combat knife throwing... r u kidding me?

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eccvets

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just watched a video about combat knife throwing and all i could think of was... r u kidding me?

knife fighting is bad as is since your chances aren't very good with getting out of it without getting hurt but why would you want to throw your knife in a fight? good lord... I mean lets say you did have multipul knifes on you, when you throw it and have it probally miss, now your opponent has a knife...

meh, I'm gonna throw my knifes just for target pratice and use my bullets in combat...


I was also watch some videos about knife fighting in general and all i could constantly think about was 1: nobody is ever gonna stand like that for you! and 2:nobody is not gonna fight back! also, its ususally 3-5 guys vs 1 and your probally gonna be the single guy out...

in nearly each knife fight, I could see at least one way the guy pretending to be taken down could easily turn his knife just a little and cut the hell out of the other guy leaving both guys bleading to death on the ground. the only way I see you possibly comming out on top is if the other guy has no knife and/or no other weapon.
 
I used to feel just as you do and still think throwing a knife in combat would be a seldom used skill at best. But I don’t believe that it is completely useless either. It is amazing how much damage and how deep the penetration that a well thrown knife has. If you have thrown a knife at a wood target, seen how deep it goes into that target and then tried to get that same result with a hand thrust you will see what I mean.

In it’s use as a preemptive first strike attack on an unknowing foe it can be devastating. A one pound one foot long throwing knife will open up a terrible wound channel with a good solid hit. I think a reasonable range is 6’ to 24’ with some practice at hitting center mass on a human sized target and doing such damage as to end the fight right there. And it doesn’t go BANG!

I have often heard the argument that if you miss then your opponent he then has your knife. I don’t believe that would be true in most cases, that’s just BS. First, if it is a clean miss your knife is going to land 10 to 15 feet the other side of your human target. In other words, a missed throw does not land at the targets feet or in his hand. Second, being hit with any part of a 1 pound projectile hurts like hell and is somewhat disorienting at the least, be it tip, blade or handle. At the least it will make your foe consider what might be coming next. And Third even by some strange cosmic circumstance he does end up with your knife in his hand does that means that he didn’t have anything in that hand to start with, he knows how to use your knife and you have no back up weapon? If that is the case the Cosmos want’s you dead any ways so why fight it?

There is little argument that the 3 inch longer the knife in a toe to toe fight has a much better chance of winning when all else is equal. With throwing we are talking about a 20 foot advantage for the first (and arguably) only strike. When you are able to stick someone with a throwing knife at 12 feet you obviously will have a huge advantage for the rest of the encounter.

Do I think Knife Throwing Could be a self defence silver bullet? Of course not. But it can be a useful tool when the correct situation presents itself IMHO.

And even if I am completely wrong, and Knife Throwing can never be used in SD I still have a great time beating the hell out of 4” thick wood targets.
 
just watched a video about combat knife throwing and all i could think of was... r u kidding me?

knife fighting is bad as is since your chances aren't very good with getting out of it without getting hurt but why would you want to throw your knife in a fight? good lord... I mean lets say you did have multipul knifes on you, when you throw it and have it probally miss, now your opponent has a knife...

meh, I'm gonna throw my knifes just for target pratice and use my bullets in combat...


I was also watch some videos about knife fighting in general and all i could constantly think about was 1: nobody is ever gonna stand like that for you! and 2:nobody is not gonna fight back! also, its ususally 3-5 guys vs 1 and your probally gonna be the single guy out...

in nearly each knife fight, I could see at least one way the guy pretending to be taken down could easily turn his knife just a little and cut the hell out of the other guy leaving both guys bleading to death on the ground. the only way I see you possibly comming out on top is if the other guy has no knife and/or no other weapon.

I am watching this thread carefully since I do not see anything in your profile as to how old you are, where you are from or even your real name. I don't know what is with the letters and numbers and misspelled words in your post, but you do not need to write in Twitter mode here. If combat knife throwing is not your thing, then so be it. Please don't troll for an argument. So, please keep the dialogue civil.

Bobby
 
There are three philosophies about knife throwing.

1. The belief that everything is as it appears in movies: there are people with skills who can take a Post-It note and decapitate someone silently from 300 feet away.

2. The belief that it's all hogwash: you're throwing your ONLY weapon at the enemy, and he's just gonna take it and stick you with it. The OP is in this group.

3. The realization that a thrown object, knife or otherwise, can do a large amount of damage to a determined attacker at close range that will enable an escape or even deter an attacker from progressing further. This takes a basic skill level and understanding, and a modicum of practice.

Interestingly, one of the things you'll see most often with the second group is the immediate reference to a firearm. These folks fail to appreciate the fallacy in their argumentation: 90% of shooters can't hit a moving target with a firearm, either, and reliance upon the firearm as the only weapon at close ranges can be a fatal mistake. Unless the shooter actively trains in this scenario--and plinking at the range provides little realism to a live-fire situation--he's making the same mistake he chastises the knife throwers about.

And I'd say about 60% of knife throwers know how to hit a moving target at close range reliably under stress. Just as archers can. Shooters don't enjoy the same numbers unless they hunt or have been through a Hogan's Alley type scenario with opponents firing back with Simunition.
 
I'm still kind of laughing on the subject of combat knife throwing. Mainly because there are references to that in a book I have that was printed in the 1930s.
 
I think Watchful has it down pretty well. It often seems to me that the people that poo-poo knife throwing as a combat skill are always thinking in terms of face-to-face combat. But even in movies, when you see knives thrown, they're pretty much ALWAYS thrown at an unsuspecting or otherwise occupied/stationary target. In the rare circumstances where someone throws a knife at someone who can see it coming, its not effective, even in movies. But you have to remember that you're probably not going to throw your knife in a combat situation unless two conditions apply: 1. you're good enough at knife throwing to be sure of hitting your target, and 2. that your target won't see it coming. Maximizing the likelihood that you'll actually accomplish something is pretty much common sense.

And do you HONESTLY think that if Jack Dagger wanted to take you down, and he got the drop on you, that he couldn't take you down?

Not to mention, if you're sneaking up on someone, its a lot easier to close to throwing distance than it is to close to stabbing distance, and frankly, a lot can go wrong if you're trying to stab someone as well. Think of it this way. Say I'm sneaking up on you, because you're a sentry, and I want to take you out with a knife, for whatever reason. I throw my knife at you and I miss. Okay, so now you have my knife. So what? You're still far enough away that you're hardly going to be able to use the knife on me short of throwing it back, and I could easily run away, assuming neither of us have other weapons than knives.

As for the using bullets thing--yes, in general, that's preferable. But what happens if you want to take out an opponent quietly. Or what happens if you happen to RUN OUT of ammo, or your gun jams. A knife is always a backup weapon. You're not going to find anyone who likes to throw a combat knife who would choose it over a firearm in a full-on combat situation. Nor are they going to throw it at an aware opponent.
 
I'm still kind of laughing on the subject of combat knife throwing. Mainly because there are references to that in a book I have that was printed in the 1930s.

Well What did it say??

And do you HONESTLY think that if Jack Dagger wanted to take you down, and he got the drop on you, that he couldn't take you down?
Jack Dagger!!?? OH PLEASE!!!

jk! I hope JD comes out to the CS Challenge in a few months. As a matter of fact anyone in the South West of the US might want to drop in to the Cold Steel Challenge if you are interested in knife throwing.
 
I have to dig it out, but mainly it was talking about the quick draw and over the shoulder throw, so more or less the whole quarter spin throw, short range stuff. (I'll pull it out tomarrow, I just gotta get ready for work now)
 
The only time I can ever see it being used is in a last ditch act of desperation. But you'd probably do just as well to throw a chunk of concrete or a fist full of sand at the guy. Little reality check here, I've been throwing knives for three years, every day, twenty minutes a day; I still don't hit the target every time, and I don't stick every time I hit it. It's hard to stick a knife properly and accurately from a known distance, at a log. Two steps in the wrong direction or your hand in the wrong place on the handle means that you get that unpleasant "Clang!" of the knife as it comes flying back at you causing you to run for cover like a little girl from a bee (remember back to your first week of throwing, you know what I'm talking about). As of right now I've only killed three things with my knives 1 moth, 1 beetle, and 1 potted plant. All were accidental.

Let's go with the sentry idea first, even though the situation seems a bit video gamey to me. So you need to take out this guy quietly. So what happens if you don't kill the guy with the throw. Puncture wounds and stab wounds hurt, I know from experience anyone whose ever stepped on a nail or slipped with a pair of scissors can tell you that. Say you don't hit him somewhere immediately vital, he may very well eventually die but chances are, he's not going to grunt and fall over like in the movies, he'll probably be running around cussing and screaming like a stuck pig, then what? "Shhhhh quiet!" Or even worse, you miss altogether or bounce, he might end up with a lump on the noggin but he's probably not going to die from it, so then what? "Oops, turn around and let me try that again." Unless time travel technology has been invented, maybe the government has it, I don't know for sure; but, you probably can't just load a save game and try again in real life. Now everyone knows you're there and you couldn't do your job. I doubt anyone in a position where they might find themselves in this type of situation would consider chucking a knife through someone's skull an option; if they would, well, that just terrifies me considerably.

Now lets look at something else, say you're in a fight and something goes horribly wrong with your gun. But aha! You know how to throw your knife. Let's forget for a moment that statistically, most people will never find themselves in a combat situation, and that of that small percent that do, only a small percent will ever be close enough to the enemy in a situation to consider knife throwing an option. But we'll say you're a part of that tiny little percent and it happens. So your first thought, upon your gun going "kaboom" is not to take cover and try to fix it, or to retreat, but to jump out in the open, bad guys still shooting at you, and wail your knife at your attacker. Now I've never been shot, but it looks quite painful and it would not be my first instinct to jump out in front of whizzing bullets in a, quite probably, futile attempt to kill one bad guy. But let's say you do, and you miss, "oh well," you're probably no worse off than you were a minute ago provided that you're immune to bullets but you didn't really do any good either. But let's say you hit him, and you're immune to bullets and he dies; so what, there's still bad guys shooting at you, you still have no gun, and now unless you're a Jedi or Rambo and your knife can boomerang back to you, you can't do it again so you either have to retreat or fix your gun, which is what you should have done in the first place. So what, exactly, was the point? I find it highly doubtful that anyone would find this option very appealing in real life and it seems like a good way to get dead. Plus, where were all your friends when your gun jammed and you did your Conan thing?

So now let's look at something completely different. Say you're totally screwed, the bad guy kicked your gun out of your hands and it slid WAY across the room, now he's coming at you with a bayonet. "Oh noes!" you think, so out of desperation, you throw your knife at the bad guy and you miss, and he bayonets you through the lungs, and you die, oh well, you had to do something and it didn't work, you were dead anyway so what the heck. But lets say it hits him and bounces of his head, either the above scenario happens anyway or you knock him off balance for a second and hopefully you have enough common sense and time to cheese it before he comes after you again. So let's say you get really, really lucky and he goes nighty night forever, then you're free to do whatever, go all John McClane on the rest of the bad guys or whatever it is that you want to do. The point is, this is the only scenario where I see it as very likely that anyone would try to throw a knife at a bad guy and even then, it's pretty unlikely that it would do any good, and even then it's likely that such a feat could have been accomplished just as well with a rock. Even forgetting that it's pretty unlikely that you'll ever find yourself in this situation.

Honestly, I think that this fascination with combat throwing knives comes from non-stop action packed Hollywood thrill rides of violence and mayhem where consequence is practically nonexistent. They're fun to watch but they're just that, fun. Always remember that movies are fake, they're for fun and not to be taken too seriously. Can throwing a knife be done in combat? I'm sure it has been done, and I'm sure it could be done again, provided that you find yourself in a situation that's about as likely to happen as getting eaten by a tiger shark in a back yard swimming pool but honestly, it's a very impractical and, frankly, stupid thing to try if you have any, and I mean any, other option.
 
Note that virtually every situation described here involves throwing a knife at an enemy who sees it coming. Naturally that's a bad idea, and from what I've been given to understand, there's only one situation in which a thrown knife was used in a military combat situation in the entirety of western history. That's the word from Mike Stewart, and I'm hardly one to dispute his expertise.

As for the sentry thing, I suspect most combat personnel who would engage in a sentry take-down will be skilled enough to actually close and use the knife in a definitive fashion, while controlling the sentry (as is also commonly seen in movies). Lacking such amazing movie-like ninja skills, I'd be more inclined to chuck a big heavy knife and then run away. I highly doubt I'd ever be in the situation that I'd have to be infiltrating some fort, and honestly, if I'm ever in that situation, I'm gonna die. The main point of that example is that the only time I think anyone is ever going to be throwing a knife in a combat situation will be in one where the target doesn't know you're there, and therefore the argument that you've just thrown away a knife that he can use against you is utterly specious. It would likely be the height of stupidity to attempt throwing a knife in any other circumstance. Does that mean that it can't be done successfully, and even stealthily? Well, probably not by someone who admits to not being able to hit the target everytime. Certainly not by myself. I would wager that someone who is likely going to throw a knife in that situation probably is pretty confident about being able to hit exactly where they are aiming, and sink it in deep, barring unforeseen moves by the target, or the intervention of Murphy. Either that, or they're desperate, in which case it strikes me that it doesn't really matter, and maybe they'll get lucky. I can't actually envision it actually happening, but if it did, I wouldn't necessarily discount its effectiveness.

I think part of the issue is also what kind of knife we're throwing also. A lot of the more common knives designed for throwing are pretty light and small. Those are utterly useless in a combat situation. A big heavy blade, on the other hand, has enough momentum to really sink in pretty deep. Sure, maybe they'll go running around screaming. But I'd still rather be on the throwing end of that knife rather than the end that's running around screaming like a stuck pig. Maybe it's not IDEAL. But for darn sure if you're good enough to actually want to throw a knife at someone in that situation, they're unlikely to be able to use it on you (which was the point of that example).

As for good ole Jack Dagger, I used him as an example because he's one of the few knife throwing experts outside maybe Gil Hibben who would be familiar to the average person, thanks to his appearances on various TV shows. I kinda think I wouldn't want to be within a knife throw of someone who can hit a thrown grape with a thrown knife, personally, if he had it in for me.

Short version--yea, throwing knives in combat is generally stupid. But if you want to make that point to a community of people who enjoy throwing knives, and will likely never BE in a combat situation, at least use common sense and recognize that arguments like "oh noes, you just threw away your ONLY weapon," or "use a gun, that's better," are non-responsive and irrelevant.
 
Been throwing knives since I was six years old.(My Dad was a thrower and thought it was something "every kid should know")I'm now 50+ so I've got a little experience upon which to base an opinion.
First,if I am in a situation that requires me to throw a knife at an enemy a whole lot of things have already gone wrong. Several key pieces of personal equipment have failed and I am pretty sure that I won't be able to outrun my opponent. Sentry removal? That's why God made suppressors. Sure, if you're really, really lucky and can sneak up close enough to ram a fairly big knife into his kidneys he PROBABLY won't scream but even that's not 100%. Even so there will probably be a significant amount of thrashing about which is a lot noisier than one would suspect when silence is the goal. No, the only time I can see this scenario developing in my life is that things have gone so horribly wrong that I find myself face to face with someone who knows I'm there and whose demise is my only hope for survival. And even at this point I will have to have either a second blade or have noticed something handy close by to scoop up and use as an impact weapon because once I throw that pig-sticker I don't want to be down to teeth and fingernails. Back when I was young I developed and practiced a throw that started from what I guess you could call an "en guard" position. You have to be close and you need to throw with a sort of side-arm-underhand cast. With luck and a good heavy blade you hit him in the belly and it either rips him up or hopefully at least knocks the wind out of him giving you time to move in with your second blade or grab up that club you noticed earlier and start whomping on him until he's rendered uninterested in anything you do next. But it has to be CLOSE. If you throw a knife at someone who sees you doing it and you are more than 10 to 15 feet away all he's got to do is wait till your arm starts forward and then step aside. I know that for a fact. Try it with a friend and a rubber trainer and you'll be amazed at how hard it is to hit someone who has the nerve to wait until your arm is coming forward before he moves.
Can knife throwing work in a fight?
Sure.
But I sure hope my life doesn't ever depend on it.
I never knew until today that there was a forum for knife throwers. This is pretty cool.
 
The military dropped "sentry takedown" with knives a quarter century ago. These days, if you need to take down a sentry, it's with a .50 bullet. No muss, no fuss.

Throwing knives to take out anybody from behind is, in nearly all circumstances, going to be viewed as murder. We're looking at purely defensive use of a thrown object--which may or may not be a knife. Given the OP was a hit-and-run, I think the whole thing was a troll move thrown over the fence to see if we would play.
 
Ok, I think we got our point across. Since the OP never showed back up, I think we'll let this one die.
 
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