Concerns About Survive! Business and Misleading Lead Time Estimates

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Hale Storm said:
6 more days and my 2.7 should be shipping! It's going to be a LONG week and even longer weekend. Then my perspective should change I guess. I won't have any skin in the game other than wanting S!K to survive. No pun intended.

Maybe someday I'll actually see the GSO 12 on the shelf and "in stock, ready to ship", or even one on the secondary market. I've been looking for a replacement for my ESEE Junglas for chopping and batonning. Haven't found one yet that even comes close in performance that is somewhat in the price range

Seems things have quieted down a bit on all these threads.

Is Survive!Knives actually gaining some ground in November like they promised?
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You should take a look at the Bark River Golok.
It blew away anything me or my friends had.

Junglas, Camp 10, Camp 14, Condor Eco-parang, SP10, Jamie Kauffman Parang, Big Chris Bolo, a custom Parang, a custom Thai Enep were no match.

Waiting for more competition. Namely GSO12, GSO10 and Dakkar
 
One quick question playing devil's advocate, were the refunds coming anyway or were they a result of the two threads that dealt with the subject? I feel like this quick turnaround was once again a reactive move instead of a proactive one. Many S!K fans may hate these complaint threads, but keep in mind that they appear to get results for most people. I hope things improve for all involved, truly.
 
I would say that their actions have been reactive and that the lack of immediate action at the very early stages undoubtedly added to the FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) causing more bleeding and cash hemorrhage. By the same token, there are some nefarious sorts who are saboteurs at worst or antagonists at best which will serve Survive! no good whatsoever. If I was the owner of this business, I would even offer those types a refund for all S!Ks in their possession because I would not want them to carry my products or to represent me in any shape or form (I would find the fund$ from over turning rocks if I had to in order to get these people off my books and you know who you are ;) ).

I am sorry to say this but Survive! does not have a very high level of maturity at the management levels and pains me to be so harsh on them by stating this as they have NEVER done me anything wrong, but I have been around too long or long enough to see and to note weaknesses in a team. If I was in charge of Survive! after announcing a no questions asked grace period regarding refunds, I would impose a re-stocking fee of at least 20% on any and all refund requests outside such grace period. Further, I would not only increase my prices a little more, I would also quote that the fulfillment period can and may run upwards of 12-18 months. Be transparent, be proactive and you shall overcome and Survive! (pun intended) because you have more believers than not and you do offer very good products. More people wish to see you succeed than sink.

I usually charge $350 an hour for my time, but time it was for free :p
 
MLM I was looking through some old threads for unrelated material and found some of your old posts.
The tenor of your posts has changed a lot in the past few months, enough that I found myself checking the spelling of the name to see if it was really the same BF user.
I'm going to paraphrase you because I'm too lazy to go back and do the copy and paste, but back then you were saying that having Guy personally work on each knife is what made the company's reputation and you didn't care how long it took to ship a knife as long as the quality never changed. Do you still support those statements? Do you simply want accurate communications as well?
 
squarebox86 said:
You should take a look at the Bark River Golok.
It blew away anything me or my friends had.
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I was looking at the Golok back shortly after it was released, and I ultimately avoided it after seeing several threads with folks who'd snapped one in half, mid-blade. I've no doubt that they're a good performer in the correct conditions, but if you tend to press things into harder service in harder woods, then I figured it might be a bit on the delicate side. Not sure if it'd be my first choice for limbing hardwoods, or batonning, for example.

If you want a really nice chopper, you might want to have a look at the Carothers light chopper... by all accounts, it's supposed to be crazy good.
 
Fancier said:
MLM I was looking through some old threads for unrelated material and found some of your old posts.
The tenor of your posts has changed a lot in the past few months, enough that I found myself checking the spelling of the name to see if it was really the same BF user.
I'm going to paraphrase you because I'm too lazy to go back and do the copy and paste, but back then you were saying that having Guy personally work on each knife is what made the company's reputation and you didn't care how long it took to ship a knife as long as the quality never changed. Do you still support those statements? Do you simply want accurate communications as well?
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Back then I had only been waiting a few month for some preorders and had gotten my 2nd's in a month. I also remember at one point asking Ellie what if my 7/7 took over a year and she said basically "Oh lord no, the 7/7 shouldn't take over a year, if it does, something has gone horribly wrong".
I have been trying to find that conversation here in this forums.. but haven't.. but know its here somewhere. So once my orders were sitting at over a year and had a LONG looking que in front of them... and after seeing just ONE model (the 4.7) take a year to roll out oh hell yea my tone and concern changed dramatically. Keep in mind it was Ellie's own words way back then, that "IF" the orders were over a year then something has gone horribly wrong and that should not happen. IF I can find that conversation I'll repost it.. but frankly, all that's in the past now.. I cashed out, and have no skin in the game any longer. I have no reason (personally) to complain or fret. 90% of my ill tone was frustration at having skin in the game I was worried about.. no longer.


God speed to you and to Survive!
 
Casinostocks said:
Further, I would not only increase my prices a little more,
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AMEN 100% raise the prices, a good value is one thing, undervalue creates extreme demand for no reason at all, product is great and aren't sticking around for long. I bought a CRUV Ugly Betty for <$120 (forgot actual price) as it was discounted 40% for being an ugly betty. They lost money and that knife is essentially perfect. I beat it through 15 3-5" hard dry logs last weekend motorcycle camping in TN to start a fire in <40F weather...first time batoning myself, no good at it at all, prefer an axe. When I say I beat, I actually beat on it with hardwood through hardwood until my hands were too tired to continue and hold the knife steady. I wiped it off with a hand sanitizer to use it for cutting cured sausage and the edge is still new with wipe/rub marks on the cerakote. They lost money and the knife is still essentially perfect.
 
I got Jordyn to change my 4.1 CPM3V pre-sale order to a 4.7 which will hopefully be a factory 2nd.
It'll only be available after all the exsiting pre-orders have shipped, but at least that'll be quite a few months before that 4.1 pre-sale would have shipped (in theory).

So now my pre-order 4.7 will have some company :D
 
mlmcasual said:
Was only pointing out you were putting out some flat out wrong items, Not a personal attack. If you can't handle someone challenging you on false things you say without name calling, cussing, personal attack accusations, and crying for censorship,..... don't know what to tell ya, get a binky and bottle?
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Yet another infantile personal attack from a troll in need of moderation.
 
Seeing as survive and carothers are tied up somehow with the delta 3v heat treat, I'd love to see them emulate Nathan and Jo's sales model on here. Finish some knives... offer them for sale... build demand... and never owe anyone a thing except what you sold them and delivered a few days later.

On the other hand, despite the valid concerns expressed by many customers here, they have committed significant resources to the current model and even seeing that through is going to require an economy of scale and work. As the original poster pointed out, that may not be sustainable. It just doesn't work to keep paying for current orders with tomorrow's sales.

The silver lining is that it is clear there is a whole lot of goodwill to the company, and I hope that is not something that is taken for granted. This is a tough business if you can't hang onto repeat customers.

I would love to hear a direct response here. It may be asking alot, but even Sal from Spyderco has PM'ed me from time to time...

Transparency is probably worth a whole lot of easy cash right about now.
 
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timichango said:
I was looking at the Golok back shortly after it was released, and I ultimately avoided it after seeing several threads with folks who'd snapped one in half, mid-blade. I've no doubt that they're a good performer in the correct conditions, but if you tend to press things into harder service in harder woods, then I figured it might be a bit on the delicate side. Not sure if it'd be my first choice for limbing hardwoods, or batonning, for example.

If you want a really nice chopper, you might want to have a look at the Carothers light chopper... by all accounts, it's supposed to be crazy good.
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I know Bark River has a very bad record in QC(even my golok's grind was off) but I'm too tempted by some of their design especially if they are inspired from my region (Asia).

I only managed to find one case of a broken golok but winter conditions and since I'm living in a Singapore(South-East Asia) which is hot all year round with a humidity level always above 80%, my only worry is rust. Even 3V will rust here.

Been eyeing Carothers for a while now but they are always gone way to quickly and yet some people are complaining about Survive's availability :rolleyes:

Oh wells, I will have to just wait for the 7/7, 12, 4.5, 10, 8 patiently like an enlighten monk.
Meanwhile ordering cheap choppers and having some fun in the jungle. It's just a hobby afterall, must as well enjoy the most out of it.
 
timichango said:
I was looking at the Golok back shortly after it was released, and I ultimately avoided it after seeing several threads with folks who'd snapped one in half, mid-blade. I've no doubt that they're a good performer in the correct conditions, but if you tend to press things into harder service in harder woods, then I figured it might be a bit on the delicate side. Not sure if it'd be my first choice for limbing hardwoods, or batonning, for example.

If you want a really nice chopper, you might want to have a look at the Carothers light chopper... by all accounts, it's supposed to be crazy good.
Click to expand...

I owned the BR Golok and the Condor. On the Golok, it never happened to me but with the blade I felt like it was going to happen exactly as described and break in half. The Condor left a lot to be desired from a fit and finish stand point. Same on the SP10. I'm not much for Bowie style blades or huge guards either. Say what you will about the Junglas. 3 years of pounding it through Texas oak and it's still going strong.

I wouldn't mind trying some of those blades you described but the Junglas has a size advantage on most and a price advantage on most as well.

Closest thing in that line up is the Carothers but they are pricey (worth the money for sure) and damn hard to find. Almost as hard to find as an original set of Survive!Knives Melamine scales for the GSO 4.1. Oh wait, I have a set of those! :D

Thanks guys for the replies.
 
Say what you will about the BK9, too, but it's one hell of a chopper for the money. Lots of good aftermarket accessories too. I've got mine all kitted out with kydex and micarta, and stripped/patina'd, and love the hell out of it. Wound up being around the same price as a Junglas, but it's a smidge smaller/lighter, and I way preferred the Becker handle ergos.

Worth mentioning, too, that beyond chopping it's a great all around camp knife - nicely ground, reasonably thin behind the edge, and I'm learning that it does a decent job of carving when pressed to the task.

Also can't be beat as a watermelon slicer.
 
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timichango said:
Say what you will about the BK9, too, but it's one hell of a chopper for the money. Lots of good aftermarket accessories too. I've got mine all kitted out with kydex and micarta, and stripped/patina'd, and love the hell out of it. Wound up being around the same price as a Junglas, but it's a smidge smaller/lighter, and I way preferred the Becker handle ergos.

Worth mentioning, too, that beyond chopping it's a great all around camp knife - nicely ground, reasonably thin behind the edge, and I'm learning that it does a decent job of carving when pressed to the task.

Also can't be beat as a watermelon slicer.
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Thanks timichango, you jogged my memory. I started with a BK9 when I first got into knives and everything you say about it is true IMHO. A BK2 was my first foray into any blade above the standard big box store "cheapies". My sons bought me that knife for Fathers Day one year. That lead to me owning almost every BK at some point and I still have the BK2 and a BK13 I keep in the shop on my work bench.

My BK is also modded. Reprofiled the butt end by removing the pommel, custom marble wood scales. Stripped and a tiger stripe patina on the grind. Custom wooden sheath.

That terrible BK2 sheath is also how I got into kydex.

Then, when I made a little money from the sheaths I sold, I moved to the next level of blades which were ESEE, and ultimately found Bark River, then Survive!, and others in the mid tech range. I replaced the BK9 with the Junglas. All of that lead me here. What a ride!!!

I just "need" that GSO 2.7 to ship! ;)
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whitty said:
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The Fletcher Griffin X compares quite favorably to the Junglas in terms of performance. One could argue it compares in price for what you are getting (handmade vs production line). It is a couple hundred more expensive.
 
Casinostocks said:
If I was in charge of Survive! after announcing a no questions asked grace period regarding refunds, I would impose a re-stocking fee of at least 20% on any and all refund requests outside such grace period. Further, I would not only increase my prices a little more, I would also quote that the fulfillment period can and may run upwards of 12-18 months. Be transparent, be proactive and you shall overcome and Survive! (pun intended) because you have more believers than not and you do offer very good products. More people wish to see you succeed than sink.
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If you check out the GSO-4 Limited Production page you can see that we have already started to implement those changes. In addition to those changes, we are going to be limiting options for Factory 2nds orders allowing us to fulfill those more quickly while decreasing our costs and providing more incentive for folks who want one of our firsts. As mentioned in the past, we have rearranged our workflow to improve efficiency. It took a few weeks to get settled in but folks should be starting to see those improvements. With the exception of a few orders that needed a little extra adjustments to their fit & finish, all GSO-4.7 preorders have been fulfilled, all GSO-2.7 Starter preorders have been fulfilled, and we are within the current 15-30 business day quote for weekly sales.

We don't feel that it would be in good conscience to charge a restocking fee on the preorders since that was not included in the terms of those original agreements. Likewise, we can't go back and raise their prices. Until the time machine exists, we will keep focusing on what we can do now and in the future to continually improve. :)
 
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