Considering downsizing, replacing several blades w. one Winkler – seeking input on a few things...

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Hey all,

Sorry in advance for what's turned out to be a bit of an essay here... but here we go!

Life's been pretty... "interesting" for the past few years, and for a variety of reasons, I've been both broadly working on downsizing my overall material footprint/owning less stuff, and also freeing up some cash in the process, for other priorities. I've gone through this process already in other categories of "stuff" (tools, sporting equipment, entertainment/luxury items, etc.), and beyond the intended purposes of needing less space for stuff, and liquidating capital, it's also turned out to be a pretty rewarding process, for me, in some ways, to take a hard look at my propensity to collect stuff that I'm interested in/fond of, and do some soul-searching around deriving more enjoyment from less stuff.

However — the tradeoff being far more deliberate intention/scrutiny applied to exactly what the selected/remaining stuff is. Essentially, focusing on approaching my relationship to material items in a more minimalist/less maximalist fashion.

In the knife/blade-specific arena, like probably most here, I've got a bunch of overlap and redundancy in my knife collection, despite that collection being reasonably small (a few 3-4" folders, and probably eight or nine fixed-blades, mostly biased around the 4-5" range, and the 9-10" range, and a couple of small axes/hatchets). For practical purposes, I've found my strong preference, for my uses (camping, bonfire-making, hiking, general utility, and of course fondling) to be a sturdy, ergonomic fixed-blade with around a 4.5" blade, and a shortish (~14") axe/hatchet. Most of the other stuff gets hauled out for recreational purposes — I mean, heck, it's fun whacking away at wood with a big knife — but in terms of functional utility, when I have to choose something to use, those preferences are where I usually land.

A few years back, I wound up stumbling on a great deal on a Winkler 'combat axe', with a hammer-poll, and fell in love with it. My other small axe is a GB "Outdoor Axe", and while I think it's a really great little piece of kit, and a bit lighter than the Winkler, I very much bonded with the Winkler, and find it to be a really versatile, comfortable, predictable tool, as well as being easy to maintain, and easy to love. And there's definitely something to be said for the knowledge that it's probably as functionally indestructable as a tool can be. And it's got this intangible quality to it, maybe beyond simple ergonomics, that just makes it feel great to use. As a sum of its elements, it just comes together perfectly.

Soooo... given my fondness for the Winkler axe, and my contemplation of downsizing my knife collection, I've been actively wondering if replacing my assortment of pretty-nice knives with a single Winkler knife (very likely his Belt Knife) would be a prudent, reasonable choice?

For context (and I'll refrain from specifics here, as I have zero intention of generating any discussion about selling any specific items via this post — to the extent that I'll respectfully decline to answer any specific inquiries about which items I'm talking about), some of the knives in my current collection come from makers like Survive, Carothers, Becker, and a couple of smaller custom makers here on the forum. Getting rid of them would sting a bit, no doubt, as I really appreciate each and every one of them for what they are. However, my mindset, at present, is that in the end, I'd probably be very well served by just one knife (provided it was the right knife), in the right size, to go with that Winkler axe... which naturally leads me to wonder if the Winkler Belt Knife might be that 'right' knife — the one fixed-blade that I can bond with, and be satisfied with, for a variety of uses, for the foreseeable future. If I'm only going to have one, I'd like it to be the one — a functional heirloom, so to speak. I do already have a couple of blades that probably meet the criteria on durability/quality alone, but which (and we're getting into intangibles here, for sure) don't really feel like that knife, for one reason or another.

Any ideas, thoughts, critiques, admonitions, etc. on this topic, from the experienced and insightful bunch of folks around here, would be sincerely appreciated. Thanks in advance!

As a separate (and maybe easier to respond to!) inquiry: does anyone around here know if there are any vendors in Canada who sell the Wasp-patterned micarta Winklers? There's a shop in Vancouver, not too far from me, that's got the black micarta ones and maple ones, but nothing in the waspy varietal. Thanks!
 
If that's what you want, I say get it.

I'm pretty sure you can resell it for close to what you paid if you don't like it.

I wouldn't do it, but I don't really care for the design.
 
If that's what you want, I say get it.

I'm pretty sure you can resell it for close to what you paid if you don't like it.

I wouldn't do it, but I don't really care for the design.

Thanks for the input :) My hesitation and contemplation about this has less, really, to do with being afraid of not liking the Winkler (as you suggested, I suspect it'd hold its value rather well) — and more to do with probably not being able to readily replace some of the other stuff if I truly wound up regretting letting them go. It's hard, this whole trying-to-replace-a-bunch-of-nice-stuff-with-one-ideal-object process ;) The collecting/coveting instinct dies hard.

Since you mentioned that you don't care for the design, I feel compelled to ask: what about the design don't you like? Given that I'm sizing it up as a potential one-and-only for myself, I'm definitely interested in any negative input on it, as an option for that role, as well as positive.

Cheers,
T
 
Why not just keep the Carothers (if its a FK or HDFK)?
That would also tie in well with your wish to reduce your 'material footprint.'
I mean, why buy new stuff - and make a bigger footprint (as that seems to be your concern) - when you can just reduce the collection you already have.
 
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I have definitely bonded with the Winkler Woodsman, to where I don't really entertain needing another knife in it's category. While I change out folders with regularity, and EDC smaller fixed blades, I look forward to having and using the Woodsman for as long as I can imagine, for the tasks it was intended for. Mine is in maple, so no advice for you on the wasp-patterned micarta. But the Winkler knives seem as solid as they come, feature a fantastic lined Kydex sheath with a leather cover, and the company and their customer service are great.
 
I feel compelled to ask: what about the design don't you like?

There isn't anything about the design that really catches my eye; kind of generic and not refined.

80CRV2 is a great steel and the sheath looks nice, but it doesn't have much going for it otherwise IMO.

$350 - $385 for a basic knife with little finish work seems a bit high to me, but someone's obviously buying them.

I'd rather have a Carothers than a Winkler.
 
timichango timichango - just try using them (both winklers) for a couple of months and see if it really meets all your needs. Get some projects going, a little light home reno always helps get dust & cobwebs out of the woodwork... or go camping if you're into that or long extended hiking outings?

all of that should shake loose what you really end up needing
 
I do own a few Winkler knives ... the Hunting Knife and the Blue Ridge Hunter ... and most recently the smaller Winkler/Jason Knight colab the Jager Knife ...

they are very nice knives ... I chose the Hunting Knife over the Belt knife out of personal preference ... and I really like the small Jager knife ...

I have to say though I love my Beckers and my CPK knives ... I believe all 3 brands could last a lifetime if maintained ...

but if I had to pick only one in the size range you mentioned ... I think I would lean towards the CPK Field Knife or Heavy Duty Field knife ... the D3V will handle a bit more abuse and ask for more ...

but if the Winkler is what calls to you I'd say go for it ... I like my Winklers.
 
Why not just keep the Carothers (if its a FK or HDFK)?
That would also tie in well with your wish to reduce your 'material footprint.'
I mean, why buy new stuff - and make a bigger footprint (as that seems to be your concern) - when you can just reduce the collection you already have.

Thanks for the reply. My comments about 'footprint', just to clarify, are referring only to the amount of stuff I own, overall, and it's spatial/financial footprint in my own life — not referring to any sort of ecological footprint stemming from manufacturing, which I realize is another way that the term 'footprint' does get applied. In any case, as an ecological concern, what I tend to lament is the manufacture of crappy disposable items that wind up on their way to the landfill without providing much benefit or utility — and to my mind, none of the stuff I'm talking about remotely falls into that category, being well-made, high-utility tools, that should, by all reasonable projections, last lifetimes if cared for.

As far as the Carothers goes — I'm going to refrain from offering any indication here about which model I've got, as I really don't want to fall afoul of any forum rules regarding discussion of items for sale (which my knives aren't, as yet, but still), but my knife is great, it's super well designed, and I've very much enjoyed using it in the tasks for which it's suited, and it's proved itself to be very durable. However — and this is, again, a purely subjective thing — there's something about the feel of my Winkler axe that I don't get from the Carothers. While it's a very comfortable tool, there's something about it, in my hand, that, over time, has come to feel a bit... vague is maybe the right word? Probably just a specific-fit thing between my knife, and my hand. And as much as I like it, and am fascinated by the design and materials refinement that've gone into it, whatever that 'something' is has limited my ability to bond with it.

Also, as much as I think 3v is stupendous stuff, and as much as I've got the gear to deal with maintaining it when necessary, I've personally come to the conclusion that I really prefer dealing with somewhat more conventional high-carbon steels — for me, the comparative ease of maintenance of good ol' rusty carbon steels outweighs the other benefits conveyed by 3v, and its heaps of vanadium.
 
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the good thing is, 3v will rust like carbon steels (only somewhat more slowly) and maintenance really is easier than 20cv / m390 and other 'super' steels

I'm curious if you've ever had to do more than stropping on your carothers blade?
 
the good thing is, 3v will rust like carbon steels (only somewhat more slowly) and maintenance really is easier than 20cv / m390 and other 'super' steels

I'm curious if you've ever had to do more than stropping on your carothers blade?

Yeah, agree on the relative ease vs. those other examples.

Yes, regarding the stropping — I've periodically needed to go back to the ceramics (rods from sharpmaker, used freehand) to bring the edge back to where I want it, after a bunch of varied use. Not that often, but often enough. If I'm on top of wear from lighter use, then yeah, some stropping on a good strop with CBN compounds tends to do the trick. Once, I've needed to take it all the way back to a fine Sigma Power Select stone, for a few strokes, as things were taking too long with the brown sharpmaker rod for my liking, but that was an extreme case after some neglect. The D3v is good, no qualms there about its wear-resistance, whatsoever.

But still, as meditative as I do find stropping to be, all that wear resistance does seem, in my experience, to mean that D3v (actually, 3v in general — I had a Zero Tolerance with 3v that I felt roughly the same about in the maintenance department) does take a lot more passes on whatever hone/strop I'm using, and has been more challenging, for me, to get back to scary-sharp (as compared to other high-carbon tool steels). Not prohibitively so, mind you, but still.

And yes, I'm fully aware that I'm picking nits and being fussy :)
 
Reducing is great and get the Winkler if it meets that need, but I think the CPKs are well worth holding onto. I believe you are overthinking all this. Keep what works, or because of sentimental reasons hold onto them, reduce the herd and help others enjoy the hobby. Good luck with your quest.
 
Reducing is great and get the Winkler if it meets that need, but I think the CPKs are well worth holding onto. I believe you are overthinking all this. Keep what works, or because of sentimental reasons hold onto them, reduce the herd and help others enjoy the hobby. Good luck with your quest.

Thanks for that! This feels like sound, measured advice. Overthinking things is kind-of a specialty of mine, and it's definitely played a historical role in my propensity to collect things in general, knives included.
 
I really like my Belt Knife. It came from the US before W&W had them in the store.

I think that if that's what you want you can talk to them or about a special order. If they can't do it then just order from the USA.

The quality and scarcity is more than high enough that if you don't like in person you can resell and try again.
 
for people who don't have the budget for a winkler 80crv2 or custom... a skrama or jääkäripuukko should be seriously investigated
 
There isn't anything about the design that really catches my eye; kind of generic and not refined.

I won't disagree with you (much) along the lines of basic aesthetics — at least in the black micarta variant, as compared to some of the other stuff out there (and in my own collection) that's obviously placed aesthetics higher on the list of priorities. It's definitely not the prettiest knife I've ever seen, objectively speaking — but that's also not really my main criteria either.

I do, however, admittedly like the general rough-and-tumble, no-nonsense aesthetic of them in their own right... and if my experience with my Winkler axe is any indication, there's maybe something kind of liberating about a comparatively (and, dare I say, deceptively) simple tool, in the hand, asking to be used. From the first time I grabbed the axe, it felt like it was 'broken-in' like a good pair of boots, and considering the materials (micarta & steel), somehow unexpectedly organic. The lines are perfect, the friction of the finish just right, and its contours neither too angular or too voluptuous... and it feels great no matter how or where I grip it, or use it.

If the belt knife has the same essential feel, then that'll ultimately be all the confirmation I'd need that it's refined in the ways that're ultimately a priority to me.

80CRV2 is a great steel and the sheath looks nice, but it doesn't have much going for it otherwise IMO.

I've read a bit about 80CRV2, and it sounds like good stuff :) Glad to hear another confirmation of that.

The axe sheath has a similar design (felt-lined kydex), and its' definitely a notch-up in most respects than any other Kydex I've used. One downside I've found with the felt lining is the tendency for moisture to get absorbed a bit, in wet conditions, which does mean that a bit of extra care's needed to clean/dry/oil things, and let the sheath dry out, once out of the wet. But really... no practical difference in that regard to a leather sheath that's taken on a bit of water. It just won't drip dry, or blow-out, as easily as straight kydex. I'm assuming that the knife sheaths are much the same, given the similar construction.

$350 - $385 for a basic knife with little finish work seems a bit high to me, but someone's obviously buying them.

I've got not much frame of reference for what constitutes 'basic', really, as I've never made a knife. Certainly, it's not cheap (and even less so once you get one up here in the great white north), and the price has obviously given me enough pause that I haven't just snapped one up to try out alongside my other blades before coming to any conclusions about my subjective preference among them. But then, I've also bought other great, capable knives, made out of very good materials, for less money (but still not that inexpensive), and wound up investing more into the sheath, or the carry, or fancier stones to deal with the fancier steel, or whatever, so really, what's the comparative cost of ownership, if — for argument's sake — the Winkler doesn't wind up needing any of that extra to make it work for me, while still delivering excellent performance, as it's reputed to do?

Of course, I reckon that's ultimately projection, guesswork, and wishful thinking on my part, without the benefit of actually using one a bunch.

I'd rather have a Carothers than a Winkler.

I've got tools from each of them, and while those tools aren't directly comparable, I do find that they each have their own unique virtues, which the other does not. I'm definitely a pretty lucky person to have the privilege of being able to split hairs over which maker's wares I'm more enamoured with.
 
I like my Belt Knife a great deal and also recently picked up his collab with Case- the Skinner. That is one of the best feeling knives I've ever picked up. It has less tip strength than the Belt Knife and the sheath isn't as nice but I am very happy with that buy.
 
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