corrosion test result --- INFI 1 : vinegar 0

RokJok

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A favorite patina method for me is to boil white vinegar, then submerge the blade in it for 10 minutes or more. On high carbon steels like 1095 or A2 this method typically yields a nice dark gray gun-metal colored patina of consistent color. The mustard or Miracle Whip patinas can get splotchy due to their paste-like consistency causing inconsistent contact with the metal, even though it is the vinegar in them doing the patina building.

I like to use a heavy beer mug for standing the knife upright while soaking. That uses less vinegar than covering the knife in a cake pan. Obviously, the beer mug limits the length of blade that can get soaked this way moreso than does a 9x13 cake pan or a sheet pan. Good thing I use the house brand el-cheapo white vinegar from the grocery store, something like 89 cents a gallon.

I tried the boiling vinegar soak yesterday on an INFI Scrapper 5 LE to see if INFI would patina up this way. It didn't touch the INFI at all.

At the end of 10 minutes, the INFI looked like it did when it went into the hot vinegar bath -- shiny silver color. So I put the knife back into the bath, not expecting it to do much because with the patina method most of the effect is usually in place in the first 5 minutes or so. After the Scrapper had spent 20 minutes total in the soak, there was no change. The INFI still looked like it did the day it left the shop.

After taking the S5 LE out of the vinegar bath, I put in an A2 blade that the vinegar darkened up okay (not great) even though the vinegar was mostly cooled off by that point in time.

So I'm thinking that INFI is pretty resistant to corrosion from acids. I will have to try some phosphoric acid rust-remover spray which stains cast iron *immediately* or a saturated salt-water soak to see how INFI fares in those environments. More results then.
 
It's curious that INFI will take a patina from meat, however. Raw or cooked red meat will discolor the steel. Wonder why?
 
Blood is very corrosive and will stain most any non stainless steel pretty easy if left sitting for very long.
 
It's curious that INFI will take a patina from meat, however. Raw or cooked red meat will discolor the steel. Wonder why?

That's the INFI getting full.
Who wants to drink boiled vinegar? I prefer a side of beef. I'm sure INFI does, too.

Source: I am a science
 
That's the INFI getting full.
Who wants to drink boiled vinegar? I prefer a side of beef. I'm sure INFI does, too.

Source: I am a science

I'm with you. Boiled vinegar sounds terrible. Now a steak on the other hand, AWESOME.

Garth
 
I was researching coatings and treatments on INFI last night and learned some interesting things from threads here as far back as 2004--INFI behaves much like a stainless steel, meaning that it can't be Parkerized or passivated. That was kind of a disappointment to me because I love the way Parkerized metals look, and also just the idea of affecting metals with electricity or something on such a microscopic or molecular level to achieve some superficial effect is awesome.

Anyway, I wonder if it's because of this stainless steel-ish property that INFI won't pick up a patina from vinegar, and I also wonder if that meat "patina" isn't something else...
 
Last edited:
uyotg said:
I wonder if it's because of this stainless steel-ish property that INFI won't pick up a patina from vinegar, and I also wonder if that meat "patina" isn't something else...
Yes, at 8.25% INFI has a fair amount of chromium and IIRC the cobalt also adds to the stain resistance. Rule of thumb is that "stainless steel" starts at 13% chromium, which is why D2 at 12% is sometimes called "semi-stainless" since it falls a percentage point shy of the magic 13.

INFI composition:
V .36% Vanadium
Cr 8.25% Chrome
Fe 87.79% Iron
Co .95% Cobalt
Ni .74% Nickel
Mo 1.3% Molybdenum
C .5% carbon
N .11% Nitrogen

Also, how the heat treat is accomplished adds into the mix, depending on how much of the chromium is left free, not tied up in creating chrome carbides. (reaching **WAY** back in the memory banks trying to recall obscure metallurgy facts on that chrome-bonding issue) According to info on Wikipedia's steel page,
Chromium, vanadium, molybdenum, and tungsten increase strength by forming second-phase carbides.
There have been anecdotal incidents where INFI came out close to par with some stainless steels in rust prevention.

As for the meat/blood laying down a coating of patina, blood has amino acids and salts in it that might be what creates patina. Here is one listing of blood composition.
Blood consist of cellular material (99% red blood cells, with white blood cells and platelets making up the remainder), water, amino acids, proteins, carbohydrates, lipids, hormones, vitamins, electrolytes, dissolved gases, and cellular wastes. Each red blood cell is about 1/3 hemoglobin, by volume. Plasma is about 92% water, with plasma proteins as the most abundant solutes. The main plasma protein groups are albumins, globulins, and fibrinogens. The primary blood gases are oxygen, carbon dioxide, and nitrogen.
 
Anyway, I wonder if it's because of this stainless steel-ish property that INFI won't pick up a patina from vinegar, and I also wonder if that meat "patina" isn't something else...


I think Jerry might say something like

"Analyze less, drink more!"
:D
 
Yes, I never needed to boil but I have wrapped a twisted vinegar soaked paper towel around most non stainless steel blades to produce a nice patina pattern. All it did was clean my INFI and make it shine.
 
It's curious that INFI will take a patina from meat, however. Raw or cooked red meat will discolor the steel. Wonder why?

Weird! Huh?

I have had BBQ chicken piping hot from the grill give a blue color.

I was so excicted (I patina my other knives with outher steels).

Soap, and very hot water did not take off.

The next time I cut chicken (next evening) that made it go away.
 
Remember the rainbow fighter from about 8 or 9 years ago ?
I think it was done with heat though ?
 
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