Cleaning Old Randalls - Discussion Invited

alabamafats

alabamafats

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Cleaning Randalls is a broad subject area. I favor a coat of Renaissance Wax, for a collectable new or recent. Cleaning old Randalls is a whole different ball of wax.

I do not think patina on blades should be cleaned, or attempted to be cleaned. Verdigris on brass - left from remaining in a tanned leather sheath for example - is damaging to the brass it effects and can and will etch and corrode the metal. Thus I feel like green verdigris should be removed.

Question is how to do it...... A bright spot is left when the green is removed, particularly if a polish is used in removal. That doesn't look to good on an old and cherished collectable (I think). Does anyone have thoughts on this issue? Should such green be removed? If so, how? I have once used a toothpick and tiny wad of Never Dull on the end to gently rub such green away - slowly and carefully, of course - but that still left a bright spot where the green had been removed.

Would it be better to just go ahead and polish the whole thing (such as a double brass hilt)?

I would sure enjoy and benefit from some informed discussion. With the wealth of knowledge and experience in this forum we might be able to come up with a good idea and lessons learned... Thanks for the consideration. Respectfully and with Best Regards, alabamafats.
 
You could try a lighter abrasive such as simichrome to start, then move up to tormek if you want a lower grit polish.

For me, I find then distinction between restoration and conservation to be useful. Conservation takes steps to maintain the working utility of the object. Restoration removes evidence of age. In this case, you are conserving the guard because you are removing pitting, which left unchecked will spread. I personally would polish enough to create an even appearance on the guard because I like the way it looks and this makes it easier to maintain the guard’s integrity down the line through less-invasive maintenance. But it is up to you how far you want to go. If you start at the least invasive steps first you can always stop at any point and you’ll have kept it as close to your starting point as possible.
 
If your RANDALL is HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT like a WW2, Korea, or Vietnam era knife.... DO NOT CLEAN IT. Do not ruin a historic artifact. The coin collector in me cringes with dismay every time I see Vietnam or worse... a WW2 era Randall that's been cleaned. Congratulations, you have annihilated the value and historical significance.

Just a light coat of oil on the blade, hilt, and brass is enough. Maybe ren wax.... but be careful wiping it off and make sure to use a soft and clean cloth that will not add any scratches to the knife.

Rant over.
 
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My natural inclination is in full agreement with you. Your points are well made and strong ones. I must say however, that I am still worried about the effects of green verdigris on some brass features. If such is left in place it can continue to eat into the metal - thus causing possibly worse and permanent damage. This makes me consider a third category of care: Preservation. Box Opener sure made good point regarding restoration and conservation and now I think the act of preservation must preceed either restoration or conservation. Thing I've got to ponder now is still green verdigris removal to prevent further metal destruction - within the bounds of not altering a true collectable.

I agree the best and first approach to the practical problem is just a light coat of oil and very careful wiping. Thanks for sharing the thoughts and insights, they will indeed help guide me and I sincerely appreciate your
experience. af.
 
DistortionSlayer said:
If your RANDALL is HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT like a WW2, Korea, or Vietnam era knife.... DO NOT CLEAN IT. Do not ruin a historic artifact. The coin collector in me cringes with dismay every time I see Vietnam or worse... a WW2 era Randall that's been cleaned. Congratulations, you have annihilated the value and historical significance.

Just a light coat of oil on the blade, hilt, and brass is enough. Maybe ren wax.... but be careful wiping it off and make sure to use a soft and clean cloth that will not add any scratches to the knife.

Rant over
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I absolutely agree. Preservation work is still done on historical objects but it is done by professional conservators. It depends on the object but they would very likely remove brass decay since it will lead to continuing degradation. But their toolkit is larger and more precise than someone without their training.

alabamafats alabamafats , you could always write Randall through their customer service email and ask. They’ll be able to tell you about your knife and can recommend a preservation step to take on the brass.
 
The green has to come off. Do it gently. Finger nail tooth pick, something soft.

I would then do as Box_Opener Box_Opener said, polish it to a consistent surface. The brass will get a new patina in no time.

The steel blades? knock off any active red rust with a dry brass scraper or pencil lead. No steel wool or sandpaper.

Then oil it. The patina will be preserved.

Best thing is to start with junkier knives, trying different techniques and seeing the results.

I started cleaning junkie knives when I was about 10 years old.
 
I do believe you have very neatly and succinctly laid out my plan of attack. It will be done...... Thank you and thanks also to Box Opener and Distortion Slayer. I will endeavor to post some pictures of my subject pinned stag 3 - 7". To my less than expert eye it seems to be an early 60s knife with Brown Button Heiser Sheath. More to follow. And of course as always I am grateful for input, advice and opinion. af
 
I have 4 newly acquired Randalls that i will be going over soon. So this is helpful.

What about cleaning the green off rhe sheath?
 
I have seen other have success by using slightly diluted white vinegar on damp cloth and wipe away verdigris. The worse the problem, the wetter the vinegar cloth might have to be. Follow by wiping with damp clean cloth, let air dry, and apply mild leather protector. The wrong stuff, or too much of it, can stain permanently or even loosen leather fibers so be very controlled and the best of luck.

It would be of benefit to others for you to follow up with a information on how things went, products/tools used, and in general, what success or problems you had. Pictures are always appreciated.
 
rc51kid said:
I have 4 newly acquired Randalls that i will be going over soon. So this is helpful.

What about cleaning the green off rhe sheath?
Click to expand...

I’ve had luck with saddle soap. It’s made to clean leather. I don’t see why using vinegar then a damp cloth wouldn’t work either.
 
Early model 3 - 7" (early 60s I'm guessing - opinions sought and welcomed). Not as much verdigris as I thought was on the knife. The photos show some around the brass hilt (of course) and a small spot on the left side of the blade. Lots of verdigris on the inside of the sheath strap and on the metal brown button part of the snaps. Hope the pictures make it.

I gently touched the largest spot of verdigris on the hilt and it flaked right off onto my finger, leaving a small bright spot behind on the brass. I will very gently clear the remainder off the front of the hilt and with the softest most gentle thing I can find I will rub the brass to create a uniform patina to leave in place. (Not polishing it, just trying to make a place for time to act uniformly.

I will use a small piece of Never Dull to gently remove the spot of green on the blade. Won't use vinegar or anything else that night darken the carbon steel.

On the leather where verdigris has formed I will used either or diluted white vinegar or saddle soap (and maybe both). Attached are pictures as I unpacked it. I'll add one more edition after cleaning (if I don't embarrass myself in the attempt that is.....)
 

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I appreciate this post. I believe this knife is a "Model 16 Special fighter" with a Patrol handle. I gently wiped the green off with just a soft cloth. Would you guys clean this stain and how would you go about it?
0mB58lJ.jpeg
 
I just did the same thing on an older Model3 -7". I ended up cleaning (almost a polishing) the entire hilt in order to achieve a uniform surface for new patina to form. Still can't clearly decide in my mind if that is better or if it is better to just leave it to nature (for an old an collectable knife).

Not much help, I know. I would start by just rubbing with a soft cotton cloth over the entire hilt area to see if you can make it all look even, before having to resort to any more aggressive cleaning or polishing... Good Luck.
 
Me too, Steve - But I used the Flitz or Simichrome and Recaissance Wax on pretty much only new Randalls that needed a buff-up or good cleaning going into the collection. On older Randalls, that have some collector potential or interest I have mainly used Never-Dull as a gentle cleaner - usually followed by the Renaissance Wax.
I recently cleaned an older Model 3 with pinned stag and used Never-Dull to cleanup after verdigris removal. It cleaned well, but did not shine and polish as of course Flitz or Simichrome does.
Interesting subject. Nice to hear your thoughts and experience. alabamafats.
 
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