Chinese steel

T

Tommy Paines

Joined
Jun 3, 2020
Messages
3
Hi,

This is my first post on this forum and I'm a complete novice to the steel world and was hoping someone would be able to help me out with some advice.

I'm currently looking to buy some wholesale kitchen scissors/shears from China to sell in my shop, as I've heard good things about some of the Chinese steels (and some bad things about others!).

The options of steel from the manufacturers to make the blades out of are:

- 2CR13
- 3CR14
- 4CR15
-5Cr15MoV

Can anyone help? I'm looking for a durable steel that has good corrosion properties and will not rust, but is also sharp and will keep its edge.

Anyone advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Tommy
 
Tommy Paines said:
Hi,

This is my first post on this forum and I'm a complete novice to the steel world and was hoping someone would be able to help me out with some advice.

I'm currently looking to buy some wholesale kitchen scissors/shears from China to sell in my shop, as I've heard good things about some of the Chinese steels (and some bad things about others!).

The options of steel from the manufacturers to make the blades out of are:

- 2CR13
- 3CR14
- 4CR15
-5Cr15MoV

Can anyone help? I'm looking for a durable steel that has good corrosion properties and will not rust, but is also sharp and will keep its edge.

Anyone advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Tommy
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All of those steels are very much sub-par. Couple that with the inherent uncertainty of what steel you're actually receiving and at what hardness... Well...

I agree that you should find another source.
 
I’m going to disagree with anyone telling you not to buy from China. I believe Fiskars manufacturers some of their scissors in China (among a few other locations) and they’re arguably the most well known and popular brand.
 
fatBatman said:
I’m going to disagree with anyone telling you not to buy from China. I believe Fiskars manufacturers some of their scissors in China (among a few other locations) and they’re arguably the most well known and popular brand.
Click to expand...

Certainly not blanketly anti-Chinese by any means. But to ensure the kind of quality the OP seems to be looking for may take a large volume commitment and significant rigor.

And again, those steels are probably less than ideal for the request.
 
If I walked into your shop to buy scissors and you did not sell USA or European made scissors I would thank you for your time and purchase somewhere else.
 
Thanks for the replies so far and the advice to steer away from Chinese steel. However all I've really learnt is that people have a range of pro and against Chinese steel opinions without any explanation - I was hoping someone would be willing to explain why they would/would not use any of the steels I listed based on their physical properties. I was hoping this forum would be able to provide some detail of that.

Many thanks,
T
 
Eli Chaps said:
Certainly not blanketly anti-Chinese by any means. But to ensure the kind of quality the OP seems to be looking for may take a large volume commitment and significant rigor.

And again, those steels are probably less than ideal for the request.
Click to expand...
You may not be “anti Chinese”, but your response came across as a blanket “don’t buy anything made of steel from China”... and that is as “anti” as it gets.

Have you ever heard of Reate or WE knives?
 
Tommy Paines said:
Thanks for the replies so far and the advice to steer away from Chinese steel. However all I've really learnt is that people have a range of pro and against Chinese steel opinions without any explanation - I was hoping someone would be willing to explain why they would/would not use any of the steels I listed based on their physical properties. I was hoping this forum would be able to provide some detail of that.

Many thanks,
T
Click to expand...
May I ask, do you think your customers will care what type of steel is used in these scissors? I know from my personal scissor buying I haven't cared at all, and I'm a crazy knife nut. I use scissors mostly in the kitchen for odd food and utility tasks.

I do have one prized pair of scissors that I've had for over 20 years, the old Kershaw TaskMaster, before they moved production of them to China. They are made in Japan and are of good quality. But, to the point of my question above, I don't know what steel they are made out of, K KenHash do you know?

Just to generally answer the OPs question, out of the steels listed the 5cr would be the best IMO. From what I can tell 5cr is essentially the Chinese equivalent to 1.4116 (or 4116, it can get confusing). The German version of this steel is used and praised in most entry/mid range name brand production kitchen knives. Some companies will use the names interchangeably.
 
Last edited:
fatBatman said:
You may not be “anti Chinese”, but your response came across as a blanket “don’t buy anything made of steel from China”... and that is as “anti” as it gets.

Have you ever heard of Reate or WE knives?
Click to expand...
I guess I don't see that at all. This discussion will go much better without discussing the other posters and taking the discourse personally.

There are some major concerns when buying in bulk from a Chinese supplier, any supplier really, but given where most of the counterfeiting goes on, questioning a wholesaler from China is warranted. It's just the name of the cutlery game.
 
Tommy Paines said:
Thanks for the replies so far and the advice to steer away from Chinese steel. However all I've really learnt is that people have a range of pro and against Chinese steel opinions without any explanation - I was hoping someone would be willing to explain why they would/would not use any of the steels I listed based on their physical properties. I was hoping this forum would be able to provide some detail of that.

Many thanks,
T
Click to expand...

Hi Tommy. My concern would be hardness. Obviously you don't want steel so hard it is brittle but I'd be concerned that those steels might be too soft and would be prone to deformation.

That said, I'm not sure what steels and at what hardness scissors usually run at.
 
craytab said:
May I ask, do you think your customers will care what type of steel is used in these scissors? I know from my personal scissor buying I haven't cared at all, and I'm a crazy knife nut. I use scissors mostly in the kitchen for odd food and utility tasks.

I do have one prized pair of scissors that I've had for over 20 years, the old Kershaw TaskMaster, before they moved production of them to China. They are made in Japan and are of good quality. But, to the point of my question above, I don't know what steel they are made out of, K KenHash do you know?

Just to generally answer the OPs question, out of the steels listed the 5cr would be the best IMO. From what I can tell 5cr is essentially the Chinese equivalent to 1.4116 (or 4116, it can get confusing). The German version of this steel is used and praised in most entry/mid range name brand production kitchen knives. Some companies will use the names interchangeably.
Click to expand...


Hi thanks so much for the reply. No, I totally agree the customers will not care to know what type of steel is used to make them, but they will care if their scissors rust, or become blunt quickly due to a poor steel choice on my end.

From what I've read this seems to corroberate with what you said about the 5cr, so I'm leaning towards that steel. Many thanks for the advice!

T
 
Eli Chaps said:
Hi Tommy. My concern would be hardness. Obviously you don't want steel so hard it is brittle but I'd be concerned that those steels might be too soft and would be prone to deformation.

That said, I'm not sure what steels and at what hardness scissors usually run at.
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I'm more concerned about the expectations of the customers. If we are talking precision grooming or sewing shears, I'd be concerned about those things. If these are just inexpensive utility scissors, I don't think it matters that much at all. Just go as high up on the Xcr scale as you can while keep the cost low. Might not want 8cr because of rusting easier than the rest, but for cheap kitchen scissors, 5cr would be just fine, and is likely better than what is used in most kitchen draw scissors of members here. Just my opinion of course.
 
Tommy Paines said:
Hi thanks so much for the reply. No, I totally agree the customers will not care to know what type of steel is used to make them, but they will care if their scissors rust, or become blunt quickly due to a poor steel choice on my end.

From what I've read this seems to corroberate with what you said about the 5cr, so I'm leaning towards that steel. Many thanks for the advice!

T
Click to expand...
You are welcome. See my most recent post.
 
craytab said:
I'm more concerned about the expectations of the customers. If we are talking precision grooming or sewing shears, I'd be concerned about those things. If these are just inexpensive utility scissors, I don't think it matters that much at all. Just go as high up on the Xcr scale as you can while keep the cost low. Might not want 8cr because of rusting easier than the rest, but for cheap kitchen scissors, 5cr would be just fine, and is likely better than what is used in most kitchen draw scissors of members here. Just my opinion of course.
Click to expand...

Cool. That makes sense.
 
craytab said:
I do have one prized pair of scissors that I've had for over 20 years, the old Kershaw TaskMaster, before they moved production of them to China. They are made in Japan and are of good quality. But, to the point of my question above, I don't know what steel they are made out of, K KenHash do you know?
Click to expand...

As far as I am aware, Kai uses Molybdenum Vanadium Stainless for their general utility scissors like the Taskmaster 112x series .
That would be 440 class Aus-8 or similar. German scissors seem to again use a 4116 variant but hardened more than Japanese steels.

The high end of scissors is in the haircutting category. The following is interesting from a maker who manufactures in Taiwan.
" Traditionally, high quality hair cutting scissors are manufactured in either German steel or Japanese steel. With Japanese being the much superior steel of the two due to the high carbon content and a delicate balance of other metal mixtures. German steel is very hard and brittle, that does not sharpen well, but retains it’s edge. Next in quality, is softer steel that is manufactured in China, Korea and Taiwan. Although, some reputable Korean and Taiwanese manufacturers do import and use high grade Japanese steel and Japanese craftmanship.

Poorer quality steel is produced and used in scissors manufactured in Pakistan and does not hold an edge well.

The majority of the hair cutting scissors sold on Ebay are manufactured in Pakistan and China with inferior steel, despite claims of using Japanese J2, 420, 440 grade steel. There is a large scale counterfeit scissors industry in Pakistan and China (except the well-established surgical instruments industry) and if a scissors are passed off as high grade 440c Japanese steel and is being sold for around £12 – £20, then this should serve as a red flag to you as in reality a high-end Japanese steel scissors can cost anything between five times to a hundred times this amount. This is due to the high labour costs involved and large number of steps required to make a high quality scissors."

https://titan-1918.com/whats-in-your-steel
 
KenHash said:
As far as I am aware, Kai uses Molybdenum Vanadium Stainless for their general utility scissors like the Taskmaster 112x series .
That would be 440 class Aus-8 or similar. German scissors seem to again use a 4116 variant but hardened more than Japanese steels.

The high end of scissors is in the haircutting category. The following is interesting from a maker who manufactures in Taiwan.
" Traditionally, high quality hair cutting scissors are manufactured in either German steel or Japanese steel. With Japanese being the much superior steel of the two due to the high carbon content and a delicate balance of other metal mixtures. German steel is very hard and brittle, that does not sharpen well, but retains it’s edge. Next in quality, is softer steel that is manufactured in China, Korea and Taiwan. Although, some reputable Korean and Taiwanese manufacturers do import and use high grade Japanese steel and Japanese craftmanship.

Poorer quality steel is produced and used in scissors manufactured in Pakistan and does not hold an edge well.

The majority of the hair cutting scissors sold on Ebay are manufactured in Pakistan and China with inferior steel, despite claims of using Japanese J2, 420, 440 grade steel. There is a large scale counterfeit scissors industry in Pakistan and China (except the well-established surgical instruments industry) and if a scissors are passed off as high grade 440c Japanese steel and is being sold for around £12 – £20, then this should serve as a red flag to you as in reality a high-end Japanese steel scissors can cost anything between five times to a hundred times this amount. This is due to the high labour costs involved and large number of steps required to make a high quality scissors."

https://titan-1918.com/whats-in-your-steel
Click to expand...
Thanks you for the wealth of information.
 
Tommy Paines said:
Hi thanks so much for the reply. No, I totally agree the customers will not care to know what type of steel is used to make them, but they will care if their scissors rust, or become blunt quickly due to a poor steel choice on my end.

From what I've read this seems to corroberate with what you said about the 5cr, so I'm leaning towards that steel. Many thanks for the advice!

T
Click to expand...
And then that begs the question of if you are really getting 5cr. Of course, we can't answer that for you. Trusting your source will be the issue. And as you can see from Ken's post, it can get real complicated.

But again, for cheap junk drawer scissors, I don't know how much that really matters. Here are the scissors I have around me in the kitchen right now. No clue on the steel. The two red ones are freebies I got from Knifecenter and they work great. The white ones say Korea, had em for at least 15 years. I use to have more in the kitchen but they must have gotten appropriated elsewhere by the wife.

Cs9b6eSh.jpg
 
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