Corona thread. No politics please

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Viruses generally dont mutate to a more dangerous/lethal type. Thats counterintuitive to the survival of the pathogen. You can't reproduce and spread if you kill your host too quickly. Gain of function mutations are generally done with things like CRISPR in artificial environments.
Ideally, from the virus' point of view, it would mutate to be even less symptomatic to ensure it can reproduce longer. This is very observable with lots of repeatability in nature.
Lets not (keep) flipping out over news articles, okay?

And just for the record, any time you ever let someone prepare food for you, you've taken a risk with your health and life that definitely could be more debilitating than a bit of a flu.
Didnt stop you, did it? Isn't stopping you now, is it? You like being exposed to pathogens that could make you cough out worms? What about bacteria that can kill a whole room full of people with their farts? Anyone that's taken some food safety courses knows how dangerous food can be, but nobody is trying to ban restaurants (yet).
You've all been exposed to far more dangerous things your whole lives, you've just not been beaten with the fear stick while looking at news articles about them.
Life is risky. Go outside and live or grow a set and taste some muzzle flash. If you've neglected your machine to the point that a flu will kill you that's not my problem- it's yours.
Making everyone else coddle the .3 percent of people that might get really sick by shutting their lives down by force is unacceptable and wrong. You worried? Stay home. Stay inside. Dont wreck my life because you're cowardly and you realized the world isn't the safest place all of a sudden.
 
I do my best to avoid getting sick but a big part of me has accepted that we will all likely contract it sooner or later. Waiting for a vaccine just isn't feasible. I just hope that if I get it, symptoms will be mild. As an asthma sufferer, something like pneumonia scares the sh*t out of me.

And I'm with you on keeping myself protected. We wear masks/gloves whenever we go shopping (every 2 weeks or so) and we try to practice proper sanitation procedures like immediately washing our hands when coming into the house, sanitizing door handles, and even changing clothes. I was never a big "prepper" or weapons guy but I have to admit that this whole pandemic changed my attitude towards owning a more "combat ready" knife. I'm now the owner of a UF.

Just seeing how attitudes have changed (relaxed) just over 2-3 weeks is scary. You're right that a 2nd wave is going to happen. What frustrates me with all this is transmission can be SIGNIFICANTLY reduced if EVERYONE just donned face coverings. It doesn't need to be N95/surgical/medical masks. ANY kind of face covering works yet I observe fewer and fewer people wearing masks as they become relaxed with the whole situation.

Don't even get me started on the protesters......
 
AndreLinoge said:
Viruses generally dont mutate to a more dangerous/lethal type. Thats counterintuitive to the survival of the pathogen. You can't reproduce and spread if you kill your host too quickly. Gain of function mutations are generally done with things like CRISPR in artificial environments.
Ideally, from the virus' point of view, it would mutate to be even less symptomatic to ensure it can reproduce longer. This is very observable with lots of repeatability in nature.
Lets not (keep) flipping out over news articles, okay?

And just for the record, any time you ever let someone prepare food for you, you've taken a risk with your health and life that definitely could be more debilitating than a bit of a flu.
Didnt stop you, did it? Isn't stopping you now, is it? You like being exposed to pathogens that could make you cough out worms? What about bacteria that can kill a whole room full of people with their farts? Anyone that's taken some food safety courses knows how dangerous food can be, but nobody is trying to ban restaurants (yet).
You've all been exposed to far more dangerous things your whole lives, you've just not been beaten with the fear stick while looking at news articles about them.
Life is risky. Go outside and live or grow a set and taste some muzzle flash. If you've neglected your machine to the point that a flu will kill you that's not my problem- it's yours.
Making everyone else coddle the .3 percent of people that might get really sick by shutting their lives down by force is unacceptable and wrong. You worried? Stay home. Stay inside. Dont wreck my life because you're cowardly and you realized the world isn't the safest place all of a sudden.
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FF: as an asthmatic person, try to adhere to the holy trinity of donning a face mask plus safety glasses + latex gloves if you can muster 'em.

ETA: from what you have shared with us in terms of a little window in your life, i.e, your passion for the outdoors, camping and botanical flairs, I think that you have built your self certain advantages already ;)
 
AndreLinoge said:
If you've neglected your machine to the point that a flu will kill you that's not my problem- it's yours.
Making everyone else coddle the .3 percent of people that might get really sick by shutting their lives down by force is unacceptable and wrong. You worried? Stay home. Stay inside. Dont wreck my life because you're cowardly and you realized the world isn't the safest place all of a sudden.
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Right, 'neglecting my machine' by getting old and getting cancer. Fucking dipshit.
 
AndreL: there are some gaping holes in your assertions:

1- COVID-19 is not like the common flu! I happen to believe in the data which AXIOS reports: https://www.axios.com and I also believe that the U.S still enjoys one of the best freedoms of the press, so I rather go by the official numbers, which again IMHO despite being vastly underreported, they are what they are so as a percentile, the certified deaths as opposed to the certified reported cases is much closer to .6% which is 2 x the .3% to which you have eluded to. To me 2 x much as something is not even close to that assumed thing! For reference, the annual flu's rate of mortality is .1%

2- You worried, stay home! Nah, it doesn't work that way! There is no unlimited supply of stimulus for the working person so they will have to go to work.

I will leave thing at that because this thread is based on the goodwill of its participants to stay apolitical.
 
ETA: guys please keep the place devoid of personal attacks and insults. This is Nathan's guesthouse and the kinda things which we take for granted in here could cost him and Jo a sale or two. Now he may not particularly care in private but in public, let's just be good guests :)
 
OT:

I am not trying to give Andre a hard time as I offend similarly with known friends ;)

As most of you know, Grog and I are very good offline friends despite him being a major shytehead. We often chat offline although a lot less since his beloved Gypsy passed last Nov. He knows that I'm an angry commie and I know that he's a misguided angry drunk but none of that stops us from being good and civilized friends who will absolutely watch for each others' backs.

I promise y'all that once his gender reassignment surgery is fully completed, we will have a much better looking yet still really fugly Grogger back among our midst :D
 
^ the last time when we spoke, he told me that his p*ssified nephew was petrified of having to go back to work. I though that maybe his nephew was one of these meat-packing factory workers or something really high risk in IA. Then I come to find out that the nephew is a lifeguard! I sayz wot?! A lifeguard in landlocked friggin IA?! Grog sayz, "a LG at the poolside, yer dipshit". I sayz, I really ought to come up and murder the two of youse :D
 
Casinostocks said:
^ I am no scientist but I read about such historical pasts; COVID-19 will eventually become an endemic which is not a matter of if but when. That said, I have a "feeling" that COVID-19 will see more of our demise as a species than that of its own demise and if so, I think that we did fully earn it.

I have been going back and forth on this one over the past few days and came to the conclusion that if & when possible, it is best for one's own sanity and a way forward, to adapt a very libertarian attitude toward the current pandemic. What brought me to this farm of mind, is seeing the same cabal of assholes who deny climate change and poo-poo vaccination (both on the right & the left) have started to repurpose their debunked arguments toward COVID-19 which means that more and more of those with the handicap to think for themselves will be following suit.

Granted that life will have to get back to a form of normalcy post COVID-19 and that people will have to be gainfully employed and make a living. Any other alternative to these facts will be unfathomable and IMHO a lot more dangerous to the survival of our collective societies. As an individual, all that I can do is to assume personal responsibilities and also to afford people the same choices. Just don't get too close to me and I think that we will be good; get way too close and I may have to kill you, either figuratively with my words or literally using my hands aided with some other cool killing tools.

I think that it is easier for me to say this because I have lived a decent amount t of life, my Kids are all grown up and supposedly adults plus I really don't wish to see any grandkids under the current environment of stupidity and ignorance. #sayzme
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Unfortunately, some folks seem to mistake 'cautious reopening' with 'all clear'.

One of my friends said something in semi-jest, that stuck with me: "We don't currently know what the % chances are of suffering long term damage from infection with this, but we do need to restart the economy to mitigate the economic damage from closures.

Without a viable vaccine at this time, the only way past this is with herd immunity, and that's not going to happen effectively or quickly if everyone shelters in place. The solution is simple: begin reopening, and allow Darwinism to self-select volunteers to see if we can reach herd immunity safely. If we discover that it wasn't the safest approach, people made their own choices".

Don't feel like taking any steps to protect yourself? We thank you for your sacrifice.
 
AndreLinoge said:
Viruses generally dont mutate to a more dangerous/lethal type. Thats counterintuitive to the survival of the pathogen. You can't reproduce and spread if you kill your host too quickly. Gain of function mutations are generally done with things like CRISPR in artificial environments.
Ideally, from the virus' point of view, it would mutate to be even less symptomatic to ensure it can reproduce longer. This is very observable with lots of repeatability in nature.
Lets not (keep) flipping out over news articles, okay?

And just for the record, any time you ever let someone prepare food for you, you've taken a risk with your health and life that definitely could be more debilitating than a bit of a flu.
Didnt stop you, did it? Isn't stopping you now, is it? You like being exposed to pathogens that could make you cough out worms? What about bacteria that can kill a whole room full of people with their farts? Anyone that's taken some food safety courses knows how dangerous food can be, but nobody is trying to ban restaurants (yet).
You've all been exposed to far more dangerous things your whole lives, you've just not been beaten with the fear stick while looking at news articles about them.
Life is risky. Go outside and live or grow a set and taste some muzzle flash. If you've neglected your machine to the point that a flu will kill you that's not my problem- it's yours.
Making everyone else coddle the .3 percent of people that might get really sick by shutting their lives down by force is unacceptable and wrong. You worried? Stay home. Stay inside. Dont wreck my life because you're cowardly and you realized the world isn't the safest place all of a sudden.
Click to expand...
can't say that's the dumbest thing I've read on the subject, but it's in the running
 
fatfrog said:
Things are starting to reopen up in Canada; however, this news + nicer weather = people being way too relaxed. I went to Costco and Home Depot yesterday and noticed MANY people without masks.

From what I've personally seen:
  • 6 weeks ago: ~60% mask usage
  • 3 weeks ago: ~95%+ mask usage
  • Yesterday: ~65% mask usage + unmasked woman coughing directly into her hands.
This past weekend's weather was shit so things were quiet but the weekend before was gorgeous. Apparently our local lakeshore/boardwalk was PACKED.

We are going to be so screwed in the second wave.
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agreed.
thing that blows my mind is;
South Korea population; 51 million, 11 thousand infections, 260 deaths
Canada population; 38 million, 70 thousand infections, 5000 deaths
and we think we're on top of it?
people are dying of this shit in equatorial countries, which are warm
I'm not taking any risks, setting the bike shop up to be completely contact free
 
The math is scary and that's why well before Bill Gates assumed deity status many people warned that inevitably viruses, bacteria and other pathogens would develop into a form we had little or no immunity to or treatment for. There are so many of them and they mutate so fast that inevitably they will find our weak spot. Evolution ain't pretty, especially when you lose.
This is not the end of the world. This is not the Black death or small pox or polio.
Compare how they coped and how we cope. At least we're not burning witches. Not yet anyway.Different times, different culture - and beyond that it's politics and that's not for here.

Not the Black Death, But it is a real pandemic and very dangerous.
Make no mistake this is a huge warning sign though. The doctors don't really understand this Sars-2 virus. They do know it ain't no flu. it selectively attacks different organs, usually starting in the gastro, and it can attack the heart, the brain, blood causing bleeding or coagulations as well as the immunity storm, and they have very little ability to predict who will die from it. Doctor Radio on Sirius XM gives it to you straighter than any other source I've heard and they pioneered this stuff. Scary. And this pandemic is a pussycat next to what may come.

We should be preparing for a really serious one ( viral or bacterial ) by some strategy better than shutting everything down and hiding in the closet.
Me, i have my priorities straight, hoarding the best knives, and scotch, i can.
 
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Lorien said:
can't say that's the dumbest thing I've read on the subject, but it's in the running
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With some posts, I may try to correct a point where the poster might have been misinformed. With other posts, I may make an attempt to provide a perspective they may not have considered.

Then there are the posts where I don't even know where to start, and don't feel like addressing every single thing point by point, so I just choose to forget it exists, but you're somewhat blunter. Lol.
 
Lorien said:
agreed.
thing that blows my mind is;
South Korea population; 51 million, 11 thousand infections, 260 deaths
Canada population; 38 million, 70 thousand infections, 5000 deaths
and we think we're on top of it?
people are dying of this shit in equatorial countries, which are warm
I'm not taking any risks, setting the bike shop up to be completely contact free
Click to expand...

What's crazy is South Korea's population density is WAY higher than Canada too.
Google says SK has a population density of 503 people / km2 while Canada only has 4 people / km2.
 
bluemax_1 said:
Without a viable vaccine at this time, the only way past this is with herd immunity, and that's not going to happen effectively or quickly if everyone shelters in place. The solution is simple: begin reopening, and allow Darwinism to self-select volunteers to see if we can reach herd immunity safely. If we discover that it wasn't the safest approach, people made their own choices".
Click to expand...

The reopening of society should really happen in phases based on risk groups. What I mean by this is let the low-risk population go out first and only those individuals who don't live with anyone in a high(er) risk group. Let people in their 20s/30s go out. Some will get sick, the vast majority will recover. Once people in the 20s-30s develop immunity (hopefully), let out the next bunch: people in their 40s, and so on and so forth.

I don't know how to phase kids back into school though. I keep hearing about kids going back to school and it honestly sounds like the worst idea ever. Anyone who's a parent or knows a parent have seen how quickly illnesses spread among children and how kids ALWAYS bring illnesses home. We have a neice/nephew who are in school and I swear they are ALWAYS sick, sniffling, sneezing, dripping, coughing, etc. I can't even count the number of times they've coughed/sneezed directly in my face when I've held them and gotten sick as a result.
 
fatfrog said:
What's crazy is South Korea's population density is WAY higher than Canada too.
Google says SK has a population density of 503 people / km2 while Canada only has 4 people / km2.
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That's a little misleading on the population density because Canada is vastly larger than South Korea. What if you look at cities -Seoul versus Montreal, for example. Most Canadians live in cities and near the US border. That may make the densities in the hardest hit areas about the same?

Just musing out loud.
 
TRfromMT said:
That's a little misleading on the population density because Canada is vastly larger than South Korea. What if you look at cities -Seoul versus Montreal, for example. Most Canadians live in cities and near the US border. That may make the densities in the hardest hit areas about the same?

Just musing out loud.
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Yeah, that's a good point and it's not a fair comparison country:country but if we look at the examples you provided:
Seoul = ~16,000ppl/km2
Montreal = ~4500ppl/km2

I think a big part of the lack of transmission in many Asian countries is their common use of facemasks before all this started. Or they could just be fudging the numbers. Who really knows.
 
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