CPK EDC2

fonedork said:
My wife and kid both got flu shots this year, both got the flu. I think the shot carries a decent chance of giving you a flu that won’t kill you, in exchange for inoculating against a real villainous flu that might. I didn’t get shot nor flu.
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From the CDC’s website, the vaccine is effective 40-60% on a good year. Basically, it’s a coin flip. Lol!
 
I have a slightly different take on societal responsibilities toward others. Here is a quote from someone who, exactly like I did, participated in the first experimental trials of the polio vaccine, which included several shots and boosters during 1954 and 1955:

"I am a Polio Pioneer. I believe my entire third grade class at Boyd Elementary in Eau Claire, Wisconsin, was invited to participate. Dad still has my card and maybe the pin. I think my mother, who was very afraid of the possibility of getting polio, was not unlike other mothers at that time. My family welcomed my chance to participate and considered me a hero. I didn't appreciate the importance at the time, but realized it as time passed and Mother continued to talk about it with pride."

For me, taking the flu shot is a question of selflessness, rather than selfishness.

Please don't take offense, but IMHO it is irresponsible to avoid the shot unless you are willing to wear a mask throughout the flu season (yes, I know, kinda severe attitude, sorry, lol). Just the other side of the point of view. Back then, everyone was afraid that it would cause their child and themselves to catch polio, but instead it caused a dreaded disease to be virtually wiped out in America.

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betzner said:
I have a slightly different take on societal responsibilities toward others. Here is a quote from someone who, exactly like I did, participated in the first experimental trials of the polio vaccine, which included several shots and boosters during 1954 and 1955:

"I am a Polio Pioneer. I believe my entire third grade class at Boyd Elementary in Eau Claire, Wisconsin, was invited to participate. Dad still has my card and maybe the pin. I think my mother, who was very afraid of the possibility of getting polio, was not unlike other mothers at that time. My family welcomed my chance to participate and considered me a hero. I didn't appreciate the importance at the time, but realized it as time passed and Mother continued to talk about it with pride."

For me, taking the flu shot is a question of selflessness, rather than selfishness.

Please don't take offense, but IMHO it is irresponsible to avoid the shot unless you are willing to wear a mask throughout the flu season (yes, I know, kinda severe attitude, sorry, lol). Just the other side of the point of view. Back then, everyone was afraid that it would cause their child and themselves to catch polio, but instead it caused a dreaded disease to be virtually wiped out in America.

medium800.jpg
Click to expand...

Taking a vaccine, such as the polio vaccine, that will pretty much eliminate and prevent a disease is something I definitely believe in and participate in. As stated above, the only vaccine I don’t take, nor do I give my children, is the flu vaccine. You can have your opinion on the matter just as I do, but calling someone irresponsible for refusing to inject themselves with chemicals that “might” help you avoid getting the flu (see CDC website for how ineffective it actually is) is a bit of a stretch.

BTW, I didn’t take offense, just defending MY stance and not speaking for others. I’ve been a nurse for 10 years (have researched the flu vaccine extensively), a mom for 19, and a responsible, selfless person for most of my life. ;)
 
Thanks for your manner of return comment. We all have the right to believe and act accordingly. I just wanted to put a bit of oompf into my commentary, kind of as a thought provoker. But as all this relates to the flu virus, we never know what will be the next great killer of man. And flu being a virus and transmitted exactly along the same pathways as polio, my real argument is more toward the need to give greater study, as done with HIV, toward the manner in which the flu mutates, the receptors, etc - so it can be knocked out.

Thanks for your comments.
 
betzner said:
I have a slightly different take on societal responsibilities toward others. Here is a quote from someone who, exactly like I did, participated in the first experimental trials of the polio vaccine, which included several shots and boosters during 1954 and 1955:

"I am a Polio Pioneer. I believe my entire third grade class at Boyd Elementary in Eau Claire, Wisconsin, was invited to participate. Dad still has my card and maybe the pin. I think my mother, who was very afraid of the possibility of getting polio, was not unlike other mothers at that time. My family welcomed my chance to participate and considered me a hero. I didn't appreciate the importance at the time, but realized it as time passed and Mother continued to talk about it with pride."

For me, taking the flu shot is a question of selflessness, rather than selfishness.

Please don't take offense, but IMHO it is irresponsible to avoid the shot unless you are willing to wear a mask throughout the flu season (yes, I know, kinda severe attitude, sorry, lol). Just the other side of the point of view. Back then, everyone was afraid that it would cause their child and themselves to catch polio, but instead it caused a dreaded disease to be virtually wiped out in America.

medium800.jpg
Click to expand...

Slightly off topic, but I live in Eau Claire!

Boyd elementary is now an apartment building.
 
Perhaps off topic, but what a co-incidence. I was looking for a particular quote online and this one worked for the purpose intended, with my having no knowledge of the writer. But the message was the same. And even funnier, my own elementary school was turned into an office building.
 
fonedork said:
My wife and kid both got flu shots this year, both got the flu. I think the shot carries a decent chance of giving you a flu that won’t kill you, in exchange for inoculating against a real villainous flu that might. I didn’t get shot nor flu.
Click to expand...
Anyone who still thinks this, is wilfully keeping themselves in the dark.

The flu shot is made using inactivated virus. It CAN'T give you the flu. Think of the flu shot as dragging the dead bodies of enemy soldiers onto your shores, to trick your body into mobilising its defenses because it thinks you're under attack. No, it's not the zombie apocalypse. The dead bodies/virus can't multiply and cause the flu.

The problem is, most folks who don't typically vaccinate, don't do it on a schedule (as opposed to regular vaxxers, who typically get their shots before the flu season). They tend to vaccinate AFTER they're exposed, or when they're feeling just a little 'off' (but before symptoms worsen enough to be 100% sure that they ARE sick), which makes them think about getting the flu shot.

THAT'S why people say, "I usually never got the flu shot. I got it this time and it gave me the flu". No it didn't.

It's not a magic amulet that wards off evil the moment you put it on. It takes about 2 weeks to build up the maximum level of antibodies for protection.

The nasal spray on the other hand, is made using attenuated live virus. This CAN in fact, give you a mild version of the flu, as the virus is live, but weakened. The CDC recommended NOT getting the nasal spray this season.

The flu shot CAN in some cases, produce mild symptoms as the body's immune system reacts to what it thinks is an attack. This immune response varies by person (much like seasonal allergies affect some more than others), but it's nowhere near actually getting the flu.

Knowledge is power.

Things anti vaxxers love to spout:

- the flu vaccine cocktail is wrong most of the time anyway.

- Wrong. The CDC monitors the Southern hemisphere for prevalent flu strains in their flu season (our summer), as well as monitoring any virulent strains worldwide.

The vaccines this year consisted of
# Type A H1N1 pm09 (the 'swine flu' mutation from 2009, that's circulated to some %, every season in North America since 09. This season, responsible for about 10% of the hospitalizations).

# Type A H3N2 (THIS is the bug that's caused 80% of the hospitalizations this season).

# Type B/Brisbane/Victoria lineage

and the Quadrivalent vaccine adds

# Type B/Phuket/Yamagata lineage (about 6% of the hospitalizations in the US. In the UK, where this season, clinics and doctors were advised to order the cheaper trivalent vaccine vs the quadrivalent vaccine, about 50% of their hospitalizations are due to this Type B virus. If they'd ordered and given out the quad shots, it would have drastically cut their flu-related hospitalizations).


Now another thing to consider, is that the VE (Vaccine Effectiveness) varies depending on the strain. VE is pretty high for Type B viruses, that only occasionally experience small mutations (called antigenic drift).

Type A viruses can both experience antigenic drift, OR antigenic shift (a significant change, that makes it different enough that most folks immune system can't recognize it, and therefore, don't react adequately to it).

Type A H1N1 pm09 is an example of a Type A virus that saw a significant jump in 2009.

The 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic is an example of just how bad it can get (estimated 1 in 3 - 5 people on the planet infected, as many as 1 out of every 20 or 30 people on the planet died).

The Spanish Flu H1N1 was an antigenic shift variant that meant few people had immunity, and after digging up the body of a victim of it (buried in permafrost), they cultured this H1N1 variant, and confirmed that it produced a cytokine storm in the monkeys they infected.

VE for H1N1 pm09 is also pretty high.

The problem with H3N2 (what's been hitting the US hard this season, and Australia before that), is that this strain is more sensitive to variances between the circulating virus, and the CVV (Candidate Vaccine Virus). The viruses for the vaccine cocktail are usually bred in eggs. This produces an egg-adapted mutation. For some reason this negatively affects the VE against H3N2, more than it does other strains.

For this reason, in 08/16, the FDA approved a cell-based CVV for the US for the first time (went into production 2017). The cell-based CVV is bred in mammalian cells instead of eggs, to eliminate the egg-adaptation, and this season, it's only been used for the Type A H3N2 (Flucelvax). The other CVV strains in the cocktail are still egg-bred.

As far as things like Guillain-Barre, you can get that from an infection or from getting sick due to numerous pathogens.

Using that as a deterrent ranks right up there with, "I don't wear a seatbelt, because a friend of a friend of a friend, got into an accident, and they weren't wearing theirs, and ended up being thrown from the wreck. If they'd had their seatbelt on, they'd have been KILLED!".

Neither vaccines, nor the safety devices in modern vehicles, like seatbelts, crumple zones, airbags, antilock brakes, traction control etc., are going to guarantee your safety (or even survival, in extreme cases), but each layer of protection improves your statistical chances.
 
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bluemax_1 said:
Anyone who still thinks this, is wilfully keeping themselves in the dark.

The flu shot is made using inactivated virus. It CAN'T give you the flu. Think of the flu shot as dragging the dead bodies of enemy soldiers onto your shores, to trick your body into mobilising its defenses because it thinks you're under attack. No, it's not the zombie apocalypse. The dead bodies/virus can't multiply and cause the flu.

The problem is, most folks who don't typically vaccinate, don't do it on a schedule (as opposed to regular vaxxers, who typically get their shots before the flu season). They tend to vaccinate AFTER they're exposed, or when they're feeling just a little 'off' (but before symptoms worsen enough to be 100% sure that they ARE sick), which makes them think about getting the flu shot.

THAT'S why people say, "I usually never got the flu shot. I got it this time and it gave me the flu". No it didn't.

It's not a magic amulet that wards off evil the moment you put it on. It takes about 2 weeks to build up the maximum level of antibodies for protection.

The nasal spray on the other hand, is made using attenuated live virus. This CAN in fact, give you a mild version of the flu, as the virus is live, but weakened. The CDC recommended NOT getting the nasal spray this season.

The flu shot CAN in some cases, produce mild symptoms as the body's immune system reacts to what it thinks is an attack. This immune response varies by person (much like seasonal allergies affect some more than others), but it's nowhere near actually getting the flu.

Knowledge is power.

Things anti vaxxers love to spout:

- the flu vaccine cocktail is wrong most of the time anyway.

- Wrong. The CDC monitors the Southern hemisphere for prevalent flu strains in their flu season (our summer), as well as monitoring any virulent strains worldwide.

The vaccines this year consisted of
# Type A H1N1 pm09 (the 'swine flu' mutation from 2009, that's circulated to some %, every season in North America since 09. This season, responsible for about 10% of the hospitalizations).

# Type A H3N2 (THIS is the bug that's caused 80% of the hospitalizations this season).

# Type B/Brisbane/Victoria lineage

and the Quadrivalent vaccine adds

# Type B/Phuket/Yamagata lineage (about 6% of the hospitalizations in the US. In the UK, where this season, clinics and doctors were advised to order the cheaper trivalent vaccine vs the quadrivalent vaccine, about 50% of their hospitalizations are due to this Type B virus. If they'd ordered and given out the quad shots, it would have drastically cut their flu-related hospitalizations).


Now another thing to consider, is that the VE (Vaccine Effectiveness) varies depending on the strain. VE is pretty high for Type B viruses, that only occasionally experience small mutations (called antigenic drift).

Type A viruses can both experience antigenic drift, OR antigenic shift (a significant change, that makes it different enough that most folks immune system can't recognize it, and therefore, don't react adequately to it).

Type A H1N1 pm09 is an example of a Type A virus that saw a significant jump in 2009.

The 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic is an example of just how bad it can get (estimated 1 in 3 - 5 people on the planet infected, as many as 1 out of every 20 or 30 people on the planet died).

The Spanish Flu H1N1 was an antigenic shift variant that meant few people had immunity, and after digging up the body of a victim of it (buried in permafrost), they cultured this H1N1 variant, and confirmed that it produced a cytokine storm in the monkeys they infected.

VE for H1N1 pm09 is also pretty high.

The problem with H3N2 (what's been hitting the US hard this season, and Australia before that), is that this strain is more sensitive to variances between the circulating virus, and the CVV (Candidate Vaccine Virus). The viruses for the vaccine cocktail are usually bred in eggs. This produces an egg-adapted mutation. For some reason this negatively affects the VE against H3N2, more than it does other strains.

For this reason, in 08/16, the FDA approved a cell-based CVV for the US for the first time (went into production 2017). The cell-based CVV is bred in mammalian cells instead of eggs, to eliminate the egg-adaptation, and this season, it's only been used for the Type A H3N2 (Flucelvax). The other CVV strains in the cocktail are still egg-bred.

As far as things like Guillain-Barre, you can get that from an infection or from getting sick due to numerous pathogens.

Using that as a deterrent ranks right up there with, "I don't wear a seatbelt, because a friend of a friend of a friend, got into an accident, and they weren't wearing theirs, and ended up being thrown from the wreck. If they'd had their seatbelt on, they'd have been KILLED!".

Neither vaccines, nor the safety devices in modern vehicles, like seatbelts, crumple zones, airbags, antilock brakes, traction control etc., are going to guarantee your safety (or even survival, in extreme cases), but each layer of protection improves your statistical chances.
Click to expand...

Hate to wade into this, but I do want to add that Herd Immunity is a thing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity
 
betzner said:
Ditto, and I see that Mat has now become the Mister Master of Road Staightening, so that we don't have a wreck as we go off-road with our thought vehicles, lol.
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You better be quite careful there young fella, because I have given myself the absolute "authoritha" of handing out totally worthless tickets too :p
 
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