Colorado 3.5" Law and the Large Sebenza

9000 Feet

9000 Feet

Gold Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2005
Messages
235
Ok guys, this is obviously a question I will ask appropriately when the time comes... however I thought some of you might have first hand experience and can clarify for me.

I am moving to Colorado in 2 weeks. The law states 3.5 inches is the limit. The Large Sebenza cutting edge is 3.5", however, the blade to handle is 3.625.

Can I carry a Large Sebenza LEGALLY in Colorado? I searched around and just want to hear what all you CRK enthusiasts and maybe even any CO LEO's have to say on this subject. Especially people who actually live there.


I do have small Sebenzas, and an Inkosi, but generally speaking if it is my choice I am a Large Sebenza guy. I was also planning to gift a Sebenza 25 to a good friend who helped me secure a rental house in CO, but now I'm considering a small.

Thanks all.
T
 
Last edited:
I know nothing about it other than the math. 3.625" is not 3.5" and thus I would say not legally. I doubt it would ever be a problem unless it was involved in a crime or you pissed off a real hard ass cop.
Looking forward to see the opinions of those in the area.
 
Depends where you live in Colorado. I live in Golden, CO for 41 years and my daily carry is Spyderco Bradley Bowie and south fork and a few folders. Never once have I had an issue with the police....even been frisked in Lakewood and I had a crkt Kasper folder at the time. The LEO liked it so much he asked where he could get one. Now, Denver metro is uber strict about folding knife sizes, Denver LEOs can't even carry an auto.
My personal experience with Colorado knife laws is that your intent with your knife is important, and you can carry fixed blades as long as they are not concealed. I know that experience does not equate to legality but I have never had an issue with my choice of carry....subject to change per individual LEOs interpretation but again 41 years and not a single bad experience on confiscation. Rural areas of Colorado you can pretty much open carry anything.
All of this said, I think discretion is a key factor in your carry choices...Colorado is home to Spyderco and the police model is way popular and it is bigger than 3.5inches.
 
I wouldn't worry about it at all! As long as you're not doing something stupid with your knife the cops aren't going to bother you.

You have more important things to worry about before you move. I envy you being able to move

to Colorado.
 
We are beyond excited and I consider myself pretty darn lucky being in the situation I'm in.

I'm not worried about this at all really, just wanted to ask to see what people had to say. I have choices for sure and believe me I'm not sweating it.
 
Ah I'm visiting coloardo tomorrow and was bringing my sebenza 25 large.. hopefully it won't be an issue!
 
I hope you enjoy it here in Colorado. I was in the Navy, visited lots of wonderful places and had many job opportunities in other places.....I still came back home to beautiful Colorado.
Just an hour or so ago I went to Wells Fargo in Wheat Ridge and two other guys in bank were carrying fixed blades and the security guard didn't even blink....I only had 5 knives on me at the time and still no reaction from the guard and the bank was robbed in the last week, so yeah, I'd say we do have knife laws but Colorado is a pretty chill state for us knife knuts.
Happy knife carrying to you in your new home
 
Catabis said:
I hope you enjoy it here in Colorado. I was in the Navy, visited lots of wonderful places and had many job opportunities in other places.....I still came back home to beautiful Colorado.
Just an hour or so ago I went to Wells Fargo in Wheat Ridge and two other guys in bank were carrying fixed blades and the security guard didn't even blink....I only had 5 knives on me at the time and still no reaction from the guard and the bank was robbed in the last week, so yeah, I'd say we do have knife laws but Colorado is a pretty chill state for us knife knuts.
Happy knife carrying to you in your new home
Click to expand...

Off topic ?- is it normal to have guards in the banks. I remember them from when I was young in OH, but Florida banks don't seem to have them(at least not visibly, but I don't think they have them at all).
 
I'm pretty sure Denver has a 3" municipal law. I'm in Buena Vista in the Summers and I visit the city a few times a Summer. I carry a 3" folder when I visit the city and I just make sure my pocketed knife's clip is clearly visible in more rural areas.
 
As has already been said, just don't be an idiot and get arrested. :rolleyes: I routinely carry a blade larger than 3.5", and don't even think twice about it. Most cops are not going to give you a hard time unless you are being stupid. I have a CHL and carry most of the time, so if I were to ever get asked, the knife is just a tool as my CCW is my weapon.

Downtown Denver might be a different story. Denver cops can be a bit overzealous, and have been known to ask to see your knife to check it if they see a pocketclip. I once got asked, and the clip he noticed (and pointed to) was actually my flashlight. I showed him my knife anyway (a Delica clipped in my back pocket), and all he did was measure it using the palm of his hand. :rolleyes: I teased the officer a bit asking him if he had a ruler on his hand, and he just laughed, told me it was nice knife, gave it back and told me to have a nice day.
 
Laws are for courtrooms.

What you really want to know is how will cops react and apply their understanding of the law. As has been pointed out, if you are not the target of their inspection, you have little to worry about. How often to you interact with cops where you are now?

Generally speaking, criminals do not use expensive cutlery for crime. So if you have a CRK, I am guessing you are not using it for crime. Don't act like a twit, and you will likely be fine. That said, (and somewhat regardless of your location and the laws in effect there) you are at the mercy of the LEO you encounter. Be polite, civil and intelligent and unless you are dealing with a person having a seriously bad day or fluffy ego, you will be fine.
 
Peter Hartwig said:
Off topic ?- is it normal to have guards in the banks. I remember them from when I was young in OH, but Florida banks don't seem to have them(at least not visibly, but I don't think they have them at all).
Click to expand...

The bank was robbed in the last 1.5 weeks so, no its not normal to have a sec guard in a bank, but when you've been robbed I guess it kinda makes sense....sort of. The guard didn't even have a knife on him, no gun, no cuffs. Just a uniform, beer gut and shiny shoes.

I'm pretty sure Denver has a 3" municipal law. Well at least according to the written laws for Colorado, it states that 3.5 inches is the max, but again it does not state for municipalities, but I go to knife shows and such and have spoken to Denver LEOs and they told me that 3.5 was the max for a folder. Colorado law says that a fixed blade can be of any length as long as it is a sport or hunting blade. This clause is called the affirmative defense and must be mentioned as such. After which the burden of proof is on the prosecution to prove that your INTENT is to commit a crime.

Here is the laws for Colorado (shortened to fit 15000 word limit):
Colorado - Criminal Code Section 18-12-101. Definitions...
(e) "Gravity knife" means any knife that has a blade
released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of
gravity or the application of centrifugal force, that when
released is locked into place by means of a button,
spring, lever, or other device... (f) "Knife" means any
dagger, dirk, knife, or stiletto with a blade over 3-1/2
inches in length, or any other dangerous instrument
capable of inflicting cutting, stabbing, or tearing
wounds, but does not include a hunting or fishing knife
carried for sports use. The issue that a knife is a
hunting or fishing knife must be raised as an affirmative
defense. (j) "Switchblade knife" means any knife, the
blade of which opens automatically by hand pressure
applied to a button, spring, or other device in its
handle... (a.3) "Ballistic knife" means any knife that has
a blade which is forcefully projected from the handle by
means of a spring-loaded device or explosive charge.


- 18-12-102. Possessing a dangerous or illegal weapon - affirmative defense.
(1) As used in this section, the term "dangerous weapon" means a firearm silencer, machine gun, short shotgun, short rifle, or ballistic knife.
(2) As used in this section, the term "illegal weapon" means a blackjack, gas gun, metallic knuckles, gravity knife, or switchblade knife.
(3) A person who knowingly possesses a dangerous weapon commits a class 5 felony. Each subsequent violation of this subsection (3) by the same person shall be a class 4 felony.
(4) A person who knowingly possesses an illegal weapon commits a class 1 misdemeanor.
(5) It shall be an affirmative defense to the charge of possessing a dangerous weapon, or to the charge of possessing an illegal weapon, that the person so accused was a peace officer or member of the armed forces of the United States or Colorado National Guard acting in the lawful discharge of his duties, or that said person has a valid permit and license for possession of such weapon.

- 18-12-105. Unlawfully carrying a concealed weapon - unlawful possession of weapons.

(1) A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if such person knowingly and unlawfully:
(a) Carries a knife concealed on or about his or her person; or
(b) Carries a firearm concealed on or about his or her person; or
(c) Without legal authority, carries, brings, or has in such person's possession a firearm or any explosive, incendiary, or other dangerous device on the property of or within any building in which the chambers, galleries, or offices of the general assembly, or either house thereof, are located, or in which a legislative hearing or meeting is being or is to be conducted, or in which the official office of any member, officer, or employee of the general assembly is located.
(d) (Deleted 1993.)
(2) It shall not be an offense if the defendant was:
(a) A person in his or her own dwelling or place of business or on property owned or under his or her control at the time of the act of carrying; or
(b) A person in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance who carries a weapon for lawful protection of such person's or another's person or property while traveling; or
(c) A person who, at the time of carrying a concealed weapon, held a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon issued pursuant to section 18-12-105.1, as it existed prior to its repeal, or, if the weapon involved was a handgun, held a valid permit to carry a concealed handgun or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article; except that it shall be an offense under this section if the person was carrying a concealed handgun in violation of the provisions of section 18-12-214; or
(d) A peace officer, as described in section 16-2.5-101, C.R.S., when carrying a weapon in conformance with the policy of the employing agency as provided in section 16-2.5-101 (2), C.R.S.; or
(e) (Deleted 2003.)
(f) A United States probation officer or a United States pretrial services officer while on duty and serving in the state of Colorado under the authority of rules and regulations promulgated by the judicial conference of the United States.


Colorado Case Law:

18-12-101

Definition of "knife" in subsection (1)(f) is not void for vagueness or overbreadth. Where defendant possessed a screwdriver with specific intent to use it as a weapon, elements of crime defined in § 18-12-108 were present. People v. Gross, 830 P.2d 933 (Colo. 1992).

Defendant's intent to use an object as a weapon is not established by the object's appearance alone, even if the appearance demonstrates that its primary use is as a weapon; this test does not follow Gross and is contrary to the plain language of the concealed weapons statute. A.P.E. v. People, 20 P.3d 1179 (Colo. 2001).

The definition of "knife" in subsection (1)(f) is sufficiently specific to give fair warning of the proscribed conduct and is therefore constitutional. In applying the definition under § 18-12-108, the prosecution must prove that one of the intended uses of the instrument by the defendant was as a weapon. People v. Gross, 830 P.2d 933 (Colo. 1992).

As the term "knife" is not specifically defined in the deadly weapons statute, the meaning of "knife" anywhere it is used in this article is specifically limited by the definition contained in subsection (1)(f) regardless of cross reference to the broader deadly weapons statute. People ex rel. J.W.T., 93 P.3d 580 (Colo. App. 2004).

Applied in Miller v. District Court, 193 Colo. 404, 566 P.2d 1063 (1977).



18-12-102

Cross references: For affirmative defenses generally, see §§ 18-1-407, 18-1-710, and 18-1-805.

Annotations

Am. Jur.2d. See 79 Am. Jur.2d, Weapons and Firearms, §§ 4-8, 28.

C.J.S. See 94 C.J.S., Weapons, §§ 3-10.


18-12-105

Am. Jur.2d. See 79 Am. Jur.2d, Weapons and Firearms, §§ 12-14, 16.

C.J.S. See 94 C.J.S., Weapons, §§ 9, 10.

Recognition of § 13 of art. II, Colo. Const. Section 13 of art. II, Colo. Const., has limiting language dealing with defense of home, person, and property. These limitations have been recognized by the general assembly in the enactment of this section, which restricts the right to bear arms in certain circumstances, while permitting in other circumstances the carrying of a concealed weapon in defense of home, person, and property, and also when specifically authorized by written permit. People v. Blue, 190 Colo. 95, 544 P.2d 385 (1975).

The words "about the person" means sufficiently close to the person to be readily accessible for immediate use. People in Interest of R.J.A., 38 Colo. App. 346, 556 P.2d 491 (1976).

The scope of subsection (2)(b) is clarified in § 18-12-105.6, which indicates the general assembly's intent that local ordinances on carrying weapons in private vehicles be preempted only insofar as they conflict with the provisions of § 18-12-105.6. Trinen v. City & County of Denver, 53 P.3d 754 (Colo. App. 2002).

The local ordinance concerning carrying a weapon in a private vehicle is not preempted since it can be harmonized with subsection (2)(b). Trinen v. City & County of Denver, 53 P.3d 754 (Colo. App. 2002).

Pistol tucked under edge of car seat. Where uncontested evidence established that pistol was tucked under the edge of a car seat on which petitioner was sitting, where it was within his easy reach, these circumstances constitute carrying a "firearm concealed on or about his person". People in Interest of R.J.A., 38 Colo. App. 346, 556 P.2d 491 (1976).

Question of whether weapon is concealed is question of fact for the jury which should not be summarily determined by the trial judge at the time that he rules on the defendant's motion to suppress. People v. Vincent, 628 P.2d 107 (Colo. 1981).

Former subsection (2)(c) did not confer power to issue permits for carrying concealed weapons to police chiefs and sheriffs. Douglass v. Kelton, 199 Colo. 446, 610 P.2d 1067 (1980).

Person receiving permit to carry concealed weapon cannot be convicted. Once a person receives a permit to carry a concealed weapon in a county or city, he may not be convicted under subsection (2)(c). Douglass v. Kelton, 199 Colo. 446, 610 P.2d 1067 (1980).

Statute as basis for jurisdiction. See People v. Pickett, 194 Colo. 178, 571 P.2d 1078 (1977).

Defendant could not be convicted of carrying a concealed weapon without the prosecution proving that defendant intended to use this short-bladed knife as a weapon. While the characteristics of an instrument may be an important factor in determining the intended purpose of an instrument, the language of the concealed weapons statute and established precedent establishes that a knife's design does not, by itself, prove that the person carrying it intended to use it as a weapon. A.P.E. v. People, 20 P.3d 1179 (Colo. 2001).

Applied in People v. Velasquez, 641 P.2d 943 (Colo. 1982); People v. Deschamp, 662 P.2d 171 (Colo. 1983).




18-12-105.5

Unless the prosecution can also establish that the person used or intended to use the knife as a weapon, a person cannot be prosecuted under subsection (1) for carrying a knife with a blade less than three and one-half inches in length on school grounds. Even though subsection (1) references the deadly weapons statute, that statute does not specifically define "knife". The term "knife" is, however, specifically limited to a weapon with a blade longer than three and one-half inches in length by § 18-12-101 (1), as applicable to this article. Thus, reading and harmonizing these provisions together, the plain language of both provisions establishes that, for purposes of this section, where the deadly weapon is a knife, it must qualify as a knife under § 18-12-101 (1)(f). People ex rel. J.W.T., 93 P.3d 580 (Colo. App. 2004).




18-12-106


Trial court's instruction to jury that second degree assault involved force or violence as a matter of law was proper for conviction under this statute notwithstanding fact that second degree assault could involve injury to another resulting from the administration of drug or other substance. People v. Allaire, 843 P.2d 38 (Colo. App. 1992).

Jury must find "knowing" possession to convict. To convict a previous offender of possessing a weapon, the jury must find, not mere possession, but that the defendant "knowingly" possessed the weapon and that he understood that the object possessed was a weapon. People v. Tenorio, 197 Colo. 137, 590 P.2d 952 (1979).

To convict under this section, the prosecution must prove that one of the defendant's intended uses for the instrument was as a weapon. As so construed, the section is not overbroad. People v. Gross, 830 P.2d 933 (Colo. 1992).

This section is not void for vagueness in regard to the definitions of weapon cited therein. "Weapon" has a commonly understood meaning and the definition of "knife" cited in this section is sufficiently specific to give fair warning of the proscribed conduct. People v. Gross, 830 P.2d 933 (Colo. 1992).

Broad definition of "knife", incorporated into this section by reference to § 18-12-101, is constitutional. Where defendant possessed a screwdriver with specific intent to use it as a weapon, elements of crime were present. But this section does not prohibit possession of such an instrument for an innocent purpose, so prohibition is neither unconstitutionally vague nor overbroad. People v. Gross, 830 P.2d 933 (Colo. 1992).




 
Thanks for the reply
"The guard didn't even have a knife on him, no gun, no cuffs. Just a uniform, beer gut and shiny shoes." LOL
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top