Companies that get it right: steel, geometry, and heat treat

Shorttime

Shorttime

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Jumping off from LG&M's "pick two" thread, I felt it could be interesting, and possibly informative, to start a thread for listing companies that do things properly.

For geometry, let's stick with primary and secondary bevels, without worrying about stock thickness.

Let's avoid customs, and companies like Chris Reeve or Strider, who kind of straddle the production/mid-tech line. I know, there's a lot of debate about that, which is why I want to stay with "big names", mass-production knives.

Steel: Benchmade and Spyderco. Lots of steel choices, from both companies

Geometry: Spyderco for slicing and general EDC.

Heat Treat: Benchmade and Spyderco get it right here, again. But IMO, Kershaw gets the nod for best heat treat, because they use a lot of 8cr55Movxtc whatever it is steel, and they know how to make it keep an edge.
 
Heat treat: Becker and Emerson, I know these aren't super steels, but they both make theirs (1095 and 154CM respectively) pretty super IMO.

Geometry: I think Becker does a great job if this, as well as spyderco, but geometry largely friends on its use.
 
The old USA-made Schrades and Ulsters from the Walden and Ellenville plants in NY immediately come to mind when you mention blade geometry, steel, and, steel treatment. Those old knives do precisely what a pocket knife should do and do it quite well. Thankfully there are still gazillions of them around which can be had in very good and excellent condition for very little money.

Schrade, Camillus, and many others got it right a LONG time ago.
 
MIGUY said:
Heat treat: Becker and Emerson, I know these aren't super steels, but they both make theirs (1095 and 154CM respectively) pretty super IMO.

Geometry: I think Becker does a great job if this, as well as spyderco, but geometry largely friends on its use.
Click to expand...

Becker geometry is geared towards hard-use tasks, not fine slicing and cutting tasks (what a knife is typically used for). If you want something that will perform similarly to an ax, yes, a Becker has that geometry, but if you want something that cuts and slices, the Becker does not have it.

Edit: Batch heat treats, great as long as you didn't get the first one in or the last one out!
 
somber said:
Becker geometry is geared towards hard-use tasks, not fine slicing and cutting tasks (what a knife is typically used for). If you want something that will perform similarly to an ax, yes, a Becker has that geometry, but if you want something that cuts and slices, the Becker does not have it.

Edit: Batch heat treats, great as long as you didn't get the first one in or the last one out!
Click to expand...
I'd have to strongly disagree, Beckers are more than capable of "slicing" with the benefit of being able to withstand hard use. Obviously not all models were designed for slicing, but can still easily accomplish it. Many people use the bk5, 15, and 16 as there kitchen knife.

Tops is another one that has excellent heat treat, and good blade geometry. For a less expensive option I've found the latest offerings from schrade to have a great heat treat and decent blade geometry.
 
Buck does 420HC right (the Bos heat treated ones, I don't have any of their imported 420HC) they do a great job of matching the whole blades geometry to that steel very well. They perform well above their materials class and much more expensive premium material blades.
 
Steel --- Spyderco. Offers more choices in steel than anyone.

Geometry --- Syderco. Especially love their full flat ground blades with a lot of distal taper.

Heat Treat --- Benchmade or Spyderco.
 
Ken44 said:
Steel --- Spyderco. Offers more choices in steel than anyone. YES

Geometry --- Syderco. Especially love their full flat ground blades with a lot of distal taper. YES

Heat Treat --- Benchmade or Spyderco.
Click to expand...
MOSTLY...not always happy with BM's 154 HT...
 
I think Emerson has a great formula for this very topic. They are tough, take a very sharp edge, and it is very easy to get them sharp.
 
This is really hard to answer.
Geometry is slightly subjective, because it depends on what you are using the knife for.

Steel is absolutely subjective, we can pick one steel and have an argument about it's pro's and con's based on our experiences. Getting blade steel "right" is like trying to figure out who makes the "right" car?!?!

HT: Strider and Hinderer.
 
Officer's Match said:
I think Emerson has a great formula for this very topic. They are tough, take a very sharp edge, and it is very easy to get them sharp.
Click to expand...

Agreed, though for many uses the geometry isn't slicey enough, but for my work it certainly is, so I agree with you OM.

Granted, I have an opinel in my lunch box for cutting fruit.
 
JR88FAN said:
This is really hard to answer.
Geometry is slightly subjective, because it depends on what you are using the knife for.

Steel is absolutely subjective, we can pick one steel and have an argument about it's pro's and con's based on our experiences. Getting blade steel "right" is like trying to figure out who makes the "right" car?!?!

HT: Strider and Hinderer.
Click to expand...

Agree on Hinderer's HT. They make S35V sexy.
 
leghog said:
The old USA-made Schrades and Ulsters from the Walden and Ellenville plants in NY immediately come to mind when you mention blade geometry, steel, and, steel treatment. Those old knives do precisely what a pocket knife should do and do it quite well. Thankfully there are still gazillions of them around which can be had in very good and excellent condition for very little money.

Schrade, Camillus, and many others got it right a LONG time ago.
Click to expand...


Boy howdy, this is very true.

Here is my old H-15 (I dropped the point) and man o man, Schrade did great things with 1095.
Schrade H-15 Modified by Pinnah, on Flickr

The grind is excellent too. A wonderful and versatile convexed sabre grind on relatively thin stock (compared to the norm today).

I find Opinel's treatment and grind of their Inox blades to be very similar to the H-15's carbon and that's why its such a favorite of mine.
 
Duane Sanders said:
Buck does 420HC right (the Bos heat treated ones, I don't have any of their imported 420HC) they do a great job of matching the whole blades geometry to that steel very well. They perform well above their materials class and much more expensive premium material blades.
Click to expand...

Buck's 420HC is one of my most favorite steels - on par with Opinel's 12C27. So much better than Case's 420HC.

I think their use of a hollow grind makes sense for the vast majority of knives which are designed with hunting in mind. But I find the hollow grind to be less versatile than a full flat or convexed blade - both in the woods and for EDC.

I have more Bucks than any other brand and would own a lot more if they would move to a full flat or convex grind. At the very least, I wish Buck offered grind options in the custom shop.
 
pinnah said:
Buck's 420HC is one of my most favorite steels - on par with Opinel's 12C27. So much better than Case's 420HC.

I think their use of a hollow grind makes sense for the vast majority of knives which are designed with hunting in mind. But I find the hollow grind to be less versatile than a full flat or convexed blade - both in the woods and for EDC.

I have more Bucks than any other brand and would own a lot more if they would move to a full flat or convex grind. At the very least, I wish Buck offered grind options in the custom shop.
Click to expand...

The high hollow grind on my vantage slices apples and other hard foods extremely well. Right on par with the thin full flat grind spydercos. It works extremely well on large and small game too. It does not look fancy or have a "super steel" but it keeps its edge longer than most premium material blades. My sons RAT 1 won't hold an edge half as long and it's a slice machine too.

The Reaper I have is hollow ground and I am tough on that blade but it's made for hard use. Last weekend I cleared some shooting lanes and it slices right through some thicker brush/branches easy. It holds its edge a long time too. So the hollow grind isn't weak at all when doing hard work if the designer uses the right steel with a heat treat made for that steel.

It makes me think if buck can do 420HC so extremely well, then other manufacturers are just slacking on purpose for profit margins and cranking out marginal blades that will satisfy the user who rarely uses their blade made in a premium steel. That does not work out so well for me. Why pay for less when buck gives you more?

I might try one of their blades in 5160 one of these days. Might be a good gift idea for the upcoming season. If it don't work out so good, I'll just keep using the reaper.
 
In terms of combination of steel, geometry and heat treat, I think most great knife company that offers good mass-production products has achieved a good balance between those and pricing.

Victorinox: considering how much they make a year, the consistency and good value. It's not easy to produce in millions while providing life-time warranty, it does say something about their wise selection of steel/geometry/HT.
Spyderco: Love their options and solid value, really good quality too.
Mora: Just often amazes me how well they work consider how inexpensive they are, love their scandi grind and how easy to maintain it.
 
I think Buck gets it right with whatever steel they use on any particular knife, regardless of if USA made or not. My 389 Canoe, for example, holds an edge just as long as, and cuts just as well as my 301. So does my 371, for that matter.
Hate me if you want, but another company that seems to have gotten it right is Rough Rider (and Colt and Marbles) at least with their traditional folders. They may use "lowly 440A" for the blades, (excluding the Colt carbon steel bladed knives, of course) but even carving dried oak did not dull my Rough Rider large sunfish.
From what I remember of the OKC 499 pilot survival knife I had when I was a rug rat, several decades ago, Ontario does a good job with their 1095.
 
"Geometry, steel, and heat treat done right"

Buck.

Best 420HC in the business
Best S30V in the business.
The heat treat schedules developed for them by Paul Bos are tops.

For abrasive cutting, their geometry is also tops. Buck makes hunting knives, and EDC knives. If you want to baton, buy something else.

Their combination of heat treat and geometry on S30V will outcut knives in that alloy from Spyderco or Benchmade.
 
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