completely hand made stock removal

W

wildthing423

Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
13
I assure you I am familiar with the search functions on most boards similar to this and I did use it. I plugged into google a series of search phrases similar to this"stock removal knife making by hand without power tools." I worded it differently each time and using the enhanced retrieval of Google which shows partial wording of the posts I keep coming up with a post that points to many different knife forums including this one and in the google search the partial wording revealed is something to the effect of "...actually i have made many knives this way and you do not need any power tools..." something like that . So, I like this forum and I came here to read or find this particular post but it seems to be non existent, I have been unable to substantiate that anyone has made a stock removal knife using only a good hack saw, files, and sand paper and stones. non anywhere on the internet. and I did not search just for a day or an hour but months using different search terms. The closest I have come was the Japanese but even that was a five step process from forge to finish, not stock removal. Do any of you know if anyone here or on another forum has actually done this and done it well? I live in an apartment and have a vary limited space and would like to try it this way. I have made many expedient gun parts in this fashion. Looking forward to hearing from all of you.



Mark
 
Last edited:
There are some makers who use all hand tools but I think a lot of them forge to shape and then file. There is no reason you can't do stock removal by hand and I am sure there are some who do it this way too, the princlipless are the same as using a grinder, just much more labor intensive.
The stickies at the top contain a lot of info that applies to all methods.
 
It can be done, just takes time.
it's been many years now but that is how this knife was done
Mike

DSC00397.jpg
 
Justin King said:
There are some makers who use all hand tools but I think a lot of them forge to shape and then file. There is no reason you can't do stock removal by hand and I am sure there are some who do it this way too, the princlipless are the same as using a grinder, just much more labor intensive.
The stickies at the top contain a lot of info that applies to all methods.
Click to expand...



Justin,

could I be suffering from some early dementia, As I am having a problem finding these help and how to's that are alluded to in most of the rules posts.

Mark
 
Just get some tools together and do it! :) You don't need to see that someone else has done it to give it a try yourself. Jump on in. As was stated above, most folks use band saws to cut out their blanks simply because it is much faster and easier than using a hack saw or something similar. Forging to shape too, as stated above, is another way that... can be faster and cleaner.

Get yourself some thin steel (start easy). It will need to be annealed (soft). Draw your design on it and get to sawing! See how it goes for you. Get some decent files to clean up your edges and draw file the edge bevel. Clean it all up with wet/dry sandpaper.

The only snag I can see is drilling holes for pining the handle scales. You could try a hand crank drill... but that doesn't seem fun or fast.

Some folks use hand grinder/angle grinders to grind out the shape. They obviously do use electricity, but don't take up any room and will get your design ground out fairly quickly and more easily than a hack saw. Just a lot more room or error with a power tool than doing it by hand. Then you could easily do the rest with files and sandpaper.

I made a knife a few weeks ago using draw filing to cut the edge bevel. I did cut it out on a band saw and cleaned it up on a belt/disc grinder, but all of the edge work was done by hand. It was only my second knife, and it was done very quickly as I just wanted to go through the motions since it had been almost a year since my first knife. It is rough an ugly, as I wasn't trying to make a clean knife, just do through the process of making one.

FYI: the Bladeforums search feature is only available to paying members.

Almost forgot. Get this book. It will give you all you need to know for getting started and doing it the way you want.
http://www.amazon.com/Wayne-Goddard...2956/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1288628189&sr=8-1

Give it a shot and good luck! :thumbup:
 
Last edited:
C Bryant said:
Just get some tools together and do it! :) You don't need to see that someone else has done it to give it a try yourself. Jump on in. As was stated above, most folks use band saws to cut out their blanks simply because it is much faster and easier than using a hack saw or something similar. Forging to shape too, as stated above, is another way that... can be faster and cleaner.

Get yourself some thin steel (start easy). It will need to be annealed (soft). Draw your design on it and get to sawing! See how it goes for you. Get some decent files to clean up your edges and draw file the edge bevel. Clean it all up with wet/dry sandpaper.

The only snag I can see is drilling holes for pining the handle scales. You could try a hand crank drill... but that doesn't seem fun or fast.

Some folks use hand grinder/angle grinders to grind out the shape. They obviously do use electricity, but don't take up any room and will get your design ground out fairly quickly and more easily than a hack saw. Just a lot more room or error with a power tool than doing it by hand. Then you could easily do the rest with files and sandpaper.

I made a knife a few weeks ago using draw filing to cut the edge bevel. I did cut it out on a band saw and cleaned it up on a belt/disc grinder, but all of the edge work was done by hand. It was only my second knife, and it was done very quickly as I just wanted to go through the motions since it had been almost a year since my first knife. It is rough an ugly, as I wasn't trying to make a clean knife, just do through the process of making one.

FYI: the Bladeforums search feature is only available to paying members.

Almost forgot. Get this book. It will give you all you need to know for getting started and doing it the way you want.
http://www.amazon.com/Wayne-Goddard...2956/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1288628189&sr=8-1

Give it a shot and good luck! :thumbup:
Click to expand...

No, I dont particularly need to see but , as many of you reply to others in the making threads, a picture is worth a thousand words. I just wanted to get an idea of what the process would be all about. I wanted to see what someone elses process was like. I have never done this before. But i have had to make gun parts this way but i was schooled in that though.

mark
 
I made my first couple knives completely with hand tools, then I got a 30X1 belt grinder that I used for profiling and roughing in the bevels. Next I got a Portable Band saw for cutting out blanks, and right now I am in the midst of a Grinder in a Box build. I don't think you can ever get away from doing some hand tool work on a knife, there is always something that power tools wont do
 
I made my first knife with an hack saw, files and sandpaper.
And a drillpress. That is the one powertool that is hard to do without.
i made it in an appartement as well.
You don't even need a vice, a solid surface and two good clamps will do. (like a kitchen top)

Here is a website from a well known Dutch knifemaker who uses hand tools only.
He files every blade he makes. The sword in his galery as well!
http://www.g-eknivesandmore.com/

61.jpg
 
Last edited:
Mark, see if any of this helps.

This is one of the first tutorials I used to help get me going. http://www.knife-making-supplies.net/cheap-knife-tutorial.html

http://primitivepoint.blogspot.com/2007/04/art-of-filing.html

I know you are not looking to forge, aside from the bit of forging this dvd is a great resource for doing everything w/o electricity and only hand tools. Knifemaking Unplugged

Great Handle Tutorial: http://www4.gvsu.edu/triert/cache/articles/nw1/scales1.htm

Are you looking for all processes in general? Or specific processes?
 
Last edited:
C Bryant said:
Mark, see if any of this helps.

This is one of the first tutorials I used to help get me going. http://www.knife-making-supplies.net/cheap-knife-tutorial.html

http://primitivepoint.blogspot.com/2007/04/art-of-filing.html

I know you are not looking to forge, aside from the bit of forging this dvd is a great resource for doing everything w/o electricity and only hand tools. Knifemaking Unplugged

Great Handle Tutorial: http://www4.gvsu.edu/triert/cache/articles/nw1/scales1.htm

Are you looking for all processes in general? Or specific processes?
Click to expand...

WEll I would like to start with a piece of steel and work forward by hand, but I have no real working knowledge on the topic other then what I read here. I was kinda looking to see if anyone here had done it and documented the process in the threads. my dining room set and coffee and end tables I designed and built all by hand with out any power tools whatsoever. But I had a book of furniture making where the writers did it all by hand without power as well, It was one I found on google books and it was detailed. I have annealed and tempered steel for gun parts and springs etc using a small torch but one needs to be very careful and the steel is quite different as you may know.



Mark
 
Hi , I'm pretty new to knife making and I do it with files only, make sure you youtube draw filing steel, its an important technique for making flat bevel, I wish someone told me this:D a month ago.
 
First things first... as for steel. I'd start off with something simple 1075/1080. How much do you know about steel types?

Check your Visitor Messages.
 
Your Google Fu is weak my son...

Have you seen this ?

The Standard Reply to Newbies v8

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than to a 40 year old engineer, and you may have a helpful neighbour.
We can often recommend a local supplier, but that depends on where you are.
Fill out your profile with your location (Country and State at least), age, education, employment.

Look at the stickies at the top, many are expired, but not all.

The basic process in the simplest terms

Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Website

This is a very detailed set of instructions by Stacy E.Apelt.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=694673


Books

A list of books and videos on the KnifeDogs Forum
http://www.knifedogs.com/showthread.php?t=5285

BladeForums - E-books or book previews Google books
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203

I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
These are clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive too.

Knife Design:
On the Google books thread, you can find
Lloyd Harding drawings
and
the Loveless book with large variety of proven classic styles.

Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith
A modern book with great photos for forging in general - no knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- has 3 books on forging knives. Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way To Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel


The $50 knife shop
It is popular, but it confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary, you can just file and grind everything away to create a knife (stock removal)

The goop quench is total Bull, commercially made quench oils are cheap and easily available, even grocery store canola oil works much better.

Junkyard steels require the skills of an experienced smith to identify the steel and heat treat it properly.
You can buy proper steel like 1084 very cheaply.
(Mentioned in the new edition)

I like cable damascus, but that is an advanced project for an experienced smith and has no place in a beginners book.

The home built grinders are the best thing about the book, but there is now a huge amount of info on home built 2x72 belt grinders on the web.
The revised edition of this book should have included this.


Videos

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
http://www.archive.org/download/gov.ntis.ava08799vnb1/ava08799vnb1_512kb.mp4

Many specific how to knifemaking videos are available.
Some are better than others, but all better than nothing.

The best overall Knifemaking video I have seen is
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

The best video on leather sheath making I have seen is
“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”

You can see a list of some older videos and their reviews at this rental company.
They are not the quickest on getting new titles, but some videos are worth buying, some are worth renting…
Rental wait times are measured in months, buying is MUCH faster, but more costly.
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, -stock removal, hand tools, and neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
"Green Pete" posted it free for those who can use torrent files.

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4995247/Greenpete_s__Knifemaking_Basics_-_Make_a_Mora_Bushcraft_Knife
You can also find it on YouTube broken into 4 parts.


http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=919A0A789FDF2F46




Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot/Lowes… is useless for knives.
If you want to ship out for heat treating, you can use ATS34, 440C, plus many others.

If you want to heat treat yourself, find some 1070, 1080, 1084,
1084 FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated just for knifemaking.

You can find lists of suppliers here
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699736

Aldo’s website inventory is unreliable, call instead.
http://njsteelbaron.com/


Heat Treating
You do not have to buy a lot of equipment to start with.
You can send out for heat treating, 10 or 15 $ per blade

This is a PDF brochure which gives good general info
http://www.buckknives.com/resources/pdf/Paul_Bos_Brochure.pdf

http://www.petersheattreat.com/
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/about_us.php
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)
and others

Grinder / Tools


Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive paper.
The Green Pete video does it this way.

Photo of a nice bevel filing jig .
http://www.flemingknives.com/imagesPrime/FileStation/KPicB007.jpg

Entry Level Grinders
Many makers start with the Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder.


Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinders
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders

Mapp arm
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=466024


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone
Free Plans
http://www.dfoggknives.com/PDF/GrinderPlans.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages-p-723.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
Free plans
http://wilmontgrinders.com/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html

Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html
 
Some of the trouble is the nuance of the search terms.
For knifemakers, "hand made" means "not from a factory." Nothing to do with hand tools vs. power tools.
And for knifemakers, "stock removal" means "not forged." Also nothing to do with hand tools.


Those are intuitive and sensible ways to look for what you're after, but they don't work in this arena. You might try knife making "hand tools" "no electricity", but at this point you've got good resources in this thread already. :)

Here's what I consider the peak of hand-tools-only knifemaking.
http://www.arpadbojtos.sk/knives.html
Pretty jaw-dropping, huh?
 
The third sticky at the top of this forum is very complete instructions for making a knife by hand.
 
12345678910 said:
Your Google Fu is weak my son...

Have you seen this ?

The Standard Reply to Newbies v8

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than to a 40 year old engineer, and you may have a helpful neighbour.
We can often recommend a local supplier, but that depends on where you are.
Fill out your profile with your location (Country and State at least), age, education, employment.

Look at the stickies at the top, many are expired, but not all.

The basic process in the simplest terms

Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Website

This is a very detailed set of instructions by Stacy E.Apelt.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=694673


Books

A list of books and videos on the KnifeDogs Forum
http://www.knifedogs.com/showthread.php?t=5285

BladeForums - E-books or book previews Google books
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203

I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
These are clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive too.

Knife Design:
On the Google books thread, you can find
Lloyd Harding drawings
and
the Loveless book with large variety of proven classic styles.

Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith
A modern book with great photos for forging in general - no knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- has 3 books on forging knives. Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way To Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel


The $50 knife shop
It is popular, but it confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary, you can just file and grind everything away to create a knife (stock removal)

The goop quench is total Bull, commercially made quench oils are cheap and easily available, even grocery store canola oil works much better.

Junkyard steels require the skills of an experienced smith to identify the steel and heat treat it properly.
You can buy proper steel like 1084 very cheaply.
(Mentioned in the new edition)

I like cable damascus, but that is an advanced project for an experienced smith and has no place in a beginners book.

The home built grinders are the best thing about the book, but there is now a huge amount of info on home built 2x72 belt grinders on the web.
The revised edition of this book should have included this.


Videos

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
http://www.archive.org/download/gov.ntis.ava08799vnb1/ava08799vnb1_512kb.mp4

Many specific how to knifemaking videos are available.
Some are better than others, but all better than nothing.

The best overall Knifemaking video I have seen is
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

The best video on leather sheath making I have seen is
“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”

You can see a list of some older videos and their reviews at this rental company.
They are not the quickest on getting new titles, but some videos are worth buying, some are worth renting…
Rental wait times are measured in months, buying is MUCH faster, but more costly.
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, -stock removal, hand tools, and neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
"Green Pete" posted it free for those who can use torrent files.

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4995247/Greenpete_s__Knifemaking_Basics_-_Make_a_Mora_Bushcraft_Knife
You can also find it on YouTube broken into 4 parts.


http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=919A0A789FDF2F46




Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot/Lowes… is useless for knives.
If you want to ship out for heat treating, you can use ATS34, 440C, plus many others.

If you want to heat treat yourself, find some 1070, 1080, 1084,
1084 FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated just for knifemaking.

You can find lists of suppliers here
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699736

Aldo’s website inventory is unreliable, call instead.
http://njsteelbaron.com/


Heat Treating
You do not have to buy a lot of equipment to start with.
You can send out for heat treating, 10 or 15 $ per blade

This is a PDF brochure which gives good general info
http://www.buckknives.com/resources/pdf/Paul_Bos_Brochure.pdf

http://www.petersheattreat.com/
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/about_us.php
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)
and others

Grinder / Tools


Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive paper.
The Green Pete video does it this way.

Photo of a nice bevel filing jig .
http://www.flemingknives.com/imagesPrime/FileStation/KPicB007.jpg

Entry Level Grinders
Many makers start with the Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder.


Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinders
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders

Mapp arm
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=466024


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone
Free Plans
http://www.dfoggknives.com/PDF/GrinderPlans.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages-p-723.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
Free plans
http://wilmontgrinders.com/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html

Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html
Click to expand...

My fu is no more or less then your google fu...I found all these references but I was trying to find an actual knife maker/bladesmith who had done this here in one of my favorite forums..when in rome...or get it form the horses mouth. all the google reference in the world isnt worth the advise of an experienced smith/makers actual proven methods. it distills it done to the absolute basics and cuts the crap out of it.


thank you grasshopper...

good reference none the less.


Mark
 
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