Comparison between originally philippine made and imported ones

C

cua

Joined
Dec 28, 2000
Messages
22
Blade forum :

May I hear some technical observations in regards to the workmanship of balisong being made here in the Philppines(where I am at) as compared to the quality being done abroad? (U.S.A. . etc.)
There is always that presumption that steel technology( most especailly the blade) being used are much more better qualitwise ? how true is this? What else seems to be good or bad in comparison? Have you ever received an original balisong from the Philippines by the way in order to qualify for such comment vis a vis its price bought?But of course there are a range of qualities being done here and perhaps you might just happen to come across bad/cheap ones.
 
I own may balisongs from the Philippines. The quality varies considerably.

There are two critical cultural differences between American and European balisongs and those that come from the Philippines: First, many modern Filipino balisongs are made as tourist trinkets. American and European balisongs tend to be made as serious knives.

Second, and this goes way back, is that Filipinos tend to view knives as disposable. This isn't surprising since the climate in the Philippines is very hard on any knives. Also, in the past, Filipinos have used their balisongs very heavily, cutting their way through jungles, etc. So, they don't tend to make them with the idea that they should last for many years. Why make a handle that might endure for generations when if you don't drop the thing somewhere in the jungle, then the heat and humidity will reduce the blade to iron oxide powder in less than a year anyway?

So, why do so many Filipino Handmade balisongs have elaborately done inserts? Well, the Filipino people have a strong artistic sense. They like to decorate things, and they do it well.

Most Filipino balisong handles are made from bent sheetmetal, often brass. The metal is usually rather thin and soft. This weak foundation makes for a weak balisong.

American and European balisong handles either begin with a casting (a very expensive and complex process), or begin as a solid bar which is machined to shape (an even more complex process).

There's also a small difference in price. On the streets of Batangas, a typical Filipino Handmade balisong goes for well under $10 US. Here in America, a good production balisong starts at $100 and customs begin at about $250. Because they charge more for them, the American makers can put more into them. But, because they charge more for them, their customers expect more from them.


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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
 

#I own may balisongs from the Philippines. The quality varies considerably.
There are two critical cultural differences between American and European balisongs and those that come from the Philippines: First, many modern Filipino balisongs are made as tourist trinkets.
= yes, they are.

#American and European balisongs tend to be made as serious knives.
= okay thas sounds very reasonable

#Second, and this goes way back, is that Filipinos tend to view knives as disposable. This isn't surprising since the climate in the Philippines is very hard on any knives.
= yes, indeed, high humidity. Isecnd the motion.

#Also, in the past, Filipinos have used their balisongs very heavily, cutting their way through jungles, etc. So, they don't tend to make them with the idea that they should last for many years. Why make a handle that might endure for generations when if you don't drop the thing somewhere in the jungle, then the heat and humidity will reduce the blade to iron oxide powder in less than a year anyway?
= okay, good obsrvation.

#So, why do so many Filipino Handmade balisongs have elaborately done inserts? Well, the Filipino people have a strong artistic sense. They like to decorate things, and they do it well.
= yes, artistic sense have been put to manymany things. Now most specially if tourist is on its mine.
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#Most Filipino balisong handles are made from bent sheetmetal, often brass. The metal is usually rather thin and soft. This weak foundation makes for a weak balisong.
= thats what I wuold like to hear from a pro. The techncial side.
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#American and European balisong handles either begin with a casting (a very expensive and complex process), or begin as a solid bar which is machined to shape (an even more complex process).
= okay , econimics usaully comes first in a small type of industry.sometimes people here even just do it at the back of their huts.
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#There's also a small difference in price. On the streets of Batangas, a typical Filipino Handmade balisong goes for well under $10 US. Here in America, a good production balisong starts at $100 and customs begin at about $250. Because they charge more for them, the American makers can put more into them. But, because they charge more for them, their customers expect more from them.
= “small “ differnce? There must be some typographical errors eprhps.........
very good observations in general !!! I grade it as excellent. !thanks.
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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
 
Mr.cua, a very educational thread for me!
I just came back from a business trip to Philippine. There I had a luck to have five balisongs in barrio balisong. Three kris "standard" bente nueve, and two big ones (33inches or 82cm OAL). They showed good skill of the craftsmen in precise grinding and handle composition, but obviously they are for tourist souvenirs. As Gollnick said, they had less durability and more decorations. Of course much lower price. It was a very good deal for buck to me. Small one for 350PHP, large one for 1500PHP. ( 1 $ = 50 PHP) I only hope someone in Philippine find out there is a huge market of balisongs for enthusiasts, who willingly pays more than $100 for a quality balisong... a paradigm change from quantity to quality in terms of out of box smoothness, sharpness, and durability. Purchasing (not making) modern steel material will be the biggest problem.

If you haven't see a Benchmade balisong, I'll try to bring one of mine when I come to Philippine next time, maybe in a month or two. You can see the differences for yourself. If you are not sure which difference is preferred and which is not, Himalayan Import forum archive will help you a lot, especially how Mr. Bill Martino succeeded in persuading Nepali kami(smith)s to concentrate on quality instead of quantity based on US standard.

Hope this helps. Last but not least I'm glad to see you on the forum, too!

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(T_T) ...crying
\(^o^)/ ...cheerful
(ToT) ...crying
Mizutani Satoshi
 
Belated welcome Mr. CUA,

I've been reading your posts for a few days now, but have not had time to respond. I'm sorry for that, but this time of year always tears me in several directions all at once.

Here is a little view of what my Balisongs endure every day:

~ Workouts: My morning Balisong workouts last between 1-2 hours........ at which time they, and all their components are pushed to their limits. I find a Balisong with fewer pieces lasts MUCH longer than one made of several pieces. Handles on the Philippine hand mades, though beautiful, fall apart very quickly for me. Too many pieces! Also the "KICK" area on American (and European) Balisong blades is something you might want to pass on to your fellow countrymen. It's only a small deviation from the standard form, but will go a long way in making the hand mades more reliable.

~ Work: I manage a warehouse for a living. My Balisongs cut cartons every day, strip wire, pry things open, hammer things down, they're caught in machinery (better them than my fingers). My Balisongs get twisted, beaten, dropped, run over, you name it. They are tools first in my world. They are there to make my job easier. The brass handles of the Philippine hand mades could never take such abuse, I know, I've tried them. But, In their defense, I don't think they were ever supposed to endure this kind of use.

It seems to me that Philippine Balisongs are seen as mostly a self defense weapon. In that light, certain things can be sacrificed without too much thought or worry.

.......... oops, gotta go to work.

------------------
Clay
www.balisongxtreme.com
Because......
getting 'em open
is half the fun!
 

Mr.cua, a very educational thread for me!I just came back from a business trip to Philippine. There I had a luck to have fivebalisongs in barrio balisong. Three kris "standard" bente nueve, and two big ones(33inches or 82cm OAL). They showed good skill of the craftsmen in precise grinding andhandle composition, but obviously they are for tourist souvenirs. As Gollnick said, theyhad less durability and more decorations. Of course much lower price. It was a very gooddeal for buck to me. Small one for 350PHP, large one for 1500PHP. ( 1 $ = 50 PHP)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

# I only hope someone in Philippine find out there is a huge market of balisongs for enthusiasts,
= I dont believe no filipino in U.s. knows that there a demand of some sort. but perhaps there are some hidden problem behind that (despite being the a country assocsited w/ that. ), so that its not as "smooth sailing" always. But Thats what Iwould like to hear from you guys!!!!havnt anybody yet found out the pesky problem behind yet? There must be a problem asociated w/ it or else all those batangas knife should have flooded there.

# who willingly pays more than $100 for a quality balisong... a paradigm change from quantity to quality in terms of out of box smoothness, sharpness, and durability.
Purchasing (not making) modern steel material will be the biggest problem.
=okay, on the other hand, if only somebody here will cater to the the foreighn buyers like/expectation , itmay be succesfful? Is that your observation?
= yes, purchasing that kind fo "special" steel is no easy matter here.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

# If you haven't see a Benchmade balisong, I'll try to bring one of mine when I come toPhilippine next time, maybe in a month or two. You can see the differences for yourself.
= thanks. . Just be sure there is no restiriction during international travel like that between there and here.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


# If you are not sure which difference is preferred and which is not, Himalayan Import
forum archive will help you a lot, especially how Mr. Bill Martino succeeded in persuadingNepali kami(smith)s to concentrate on quality instead of quantity based on US standard.
= Oh? There are historical events like that. It may prove the same case here in short. Though the mentality here is always cheap comes first ,thats the problem.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

# Hope this helps. Last but not least I'm glad to see you on the forum, too!
= sure it helps.! Iwant to have all the observation from outside.

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#Belated welcome Mr. CUA,
= thanks ,
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

# I've been reading your posts for a few days now, but have not had time to respond. I'msorry for that, but this time of year always tears me in several directions all at once.
= no problem
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Here is a little view of what my Balisongs endure every day:

~ Workouts: My morning Balisong workouts last between 1-2 hours........ at which time
they, and all their components are pushed to their limits. I find a Balisong with fewer
pieces lasts MUCH longer than one made of several pieces. Handles on the Philippine
hand mades, though beautiful, fall apart very quickly for me. Too many pieces! Also the "KICK" area on American (and European) Balisong blades is something you might want topass on to your fellow countrymen. It's only a small deviation from the standard form,but will go a long way in making the hand mades more reliable.

= sorry for my ignorance, what is that kick area? Is it that small pinlike thing?

~ Work: I manage a warehouse for a living. My Balisongs cut cartons every day, strip
wire, pry things open, hammer things down, they're caught in machinery (better them
than my fingers). My Balisongs get twisted, beaten, dropped, run over, you name it.
They are tools first in my world. They are there to make my job easier. The brass
handles of the Philippine hand mades could never take such abuse,

= im very sure Of that. Since I remamber when I was younger playing w/ a balisong, after a few weeks of flips playing around and throwing it to a tree it tends to become "moveable" as if some steel there are tryign to give way ,sort of. IM COMPELETY SURPISE at this type of explanation regarding your kind of use or abuse. I havnt heard of any balisong here that is as strong as that here.

# I know, I've tried them. But, In their defense, I don't think they were ever supposed to endure this kind of
use. It seems to me that Philippine Balisongs are seen as mostly a self defense weapon. In that light, certain things can be sacrificed without too much thought or worry.

= yes, ,self defense and offense too like what the underworld usually uses to rob people with. Its just very unfortunately that it usually assosociate w/the "bad guys/underworld " here . I beg for yur forgiveness for this comment but you people might just like to know some REAL bitter facts regardign this coutnry when it comes to that sort of specific knife . . no offense to you goodguys and art guys It just the culture and foreighn law , thats all. Pls.forgive. if yu are caught here w/ balisong here openly in the street you can be jailed here and consider carrying deadly weapon.. And once I was taught from childhood, I inch means 1 year in the slammer.It just NOT instantly viewed assocasited as an" art " thing or utitlity knife here that's all. But perhaps for other culture it might be. Sorry , I eventually wish to bring up this subject to brainstorm about if I may on succeding topics posting just to shedlight on this area.


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Here is a picture (bad one, sorry) showing a Balisong with a KICK and one without.

kick.jpg


The KICK is just a slightly raised area on the blade that prevents the sharpened part of the blade from slamming into the liner of the handle.

Pretty simple concept really, but works wonders at protecting your sharpened edge.

------------------
Clay
www.balisongxtreme.com
Because......
getting 'em open
is half the fun!
 
Nice pic comparison, Clay!

I have to admit, that's what caught my attention years ago when I was buying those balisongs. The lack of a "kick". Apparently, the makers thought that since the handles are made of brass, that the edge on the blade is in no real danger of getting "blunted".

I have a couple of balisongs here which shows exactly the opposite though. Granted, a good Philippine-made balisong has a blade steel coming from either a 5160 or even a bearing "race" (bearing housing on trucks) but given time, they will still dull when they constantly hit the inner handles upon closing.

And Chuck's observation (along with the rest) is also true. As much as possible, try to avoid buying from those near the tourist spot areas, as these are made as "souveniers" only. (chances are, they are not even made in Batangas, but in Manila).

Well, according to dad, the balisong's purpose was originally intended as self-defense or offense weapon only. I mean, hey, if they draw it out on you, they'll use it on you.
smile.gif
That was the past though, and they have no knife-knuts back then.. hehe..

Have a Happy New Year, guys!

Dan
 
cua, welcome to the forums. I just went back from vacation. I tried to call you once but no one was answering.

Well if you want to see a quality balisong, you can check out my BM42. I got mine on-line. We could meet some time.
smile.gif
 
Hi there,

Just want to add on the 'kicks'. An alternative would be 'open' handle, i.e. the handle material is two pieces as opposed to single piece. The blade is hold closed with a second tang pin. The handle is kept apart by inside bolster (anyone has a better term?) stuffed at the end of it (the punyo)

I did a comb bali this way, using cheapest and simplest material (nails, bamboo stick and drill).

Also, I regretted not buying a double blade bali (the one that blades jutting out from both sides of the tang). This bali will require a sheath and there is no way closing it. The design calls also for an 'open' handle.
 
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