Clients and Makers and Deposits, Oh My!

I rarely make to order these days,and IF I do from time to time ,it's generally only for existing/previous clients,so I know they are serious,not just keyboard shoppers,therefore no deposit is necessary...as for the others wanting a custom from me,usually (if the idea grabs me) I just note the kind of piece they are after and offer to put them on my mailing list so I can notify them when something along those lines comes up (Muse dependant lol),so once again,no deposit necessary because if they don't take it,the next one on the list will...this system has worked for me well over the years and keeps everyone happy,I get to make what I want,when I want,and no customer gets burnt...taking deposits is the fastest way to fall down a very deep hole and have seen a number of guys doing just that...not me thank you
 
Again, I'm not going to divulge this guys name and y'all can cuss me all you want but that's how it is....don't give anyone any money up front and you won't have to worry about it.

Wise words indeed for any newbie collectors out there Dudley.
All of us who have been at this for some time have been where you are.
The names of some of the knifemakers I have had conflict with over deposits and unmade knives would shock most people.
Like you I now refuse to give any meaningful amount upfront other than a token payment to get onto a list ($50-00 or less)
I hope you get sorted out in full otherwise I suggest a GBU thread as a warning for all the BF members who may go down the same path as you with this individual.
 
As a buyer coming into custom knife purchases I was always surprised that no one wanted some money up front. I understand better now and have stopped relating the business of custom knife making to my business of custom furniture/cabinet building. They ARE different.

STILL - when I ask for a custom knife I am typically asking for a design/build of a style that should readily sell to any discerning client looking for something better than a stock knife - a great knife, made by a reputable (nearly always, BladeForums) maker. I'm pretty comfortable that if I couldn't buy when the knife was ready, for any reason, I would not be sticking the maker with other than the nuisance of having to sell a "sold" knife.

IF on the other hand I were to ask for a super high custom with exotic materials, complex laminated blades, high degree of finish and then too boot, a likewise sophisticated sheath - this knife being eccentric to my style and taste - I would not have any hesitation to pay a deposit up front - at the very least - for all the materials. I would think this request, by a custom maker, to be completely reasonable. YES, I would expect a steady stream of WIP photos and/or reports with a timeline for completion. I would even be in favor of a WIP payment to keep up with the effort.

Stuff happens - delays and shifting circumstances abound in life - so open and steady correspondence between maker and buyer would be essential.

I think a lot of you guys work more for love than prosperity :( so I thank you. :thumbsup:

Ray
 
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So I just asked if that maker I referred to had any progress pictures on hand and he replied

"I'll have it ready to ship by next Friday"

But I was actually hoping for a picture and not trying to rush him. Seems weird, like maybe he hasn't started it yet...

Thoughts?
 
While I typically don't mind putting down a deposit for a knife, I have found that the amount of deposit a maker asks for is very closely inversely correlated with the quality and timeliness of their work. I guess the makers that make good stuff know their stuff is good and will sell quickly if the customer changes his mind. Because of that, I'm shying away from makers that do want deposits, unless they otherwise have stellar reputations.
 
"I'll have it ready to ship by next Friday"

Thoughts?
He's been prompted enough that he wants you DONE. Fortunately you are talking about weeks. That's a good thing! Keep us posted.

I'm probably like him: I don't like any negatives or disappointments, so getting them out of the way becomes a priority.
 
So I just asked if that maker I referred to had any progress pictures on hand and he replied

"I'll have it ready to ship by next Friday"

But I was actually hoping for a picture and not trying to rush him. Seems weird, like maybe he hasn't started it yet...

Thoughts?
He hasn't started it yet. Keep after him, the squeaky wheel is the one who gets the grease, usually.
 
I see the down payment covering a few things in regards to making a custom knife. I am not saying I support one method or another but these are the reasons I come up with for the practice.

#1 Covering material cost/investment: This offsets the financial investment in the production of the knife to alleviate financial stress. I don't think financial stress is a foreign concept to anyone here regardless of whether they are a maker, buyer, or supplier.
#2 Buyer commitment: It helps to set a level of commitment to you from the buyer as they are less apt to walk away from something they themselves have already invested in.

I will add neither of these reasons justify returning to the customer and requesting additional funds unless the buyer makes additional request of the custom work that changes the project. I would say that anyone who has this as a part of their business practice needs to have a set formula for how they come up with the amount so that it is not some arbitrary number subject to change as needed through out the project.

Given Dawkind Dawkind 's story and other often horror stories of waiting year or more for a knife I question how long it takes to make a single knife I can't see it taking a full year and it only being worth $1,000 let alone 2 & 1/2 years that would come to less than $40/month for Dawkind Dawkind . I know for me financially if that were a full time work $1,000 before expenses would probably not even cover 1 week of personal expenses. I know many open their books and have a rough idea of what they can complete within a year and take that many orders and it may stretch into the next year some as problems and life come this also is more cause to have the down payment if you are looking at having nothing but balances paid for the next 12-18 months. It all is a matter of how you operate your business as to what methods work for you and any method requires any amount of funds up front needs a level of consistency and nothing hidden from the buyer. I know I have rambled a bit and mostly defending the practice but little has been said in defense of it so :p
 
No deposits here. No harm, no foul if the buyer backs out. What I ask for in return is patience/understanding that I'm part time and may not turn something around as quickly as desired.

I don't do this for income, though I try to turn a profit; I do this for stress relief. I'm not going to add more stress by taking people's money up front, scheduling due dates for something I don't even know how many hours I'll have into, or committing to projects I frankly don't want to do, don't feel capable of doing, or whatever.

I want my customers to have low risk buying from me, and I manage how much risk I'm willing to take on. I know that's a lot harder for full time makers, and that's one of the many reasons I'll never be one.
 
As a buyer if I did pay a deposit I'd have expectations on product and delivery.
If I was a maker/seller I would not want the issues that are inherently attached to
Deposits. Good read. Dozier (not Bob)
 
As a maker i take deposits unless i have the materials in stock.
Keeps a fire under my ass to get stuff done in a timely or somewhat timely fashion. I know i go against the grain here, but this works for me. I send progress pics to my customers as much as i can.
Im admittedly slower than i would like to be, but i am not full time yet.

This is especially true for hard to source steels or materials. They pay me 30-40% upfront and within 1 or 2 business days the materials and belts are ordered. (Typically its ordered minutes after the payment)
I do my best to keep my customers happy!
 
I gave a deposit to a knifemaker on facebook who seemed to need the business due to a new baby etc... he was incredibly responsive and once he had my money in hand he went silent except to post pictures of the knives he has been making and the announcement of a new line of boutique knives he designed. I consider this a lesson that I will not repeat and he blew the opportunity to win over a new proponent for his business.
 
Hi everybody
I have an experience a little inverse to yours, on a show in Paris a foreign cutler for which, I spotted the work teases my eyes, he has on his table a large knife demonstration, but not for sale ( it happens ) .
I offer him to remake the same, he agrees and by way of good faith, I pay him the knife in advance ...
Paris knife show 2009, I'm still waiting, despite several stimulus from me. Should I mention his name and shout it on the roofs no, know him, I know

Ps: I find it normal in certain cases to pay a sum of money in advance. I propose it myself often.
I am not bitter and I always trust
 
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The idea of not taking deposits has always baffled me, I can certainly understand if the waiting list is more than a few months why that would become an issue. But I have been full time for over five years and singly supported myself with my income, then married, and bought a home. I do not have a big waiting list as I have never allowed one to develop, and I have only ever been late on a deadline to a customer once (by a matter of a few days of quoted time). I sell a lot of production knives and customers or businesses will place the order for the product and pay the full price plus shipping, then within a week to a week and half it is on their door. For custom work I typically request a 50% deposit to cover the materials (as I am normally using damascus, fossil ivory, etc.) I was only ever burned once by a customer not paying for their work and that was enough for me. This system has worked very well for me with essentially no problems. It's standard practice in pretty much every other business so I not sure why it isn't the case in the knife world?
 
if you have been waiting since 2009 we would like to hear his name :)
Sincerely, I will not do that, the guy is still active and I do not honestly think it brings me comfort .I just hope it's a transient error on his part ...

an error of 700 € anyway:(
 
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Hi everybody
I have an experience a little inverse to yours, on a show in Paris a foreign cutler for which, I spotted the work teases my eyes, he has on his table a large knife demonstration, but not for sale ( it happens ) .
I offer him to remake the same, he agrees and by way of good faith, I pay him the knife in advance ...
Paris knife show 2009, I'm still waiting, despite several stimulus from me. Should I mention his name and shout it on the roofs no, know him, I know

Ps: I find it normal in certain cases to pay a sum of money in advance. I propose it myself often.
I am not bitter and I always trust

Sincerely, I will not do that, the guy is still active and I do not honestly think it brings me comfort .I just hope it's a transient error on his part ...

an error of 700 € anyway:(

Trust...but verify........
 
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