CK Exclusive: Fox Cutlery "Recoil" Gunstock

[JohnDF]

If only GEC could have listened to their customers

Yes and no...
I'd like them to produce EXACTLY what I want, but that isn't their business model and their model seems to be working.

 

[JohnDF]

My thoughts on these "modernized' slipjoints with torx screw construction...
I do like buying and owning them. I have a Lionsteel, a Viper, and will buy one of these made by Fox.
The build quality, the materials, and the design make them very good pocket knives and the price seems good for all that you get.
However, they are not "traditional" in the traditional sense and therefore I choose to post pictures of them in the appropriate threads.
I have gotten over being offended by their pictures popping up on the Traditional forum, if the mods find them acceptable who am I to argue.

 

[Texoma]

Good video of the knife and that clip blade really looks nice.
I'm not into carbon, have quite a few micartas and darker wood so I think olive wood might work, if it gets dropped I'll pick another, probably a micarta.

 

[Pàdruig]

Though I am a bit bummed that Rams Horn and Stag don't look to be cover options on this go around, wood does looks pretty good on a Gunstock so I opted to go with Bocote. I had a Roundhead with Bocote awhile back and it looked pretty darn good.

 

[Pàdruig]

My thoughts on these "modernized' slipjoints with torx screw construction...
I do like buying and owning them. I have a Lionsteel, a Viper, and will buy one of these made by Fox.
The build quality, the materials, and the design make them very good pocket knives and the price seems good for all that you get.
However, they are not "traditional" in the traditional sense and therefore I choose to post pictures of them in the appropriate threads.
I have gotten over being offended by their pictures popping up on the Traditional forum, if the mods find them acceptable who am I to argue.

I've thought about how I might frame a response for a bit now and I think the conclusions I've made are not so much a direct response to your comments but rather to the quandary these knives present overall. Though I haven't been around long enough to have experienced the birth of GEC, I have been around long enough to see the concept of these "modern" traditionals brought to life and the subsequent impact they have had on the market and surrounding conversations.

With the amount of sour grapes being bandied about these days in conversations surrounding GEC, it is hard to get real excited about their releases currently. Without them though, options are rather limited... Though it isn't an apples to apples comparison, the Maniago cutlery firms present a superb alternative and they provide an unparalleled slipjoint in some of our favorite patterns - it just so happens that they have a modern flair with the materials used and construction methods. However, compared to other modern takes on the slipjoint (Benchmade, ZT, etc.), these Italian firms - under Mike's watchful eye - have produced a number of slipjoints that better embody the traditional form than most, if not all, of their modern contemporaries.

I defer to the mods' stance on this and I think a strong case has been made for why these knives can be displayed here. These are traditional patterns (unlike the Benchmade Proper and the ZT variants) and there is no mistaking the Swayback for anything else or the Sowbelly for a "it-kind-of-looks-like-a-Sowbelly....". They walk-n-talk, they feel like a traditional pocket knife, and aside from the torx head screws, they look like a traditional pocket knife. I think @Misplaced Hillbilly had a good suggestion in that slotted screws would certainly have a more traditional flair - that said, from a gunsmithing perspective, I can already see the multitudes of "idiot" marks...

Personally, I feel that there is certainly a place for these knives on the Porch - even if it is just that little corner where the quiet guy likes to park himself.

 

[knifeswapper]

My thoughts on these "modernized' slipjoints with torx screw construction...
I do like buying and owning them. I have a Lionsteel, a Viper, and will buy one of these made by Fox.
The build quality, the materials, and the design make them very good pocket knives and the price seems good for all that you get.
However, they are not "traditional" in the traditional sense and therefore I choose to post pictures of them in the appropriate threads.
I have gotten over being offended by their pictures popping up on the Traditional forum, if the mods find them acceptable who am I to argue.

Compounding the terminology with "traditional in a traditional sense" is a tricky way of holding the definition hostage (just logically, not a knock on you) to some unknown criteria. Then we need to add adjectives and increase the categories. The Recoil is not a "traditional traditional" since it is made on traditional pattern lines but with current technology modifications; so it is a "modern traditional". And then we have to define those that are not on traditional pattern lines and with modern components, such as the Proper, etc. as "modern slipjoints". And when GEC makes a pattern that doesn't already exist in historical silhouettes; we must call it a "traditional modern" pattern. So, depending on which of our new double termed components we decide to base the subforum on - we can't call a pattern made by one of the oldest slipjoint makers in the industry; with 80 year old equipment; a traditional.

 

[Chui]

I defer to the mods' stance on this and I think a strong case has been made for why these knives can be displayed here. These are traditional patterns (unlike the Benchmade Proper and the ZT variants) and there is no mistaking the Swayback for anything else or the Sowbelly for a "it-kind-of-looks-like-a-Sowbelly....". They walk-n-talk, they feel like a traditional pocket knife, and aside from the torx head screws, they look like a traditional pocket knife. I think @Misplaced Hillbilly had a good suggestion in that slotted screws would certainly have a more traditional flair - that said, from a gunsmithing perspective, I can already see the multitudes of "idiot" marks...

Personally, I feel that there is certainly a place for these knives on the Porch - even if it is just that little corner where the quiet guy likes to park himself.

- agreed, Dylan

There will always be purists in every field, and there too will be those who I guess could be called open-minded and accepting.

Giving labels to groups is not my thing and though there may be those who love and those who scoff a wee bit at whatever, we are all in this for our love of traditional style folders and fixed blades. We know there are some lines that cannot be crossed, even if something has been made to faithfully look like a traditional style..!

The Porch is wide and welcoming, hopefuly this is not something to cause anything more than a bit of joshing and ribbing

 

[JD Bear]

I've thought about how I might frame a response for a bit now and I think the conclusions I've made are not so much a direct response to your comments but rather to the quandary these knives present overall. Though I haven't been around long enough to have experienced the birth of GEC, I have been around long enough to see the concept of these "modern" traditionals brought to life and the subsequent impact they have had on the market and surrounding conversations.

With the amount of sour grapes being bandied about these days in conversations surrounding GEC, it is hard to get real excited about their releases currently. Without them though, options are rather limited... Though it isn't an apples to apples comparison, the Maniago cutlery firms present a superb alternative and they provide an unparalleled slipjoint in some of our favorite patterns - it just so happens that they have a modern flair with the materials used and construction methods. However, compared to other modern takes on the slipjoint (Benchmade, ZT, etc.), these Italian firms - under Mike's watchful eye - have produced a number of slipjoints that better embody the traditional form than most, if not all, of their modern contemporaries.

I defer to the mods' stance on this and I think a strong case has been made for why these knives can be displayed here. These are traditional patterns (unlike the Benchmade Proper and the ZT variants) and there is no mistaking the Swayback for anything else or the Sowbelly for a "it-kind-of-looks-like-a-Sowbelly....". They walk-n-talk, they feel like a traditional pocket knife, and aside from the torx head screws, they look like a traditional pocket knife. I think @Misplaced Hillbilly had a good suggestion in that slotted screws would certainly have a more traditional flair - that said, from a gunsmithing perspective, I can already see the multitudes of "idiot" marks...

Personally, I feel that there is certainly a place for these knives on the Porch - even if it is just that little corner where the quiet guy likes to park himself.

I'm with you Dylan. I definitely think they have a place since, for the most part, they're traditional "patterns". I'm in for any new traditionals even if they don't completely fit the mold. I mean, if we were sticking to the perceived definition, how many times can the same patterns be repeated? There is no hidden vault with hundred year old patterns that none of us have ever seen. The one thing that kinda keeps me away is the M390....I like my traditionals easy to sharpen.

 

[JohnDF]

the Maniago cutlery firms present a superb alternative and they provide an unparalleled slipjoint in some of our favorite patterns

I am also excited by this new release as I think it's going to be a great knife and I've been waiting for something to buy since the GEC market has gone crazy.

Compounding the terminology with "traditional in a traditional sense" is a tricky way of holding the definition hostage (just logically, not a knock on you) to some unknown criteria.

I'm a Math Guy, I have troubles with Language.

Thanks to both of you for your responses.
I don't want my "not traditional in the traditional sense" comment to be read as anything other than a departure from traditional methods and materials. It is NOT a knock on the knives themselves, they are bound to be very good pocket cutlery and I'm excited for them. But when you look at them, it's obvious they are a modern take on a traditional pattern.
I'm also not saying that they shouldn't be posted on this forum, I'm simply saying they don't meet my personal criteria for a "traditional" knife and I choose to post mine in other threads pertinent to these particular knives. Everybody else is free to make up their own minds and the mods are free to rule in whichever direction they want. They seem to be finding a home here.

 

[Pàdruig]

I am also excited by this new release as I think it's going to be a great knife and I've been waiting for something to buy since the GEC market has gone crazy.

I'm a Math Guy, I have troubles with Language.

Thanks to both of you for your responses.
I don't want my "not traditional in the traditional sense" comment to be read as anything other than a departure from traditional methods and materials. It is NOT a knock on the knives themselves, they are bound to be very good pocket cutlery and I'm excited for them. But when you look at them, it's obvious they are a modern take on a traditional pattern.
I'm also not saying that they shouldn't be posted on this forum, I'm simply saying they don't meet my personal criteria for a "traditional" knife and I choose to post mine in other threads pertinent to these particular knives. Everybody else is free to make up their own minds and the mods are free to rule in whichever direction they want. They seem to be finding a home here.

I think these sorts of discussions are good. Everyone has their "line" - at what point does it cease to be a traditional knife for an individual?

Personally, if I cannot readily compare it to an existing traditional pattern (in terms of form and function), then it no longer fits my criteria for what makes a "traditional" slipjoint. For example: the ZT 0230 has been posted on the Porch before. It is a slipjoint but it resembles no traditional pattern that I am aware of so therefore I don't find it fitting. I can look at a Viper Sowbelly and say, "That's a Sowbelly - no question!". I think these Italian knives follow the form so well and it is because of this (as well as the fine quality), that I am plenty ok with their acceptance here.

 

[Pàdruig]

The one thing that kinda keeps me away is the M390....I like my traditionals easy to sharpen.

I can relate to this. I do love how infrequently I have to sharpen M390 - I really don't use my pocket knives all that hard though. When it comes to my fixed blades though, I prefer steels like 1095, 5160, AEB-L, and 52100 - due to the ease of sharpening in the field, coupled with their inherent toughness.

I just bought my wife a new custom kitchen knife in 20CV for Christmas and it makes me more than a little nervous. But, after having to sharpen or touch up Cutco knives (with their soft steel) a few times a week for quite some time, it is going to be something else to not have to do much more than strop every now and then.

 

[knifeswapper]

I am also excited by this new release as I think it's going to be a great knife and I've been waiting for something to buy since the GEC market has gone crazy.

I'm a Math Guy, I have troubles with Language.

Thanks to both of you for your responses.
I don't want my "not traditional in the traditional sense" comment to be read as anything other than a departure from traditional methods and materials. It is NOT a knock on the knives themselves, they are bound to be very good pocket cutlery and I'm excited for them. But when you look at them, it's obvious they are a modern take on a traditional pattern.
I'm also not saying that they shouldn't be posted on this forum, I'm simply saying they don't meet my personal criteria for a "traditional" knife and I choose to post mine in other threads pertinent to these particular knives. Everybody else is free to make up their own minds and the mods are free to rule in whichever direction they want. They seem to be finding a home here.

I understood what you were saying and took no offense. My background is Math and Computer Science - and although to be honest I double majored in college in the two; but seldom used the Math other than for the CMPSC in the real world. My career was in the computer science field and, to toot my own horn, I did fairly well. And one thing that helped more than anything in my career (and may possibly hurt in my business) is that I like absolutes. I want one solution/definition to work in all circumstances. If it doesn't you can expect to be re-visiting the solution every time somebody changes the variables. So forgive me if I overly critique wording....

 

[JohnDF]

I want one solution/definition to work in all circumstances.

As a high school math teacher, I completely understand that.

 

[Chui]

I just bought my wife a new custom kitchen knife in 20CV for Christmas and it makes me more than a little nervous. But, after having to sharpen or touch up Cutco knives (with their soft steel) a few times a week for quite some time, it is going to be something else to not have to do much more than strop every now and then.

- good idea, wish you well with that (have to sharpen ours often too)...........and hopefully it'll only ever be that strop involved

 

[Railsplitter]

For me personally, whether a knife is traditional or not matters very little. If I like the knife then that’s all I need to know.

I respect the rules of this sub forum but aside from that, I care very little what category a knife falls under as long as I like the design.

 

[jrawk]

Yes yes yes yes..... This knife is gonna be saweeeet.

 

[Will Power]

On M390 being difficult to sharpen: not with diamonds, the knives I've had in it ALL arrived mesmerisingly sharp (unlike a lot of 'Traditional' knives ) so maintenance is not difficult, it retains its keeness a long long time (think carbon and constant sharpening, no) stropping seems more than effective for maintaining the edge.

It's a wonderful world beyond just carbon

As for screw construction, we all know it dates back a very long time- end of c19th I believe- and the Titanium bolsters and finish of the Torqx screws give it a wonderful subdued bronzed effect that works particularly well with Stag and Horn and no verdigris lurking with ill intent .....

 

[Texoma]

What happen to the new Gunstock discussion , just trying to break the ice, yes it's good traditional/modern slipjoint discussion, valid points and interest. Maybe it's time for BF to add slipjoints to this discussion forum to cover all types, similar to the knife exchange for sale, just my 2 cents. Forums/Knife Specific Discussion/Traditional Folders, Slipjoints and Fixed Blades.

 

[Pàdruig]

What happen to the new Gunstock discussion , just trying to break the ice, yes it's good traditional/modern slipjoint discussion, valid points and interest. Maybe it's time for BF to add slipjoints to this discussion forum to cover all types, similar to the knife exchange for sale, just my 2 cents. Forums/Knife Specific Discussion/Traditional Folders, Slipjoints and Fixed Blades.

It's an interesting suggestion - not without merit either. However, I seem to recall - long before I was around - that the Traditionals sub (The Porch) did not always have its own little corner here. Because there was enough discussion being had in other places in the forums involving traditional cutlery, it was decided to build a sub-forum for it specifically - complete with its own guidelines and such. Because such guidelines have been long established at this point, I don't see expanding on them to be particularly necessary or even all that welcome.

I will use the ZT 0230 as an example again. It is a slipjoint but it is very clearly a modern design with no resemblance to a traditional pocket knife pattern that I am aware of. If we start muddying the waters here too much, then we risk alienating a lot of folks who are here for the enjoyment and discussion of classic, traditional cutlery - be it pocket knives or fixed blades. If slipjoints of a purely modern design get a pass, then who is to say that fixed blades like Busse and such can't get a pass either?

Here is a pic of the ZT I am referring to:

Ultimately, I am of a mind to agree with Railsplitter . I like knives of all types and will discuss them in accordance to the rules in the appropriate sub-forums. There is a reason that The Porch is separate from General Knife Discussion and I would hate to see the lines blur too much.

 

[Pàdruig]

Back to Gunstocks...

I only have one. It is a pattern that hasn't captured me quite yet but I did acquire and hold onto a GEC made one because 1.) it is an example of a close to perfectly made knife from GEC, 2.) it is a unique combination of materials and style, and 3.) I knew I would regret not holding onto one in case it grew on me.

I've been carrying mine the last couple of days and have enjoyed it so far. I am finding that I am using the pen secondary for most of my small everyday tasks but overall, it has been positive.

Here it is - in Will Power 's favorite combination of materials (brass and high carbon steel)

(yesterday's pic)