Common sense knife control?

[DocJD]

That's the kind of black and white thinking that's gotten us into this mess, this is not a binary equation. The tired old whine "but what about the motor vehicles" is such an old saw that it has no "gotcha" left. We have driver's licenses, laws about who can drive what kind of vehicles, laws about vehicle safety, insurance requirements, speed limits.... and people still die because of stupid mistakes, gross incompetence or negligence, or just plain bad luck. It's not a perfect system because people are involved, but it's the system we have and it evolves to incorporate changes in technology and law. Show me a car you can carry in your pocket that you can use to injure 13 people in a bar and maybe the comparison would be apt.

A fast moving car , or much MUCH worse , a large oversized or hazardous material tractor trailer , can potentially cause huge devastation that can extend far beyond the immediate roadway .

A knife only has mass lethal potential in a group incapable of self-defense . Maybe because they have been disarmed and brainwashed against learning SD .

 

[DocJD]

By definition, a gun is a tool used for self defense. Though it has other uses like recreation.

Signaling devise , party noisemaker , hammer , crutch or splint , etc .

 

[benchwarmer380]

To be fair, it's a tool like a playground is a tool for children to play on.
A tool in my mind should be used in work to perform repairs or daily living.

Other wise a any thing is a tool, takes away from the point of saying a drill or knife is tool.
Especially considering the only real function of the particular tool is destroying the application ( trying to make it sound nice).

I would like to keep guns available but realistically they should be placed under recreational and hunting. I would say a description of a tool is not a strong case.

Knives can be used every day for eating, unpacking etc.. They could stand the description as a tool.

No. A playground is a toy.

A gun can be both a toy and a tool, but it is a tool first.

Just as a knife is a tool first, it can also be a toy. Or a weapon.

Daily usage or for repairs are your qualifiers, Merriam disagrees with that.
Is a sledgehammer a tool? A jackhammer?

A gun is an handheld device that aids in the accomplishment of a task, self defense.

tool​

noun (1)
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\ ˈtül \

Definition of tool​

(Entry 1 of 3)
1a: a handheld device that aids in accomplishing a task

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tool


Is a sledgehammer a tool? A jackhammer?

 

[DocJD]

use a gun for getting your car started I would like to know how.

You can use a gun to keep someone from stealing your car , or murdering you in road rage .

 

[benchwarmer380]

Also, I think that normalizing the concept of these devices as tools would help inhibit the stigma around them and let people see them for what they are, simply a device that does a specific thing. It will help highlight that when they are used with ill intent, it is not the item at fault but rather the user.

I think it would also open the door for more education and respect for the item, which would save lives.

 

[Skar]

No. A playground is a toy.

A gun can be both a toy and a tool, but it is a tool first.

Just as a knife is a tool first, it can also be a toy. Or a weapon.

Daily usage or for repairs are your qualifiers, Merriam disagrees with that.
Is a sledgehammer a tool? A jackhammer?

A gun is an handheld device that aids in the accomplishment of a task, self defense.

tool​

noun (1)
Save Word
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\ ˈtül \

Definition of tool​

(Entry 1 of 3)
1a: a handheld device that aids in accomplishing a task

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tool


Is a sledgehammer a tool? A jackhammer?

I suppose we're going to have to disagree.

Websters has a different definition.

A device, such as a saw, shovel, or drill, used to perform or facilitate manual or mechanical work.

 

[DocJD]

Although I adamantly oppose weapons restrictions for sane and law abiding citizens , I do support holding them to a much higher standard of responsible behavior if they choose to arm themselves .

Especially for ranged weapons , the standard of training , practice and overall competence to function under stress , to NOT cause collateral damage or use the weapon in any inappropriate behavior .

I don't favor licensing , but more strict standards and penalties at the federal level .

Punish bad behavior ! But don't punish responsible citizens .

 

[DocJD]

I suppose we're going to have to disagree.

Websters has a different definition.

A device, such as a saw, shovel, or drill, used to perform or facilitate manual or mechanical work.

I have my own special definition for "tool" .

Weapon can be almost anything , including words , ideas , information . It's all about the actual intent in use .

 

[The_Iron_Joe]

No. A playground is a toy.

A gun can be both a toy and a tool, but it is a tool first.

Just as a knife is a tool first, it can also be a toy. Or a weapon.

Daily usage or for repairs are your qualifiers, Merriam disagrees with that.
Is a sledgehammer a tool? A jackhammer?

A gun is an handheld device that aids in the accomplishment of a task, self defense.

tool​

noun (1)
Save Word
To save this word, you'll need to log in.
Log In

\ ˈtül \

Definition of tool​

(Entry 1 of 3)
1a: a handheld device that aids in accomplishing a task

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tool


Is a sledgehammer a tool? A jackhammer?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/firearm

" : a weapon from which a shot is discharged by gunpowder —usually used of small arms"


Look, without being too cheeky or semantic about it, guns are weapons, first and foremost. To argue otherwise is disingenuous, as whether you're shooting paper or steel plate (recreation), animals (hunting) or people (defense) you are utilizing a weapon to do so. The goal of any shooter is to hit, damage or destroy their target, whether that's the bulls-eye on a hanging paper or otherwise. To say that the gun you use in any of those situations is a tool, but NOT a weapon is silly.

Would you argue any differently for a spear or a sword? Both are weapons first. They are generally intended to injure and kill. I personally don't think there is anything inherently wrong with owning weapons, whether they be guns or otherwise.

TO BE CLEAR, I'm not arguing that guns should or shouldn't be banned / restricted / whatever. That's an entirely different topic for a different day. I'm mostly posting over the most commonly accepted definition and description of firearms / guns.

OP asks whether the reader is in favor of any laws restricting knives, and my answer is no.

 

[benchwarmer380]

I suppose we're going to have to disagree.

Websters has a different definition.

A device, such as a saw, shovel, or drill, used to perform or facilitate manual or mechanical work.

No it doesn't. It is worded and arranged differently, yet still the same definition.


1. An instrument such as a hammer, saw, plane, file, and the like, used in the manual arts, to facilitate mechanical operations; any instrument used by a craftsman or laborer at his work; an implement; as, the tools of a joiner, smith, shoe-maker, etc.; also, a cutter, chisel, or other part of an instrument or machine that dresses work.
2. A machine for cutting or shaping materials; - also called machine tool.
3. Hence, any instrument of use or service.
That angry fool . . .
Whipping her horse, did with his smarting tool
Oft whip her dainty self.
- Spenser.
4. A weapon.
Him that is aghast of every tool.
- Chaucer.

http://www.webster-dictionary.org/definition/tool




You are adverse to calling it a tool and in that, we do disagree. I believe your stance inadvertently aids those that are against knives and guns, as it helps reinforce their perception that they have no redeeming attributes and should not belong in a civil society.


If you don't mind, may I ask where you're located? Curious if you're in the States or abroad.

Thanks!

 

[benchwarmer380]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/firearm

" : a weapon from which a shot is discharged by gunpowder —usually used of small arms"


Look, without being too cheeky or semantic about it, guns are weapons, first and foremost. To argue otherwise is disingenuous, as whether you're shooting paper or steel plate (recreation), animals (hunting) or people (defense) you are utilizing a weapon to do so. The goal of any shooter is to hit, damage or destroy their target, whether that's the bulls-eye on a hanging paper or otherwise. To say that the gun you use in any of those situations is a tool, but NOT a weapon is silly.

Would you argue any differently for a spear or a sword? Both are weapons first. They are generally intended to injure and kill. I personally don't think there is anything inherently wrong with owning weapons, whether they be guns or otherwise.

TO BE CLEAR, I'm not arguing that guns should or shouldn't be banned / restricted / whatever. That's an entirely different topic for a different day. I'm mostly posting over the most commonly accepted definition and description of firearms / guns.

OP asks whether the reader is in favor of any laws restricting knives, and my answer is no.

I never claimed they were not weapons. Weapons are simply the tools one uses for offense and defense.

Spear and sword were the tools of war from a bygone era.


What is a compass if not a tool for navigation?

 

[Bob Denman]

By definition, a gun is a tool used for self defense. Though it has other uses like recreation.

Welllll........
A firearm is a mechanical device designed to fire a projectile downrange from a self-contained cartridge. This cartridge will contain the projectile, a priming compound, and an accelerent.
The definition clearly states nothing about purpose. You added that.

 

[The_Iron_Joe]

I never claimed they were not weapons. Weapons are simply the tools one uses for offense and defense.

Spear and sword were the tools of war from a bygone era.


What is a compass if not a tool for navigation?

Fair enough, but when people say they're concerned about weapons, they're not thinking about gardening shears, rakes, hammers, wood planes, screw drivers or saws. Sure, you could cause some horrible damage to someone with those tools, but they're not designed to be effective weapons, so there really isn't as strong an argument for their regulation.

It's true that a gun is a weapon, and weapons are tools, but not all tools are weapons by design. Disregarding that guns are primarily weapons in function does little to further the argument that guns are tools, as both should be plain to see.

Though, I know many anti-gun / anti-knife / anti-weapons people don't always make arguments in good faith... that's a big part of the problem, certainly.

The particular issue when it comes to knives, I think, is that there is a LOT of functional crossover between peaceful tool and weapon, given that knives are designed to cut, regardless of what exactly they're being used on. Humans happen to be made of soft squishy bits. That among other factors has led to various ownership and carry laws, while my 12 oz ball peen hammer is happily unregulated...

 

[benchwarmer380]

Welllll........
A firearm is a mechanical device designed to fire a projectile downrange from a self-contained cartridge. This cartridge will contain the projectile, a priming compound, and an accelerent.
The definition clearly states nothing about purpose. You added that.

I wasn't defining a firearm, I was pointing out that a firearm is a tool based on the definition of tool.

Self defense is merely one of the uses for such a tool.

 

[Chronovore]

I know that I'm in the tiniest minority here...
I do think that the laws are far too restrictive here in New York State.
But I'm am not in favor of removing ALL restrictions...
Law-abiding citizens should not have their rights taken away...
But keeping knives out of the hands of those who have proven to not follow the laws, or who have proven to be a danger to themselves and those around them: need to have much more serious guidelines imposed.

An important question for any potential law is not just whether it actually accomplishes the desired result or if it could even be effectively enforced but what the unintended consequences could be. An important aspect of that is whether a law could be abused. This has been a serious concern with "red flag" confiscation laws. Potential abuses include spite, revenge, instrumental use in divorce or custody cases, etc. Another regards a necessitated demand for future measures, such as when actually enforcing background checks becomes nearly impossible without registration and therefore fuels future calls for registration.

Having a legal tool by which a person could be banned from purchasing or carrying a knife, or having a knife in their home seems particularly dubious. At some point, we also have to ask whether a person who is rightfully in a position that they must be stopped from having a knife is safe to be allowed any freedoms at all.

 

[Skar]

No it doesn't. It is worded and arranged differently, yet still the same definition.


1. An instrument such as a hammer, saw, plane, file, and the like, used in the manual arts, to facilitate mechanical operations; any instrument used by a craftsman or laborer at his work; an implement; as, the tools of a joiner, smith, shoe-maker, etc.; also, a cutter, chisel, or other part of an instrument or machine that dresses work.
2. A machine for cutting or shaping materials; - also called machine tool.
3. Hence, any instrument of use or service.
That angry fool . . .
Whipping her horse, did with his smarting tool
Oft whip her dainty self.
- Spenser.
4. A weapon.
Him that is aghast of every tool.
- Chaucer.

http://www.webster-dictionary.org/definition/tool




You are adverse to calling it a tool and in that, we do disagree. I believe your stance inadvertently aids those that are against knives and guns, as it helps reinforce their perception that they have no redeeming attributes and should not belong in a civil society.


If you don't mind, may I ask where you're located? Curious if you're in the States or abroad.

Thanks!

My bad.. no it was not Websters.

tool

Definition, Synonyms, Translations of tool by The Free Dictionary

www.thefreedictionary.com

Still I do not see it the same way you do.
I have a hard time thinking or relating a gun as a "tool".

Yes almost anything can be used as a weapon yet a gun or firearm has one of three uses. Which I really don't want to repeat

I'm in the states, I am all for gun rights Not more restrictions. Just to set this perception straight .

 

[Bob Denman]

I wasn't defining a firearm, I was pointing out that a firearm is a tool based on the definition of tool.

Self defense is merely one of the uses for such a tool.

Fair enough...
Your post seemed to be defining them based upon how they are used...
(Firearms Safety Instructor for over 30 years...)

 

[skyhorse]

Lmao , common sense gun control hasn't worked out so well in the enlightened enclaves of America.

 

[Bob Denman]

Lmao , common sense gun control hasn't worked out so well in the enlightened enclaves of America.

How do you define, "common sense"?
I think (IMHO) it's more of a breakdown in the application of the laws.
Plea-Bargain deals, prosecutors who don't charge, and judges who fail to impose adequate sentences; are where things fall apart.

 

[eveled]

Fair enough, but when people say they're concerned about weapons, they're not thinking about gardening shears, rakes, hammers, wood planes, screw drivers or saws.

This is the route of the problem. They shouldn’t be concerned about weapons. They should be concerned about evil people.

Vilification of the tool used by the evil person is wrong.

Look at it this way. If there is a shooting they talk about the evil gun. They blame the gun

When a cop shoots a really bad guy saving lots of lives he is a hero. They don’t talk about the wonderful gun he used. They don’t praise the gun.

Calling any tool a weapon is just giving the antis a foot hold.

It’s a trick they use to sway the public. Like calling a semiautomatic rifle an assault weapon. They are manipulating the English language to make inanimate objects evil and using it as a weapon to disarm us.

I forget who compared a drivers license and laws to firearms licensing and laws.

In the USA we are born with the RIGHT to bear arms and to defend ourselves. You earn the PRIVILEGE to drive. Comparing the 2 is not valid.