Clarification on MAP pricing

halflife78

halflife78

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So traveling a lot I have ran into several catagories of dealers:
1. MSRP: everything priced at direct MSRP.
2. MAP: everything priced at MAP.
3. Handshake Pricing: MAP on the tag, will go below this.
4. Whatever price they want.

The reason I bring this up is while traveling today I went into one of my stops that is way below MAP. I asked him how he got away with this and he said that Benchmade's policy is pricing has to be no lower than MAP of any advertisement occurs, but since he does absolutely zero advertising he can put whatever price in his store he wants.

So my question I guess is are dealers allowed to price whatever they want if no advertisement occurs? This dealer said he's been doing it forever and BM knows and as long as he sticks to the above it's fine.
 
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yea that's pretty much the case. they get them at dealer cost and market them at MAP. big box stores sometimes adv msrp.

if you find someone willing to sell below map, make sure to stick with them and don't shop around, he will treat you good.
 
A while back when the MAP sh*t hit the fan another acronym popped up. We all know that MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) only has to do with what price they are showing. People got around this by offering discount codes and stuff after starting to checkout. This has went by the wayside mostly as well. The new acronym was UPP (Unilateral Pricing Policy) and it was to set the minimum price at which a product could be sold. Most people now sell at this minimum price. I know for a fact that NO ONE around me sells below what GPKnives or BladeHQ would have sold. There was a thread a long time ago, I'll try and find it.

It seems the price you pay is up to luck. Some people win the jackpot and live near the smaller rural stores that offer these prices. I'm jealous. I've heard of prices for the Anthem that were well below what I paid.

http://www.bladeforums.com/threads/am-i-the-only-one-confused-about-benchmade-prices.1178129/
Start reading this for more info. It gets to the point around post 11.
 
So I was out with the wife for dinner and I found another shop in there area, except this one was really big and sold all sorts of brands. They had Anthem's at $357 so I asked how they put tags on their knives like that and I got the same common ent, that it's allowed as long as it's not advertised publicly.

So apparently selling under MAP is allowed as long as it's not posted publicly anywhere, unless I have 2 large dealers telling me fibs.

Last shop was cool, they had a bin of BM parts they let people take stuff for free from, I grabbed a bunch of deep pocket clips.

Both also said BM knows how they mark them, one said his rep will be in the store next week as he had to do a new huge order.
 
Been in retailing for multiple companies for 20+ years, so here is the long story.

Retailers are free to sell at any price they wish, period, any brands/manufacturers/distributors directly stating otherwise is price fixing an FTC anti-trust violation and therefore illegal in the US. Remember Apple and book pricing colluding with wholesalers/distributors to fix the price of books?

BUT.....certain brands/manufacturers/distributors use kickbacks/givebacks/advertising/coop/payouts to incent retailers to price according to an advertising policy or lose that portion of funding from the brand/manufacturer/distributor. This occurs with Knives, Apparel, Cars, and many other goods sold in the US. This is how brands/manufacturers/distributors get around price fixing as the retailer can advertise price however they like, but if they do, the kickbacks/givebacks/advertising/coop/payouts go away. And retailers can sell for whatever they want, they just can't advertise as such and keep their payouts. Which is why some websites make you add the item to the cart to see the price as that is according to their MAP policy with the brand/manufacturer/distributor, the cart isn't an advertisement, but the item page is.

The finances are generally like this: Brand/Manufacturer/Distributor adds these kickbacks/givebacks/advertising/coop/payouts to the cost of their goods, and retailers who play ball on advertising price receive them and will be more profitable than retailers who do not play ball on advertising price. Generally there are agreed windows where lower than MAP pricing is acceptable, so all retailers selling that product are on on sale at the same time. Retailers are also incentivized to police other retailers with regard to advertising and turn them in, which again keeps an even playing field on pricing. The funny part is if their product is that great and priced credibly, why the need for MAP pricing at all? It's because the pricing is generally not reflective of value, performance, and/or other attributes that would validate the price as being realistic, so one will look for a sale or elsewhere for a better price. Especially if the item used to be at a lower price or had a sale at lower price you've seen.

My example is a performance pant I like from a national brand. The pant retails everywhere for $89 and while it's a great pant, I know 3-4 times a year for a few weeks everyone (Amazon, REI, Backcountry, etc.) has it for $59. For me it's a $59 for that reason alone, so I wait for the advertising window and buy it then. Would I pay $89 for that pant, yes it's that great for my needs, but the pricing is not credible due to the $59 price almost 3 months out of the year.
 
Since price fixing is illegal, they basically said a dealer can sell their items at whatever price they want to, but they reserve the right to refuse to sell to anyone that sells below a certain price. Pretty much equates to price fixing if you ask me, but I guess the way the law is written, they're able to manipulate the wording of their policy and get away with it.

That being said, I've run across several local stores (authorized dealers) that have price tags on their knives that are lower than the standard 15% off of MSRP. I've also been in others where the store owner said he couldn't put price tags on his knives that are lower than that 15% off limit or his Benchmade representative would report him and he would be cut off. The term "advertising" isn't clearly defined, so different people have different interpretations.

Edit: Actually after just reading their policy, I see that they do say "advertised, promoted, offered, or sold below UPP price", so I guess it is pretty clearly defined, some people still do it with no repercussions though.

Below is the actual Benchmade policy.
 

Attachments

Ok, some of the above explains why I see what I see. I have found 2 places consistently at 30% off and one jumping in and out of 30%. Also have one that does Almost 35% off 3 times a year roughly.

I never see this online though, it's all local and it's never advertised, I came across all of them by going to every BM dealer I could find.

Edit. In reference to the UPP above, both shops I talked to said their reps know they price like they do and have zero issues with it. One of the guys basically said "I pay for these damn things up front, I will sell them for what the hell I want to.":eek:
 
Yea they don't advertise anything below 15% off at any authorized online retailer. I believe New Graham Knives tested them by selling below that back when they first implemented the policy and Benchmade cut em off. When they had the HK line, it wasn't governed by that policy, so dealers could sell those for whatever they wanted to, but they quit making them now.
 
-Corey- said:
Yea they don't advertise anything below 15% off at any authorized online retailer. I believe New Graham Knives tested them by selling below that back when they first implemented the policy and Benchmade cut em off. When they had the HK line, it wasn't governed by that policy, so dealers could sell those for whatever they wanted to, but they quit making them now.
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Yep, the guy today told me the second he advertises he's violating policy, slapping a $358 tag on a Anthem in his store and never advertising it is fine. He said he never puts his knives online, local ads, etc.
 
halflife78 said:
Yep, the guy today told me the second he advertises he's violating policy, slapping a $358 tag on a Anthem in his store and never advertising it is fine. He said he never puts his knives online, local ads, etc.
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heard dealer prices for the anthem is about $250.
 
Locally, I can walk out the door with an Anthem for $352. That's tax and all.
 
This price discrepancy is very frustrating. I payed nearly $460 out the door for an Anthem and that was after arguing to get it down to the really high "online" price. They wanted $500 before tax but eventually price matched BladeHQ. It was my most expensive purchase rivaling my CRK's. It was hard to let go of that much money. Keep in mind we were traveling when I was looking for the Anthem. I hit over 8 dealers in 5 states... All of the stores had the same price and seemed offended when I attempted to negotiate even 5% off. Some knifes in these had been there forever... just waiting for some sucker to pay. I had Anthem fever and caved in after nearly 10 strike outs and payed the $425 plus tax. I love the knife but know that was more than it's value.

Now, knowing what has been posted above I have an issue. I had TOTALLY STOPPED BUYING Benchmade due to actual quality issues I saw in store. Also, BM's are priced a bit on the higher side of things. I didn't buy for about two years. Then, I managed to find a great 940-1, an 810 and the 781. I was back baby, loving my Benchmade blades!!!

I'm so turned off how they conduct their pricing strategy and the chaos it generates. It's been on my mind for a day now. I will surely keep the great knives I have, I LOVE THEM, but I am TOTALLY 100% DONE WITH BENCHMADE.

I hope they stay in business so a warranty still exists for what I have, but I will have no more. I get shopping around for the best price. I may go to Wal-Mart, Target and Best Buy before getting a TV. However, they are all within 20 minutes of here and prices are close to the same. Why should I need a plane ticket and a weekend to get a good buy on a Benchmade.

Benchmade is a lot like the police of today. They are really good and want to do what's right but they have a MASSIVE public image problem. This pricing bullshit is another black eye. Oh, Benchmade is also like a Spyder because they have at least 8 black eyes now... (/rant)
 
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I know cutlery Shoppe also tried doing a coupon code/add to cart for price, but that was quickly quashed by Benchmade.
 
Honed_Edge said:
This price discrepancy is very frustrating. I payed nearly $460 out the door for an Anthem and that was after arguing to get it down to the really high "online" price. They wanted $500 before tax but eventually price matched BladeHQ. It was my most expensive purchase rivaling my CRK's. It was hard to let go of that much money. Keep in mind we were traveling when I was looking for the Anthem. I hit over 8 dealers in 5 states... All of the stores had the same price and seemed offended when I attempted to negotiate even 5% off. Some knifes in these had been there forever... just waiting for some sucker to pay. I had Anthem fever and caved in after nearly 10 strike outs and payed the $425 plus tax. I love the knife but know that was more than it's value.

Now, knowing what has been posted above I have an issue. I had TOTALLY STOPPED BUYING Benchmade due to actual quality issues I saw in store. Also, BM's are priced a bit on the higher side of things. I didn't buy for about two years. Then, I managed to find a great 940-1, an 810 and the 781. I was back baby, loving my Benchmade blades!!!

I'm so turned off how they conduct their pricing strategy and the chaos it generates. It's been on my mind for a day now. I will surely keep the great knives I have, I LOVE THEM, but I am TOTALLY 100% DONE WITH BENCHMADE.

I hope they stay in business so a warranty still exists for what I have, buy I will have no more. I get shopping around for the best price. I may go to Wal-Mart, Target and Best Buy before getting a TV. However, they are all within 20 minutes of here and prices are close to the same. Why should I need a plane ticket and a weekend to get a good buy on a Benchmade.

Benchmade is a lot like the police of today. They are really good and want to do what's right but they have a MASSIVE public image problem. This pricing bullshit is another black eye. Oh, Benchmade is also like a Spyder because they have at least 8 black eyes now... (/rant)
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Lots of knife manufacturers have the same policy. It supposedly is meant to help brick and mortar stores be able to compete with the bigger outlets, but they shouldn't need a 70-100% markup in order to be profitable.
 
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