Country of Origin - Am I right or wrong?

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Alpha3

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I like to know where my knives are made. I own many knives that are made in the USA, but an equal number that are made in China. This is not about China. This is about how some retailers may cover up where a knife is made.

Some retailers say that a knife is "Made In" or "Manufactured In". To me this makes it clear where the knife was made. However, I've noted that as of late, some retailers are instead using "Country of Origin". I can’t help but wonder why? This can indicate where the knife was made, BUT I also feel that this is intentionally ambiguous and may not actually mean what we think. For example, I live in NH and come up with a knife design and then reach out to a company in China to make the knife. They ship it to me, and I go over all the knives for quality control reasons. I might even put on scales that are made in the USA. Then the knives are sold and their “Country of Origin” is the USA, because this is where the concept and design of the knife originated. I think it's time that retailers stop using "Country of Origin".
 
The retailers generally get the copy from the distributor or manufacturer. "Weasel wording" is a fine old national institution. You can thank the lawyers for any confusion.

(This post was proudly assembled in the U.S.A. from entirely American parts originating in Europe...)
 
This thread is NOT about China and opinions on Chinese knives (yet again). It's about defining "Country of Origin". Otherwise...it will be VERY short lived.
 
In the past I worked as a consulting engineer for many manufacturing companies like Badger meter, Bose, Leviton....

Leviton made most of GE's electronic parts like wall outlets, power cords etc. The manufacturing was done in Mexico and assembly of the components was done in the USA. The finished product was made in the USA. Similarly, Bose had all the manufacturing done in Mexico and assembly done in the USA
Finished product was claimed made in the USA. This was back in the 90's. So this has been happening for a long time. These operations were called Maquiladoras. Not much different than products made in Asia and sold as USA made.
 
There are some brands that are shady about where their products are made because they've figured out that they can command higher prices by saying made in USA and lower their production costs by actually manufacturing in China. Some of these are blatant about it and have been outed as liars. Others are vague and don't say exactly where their products are made because they know a lot of consumers either don't care or aren't willing to investigate.

But I would say that there are also certainly cases where it's difficult to honestly disclose where a knife is made. Especially for a smaller startup brand that's sourcing different components from different manufacturers, how would you accurately convey that if they're located in different countries? For instance, I have a Halfbreed Blades knife that has the kydex sheath and G10 handles made in the USA, the initial blanking for the blade done in Taiwan, and the finish work done in Australia. Halfbreed opts to explain this rather than have one country lasered into the blade that may not tell the whole story, but other brands might want to simplify things.

Some production processes might not be available in the US, too. I don't think there are factories here that drop forge, so if an American brand wanted to make a knife like that, they'd probably have to do the forging in Taiwan. If they then do extensive grinding and machining to the forged blank in the US, the knife would have enough of its production value done here that it would legally qualify as a US-made product. But I sense that the typical knife enthusiast might feel deceived by that, even though the manufacture of most products is very globalized like that.
 
I have some fancy backpacks that say something silly like "Designed in California." Nobody cares where your bag was designed.
 
Alpha3 said:
I like to know where my knives are made. I own many knives that are made in the USA, but an equal number that are made in China. This is not about China. This is about how some retailers may cover up where a knife is made.

Some retailers say that a knife is "Made In" or "Manufactured In". To me this makes it clear where the knife was made. However, I've noted that as of late, some retailers are instead using "Country of Origin". I can’t help but wonder why? This can indicate where the knife was made, BUT I also feel that this is intentionally ambiguous and may not actually mean what we think. For example, I live in NH and come up with a knife design and then reach out to a company in China to make the knife. They ship it to me, and I go over all the knives for quality control reasons. I might even put on scales that are made in the USA. Then the knives are sold and their “Country of Origin” is the USA, because this is where the concept and design of the knife originated. I think it's time that retailers stop using "Country of Origin".
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Actually, "Country of Origin:" is not as devious as you may think. In terms of import regulations, the term is effectively the same as "Made in..." or "Manifactured in..".

"What is Country of Origin?
In the import process, country of origin meaning refers to the destination from which the goods are being imported or simply the country of manufacture, production, or growth where the goods comes from."

You raise the issue of a knife designed in the US, manufactured in a foreign country, shipped back to the US and the scales put on. In that case, it is still not Made in UISA because;

"According to the Federal Trade Commission, “Made in USA” means that “all or virtually all” the product has been made in America."

www.ftc.gov

Made in USA

www.ftc.gov www.ftc.gov

From what I can gather, parts of a process are not counted no matter where they are done. The COO designatin applies to the finished product.
 
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^ Excellent post, I was reading the same; ONLY negligible parts can be sourced from outside of the USA for it to still be considered.

In the case of knives, I would assume that to be hardware - which many US makers are transparent about their sourcing.

"All or virtually all" means that all significant parts and processing that go into the product must be of U.S. origin. That is, the product should contain no — or negligible — foreign content."

Another link - https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/complying-made-usa-standard
 
here's what they're doing in hvac equipment nowadays...

5 brands. some try to hide it so its not as obvious .....
20231108_103056.jpg
some dont seem to care....
20231108_102524.jpg
20231108_104002.jpg
some play a heavy marketing game.....
20231108_102459.jpg

some almost hide their made in america...
20231108_104123.jpg
 
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It does get complicated. Even solid US based companies that would be considered "US made" such as Case, may in fact have to source certain cover materials from sources outside the US (maybe certain types of bone or certain types of wood for example) I can imagine it is hard to label products without intentionally misleading people or getting yourself in legal trouble. I tend to not stress about country of origin too much. I do tend to seek out US made products when I can, but I am not going to obsess over every screw and component. I think it would be near impossible to audit manufacturers to this level of detail.
 
I think we've taken this discussion to its logical conclusion.

There is the law...and there is what is permissible within the law...and then there are those for whom massaging the facts to give a, perhaps less than straightforward perspective, is what they seek.

Buyer beware, as in all things. Do your homework...if you care.
 
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