's thread on steels and how many cuts each steel would make with bevels and geometry the same on all the blades. In Ankersons thread mostly the production S30 and S35VN fell just below M390. Thats why I initially wanted to try M390. After researching it more I found that it was a solid all around performer with good attributes and everybody seems to love it that has it.
 
I can't tell a difference in use between M390 by manufacturer. All of them perform better than S35VN to me. Any good manufacturer follows Böhler heat treat protocols (high end ones can have their own protocol, but they also don't run 59-61 HRC), so you are going to pretty much only get performance variance from the grind of the knife itself. Even my super stout Benchmade MPR in M390 performed pretty well, granted it had the restrictions of the thick stock and partial flat grind.
 
doubt you will get m390 in 60-62hrc but 58-61 is more likely. either way it will vary. regardless it will perform good enough.
here's we knives test...

we knives source m390 from the USA but its a German steel from bohler


unleashed...

depending on the heat treatment equipment that the Chinese factory is using will effect the outcome. some factories don't have ovens that get hot enough and some dont use cryo. so results can vary from factory to factory.


also m390 , 204p and 20cv are basically the same steel.
 
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