CPM 10V Steel

H

hayhugh

Joined
Dec 25, 2006
Messages
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I would like to buy an assist folder with a CPM 10V Steel blade. While checking out my new Camillus Heat knife, I found out that its blade is not made with the best materal around - AUS-8. It seems that the materal that holds up and is easest to resharpen is CPM 10V Steel. Any ideas?
 
ok fwiw, most high grade steels are only available in customs, only a few are available in production knives, this is beacuse of complicated hardening procedures, they only come in round stock, requires hot hot hardening temps etc. all this cost alot and if you´re willing to pay extra you can have all this (but sometimes not all the nice hss, since they often require higher hardening temps than most "knifemaking-ovens" can produce) , but you often have to pay alot more then you expect if possible at all.
 
Wouldn't 9V be the better blade steel due to it's greater toughness? Either way ( or 15V, or T1, etc.) they aren't going to be as easy as 8A to get sharp. Not many custom makers even use these steels, though there are a few. Joe
 
From what I have read, 3V is a great steel to use. I had alot of luck with D2 and ordered a blade for my folder in M2. These three steels came highly recommended by a few makers I was in contact with.

MPE
 
10V is good for small slicers, as is M2. Make sure the maker takes the edge thickness down to around 0.010" for ease of sharpening and performance.
 
Hayhugh, 10V is pretty much in the realm of a speciality steel. I have been using it for 15 years or so and recommend it for applications where sharpening in the field is inconvienent and the user wants a knife that will hold an edge a long time on abrasive materials like elk hide, hair and pig bristles. 10V is not stainless and takes more care than say 30V or CPM 154 or VG10. The knives I make from 10V are flat ground to a thin edge +/- 0.010 behind the edge. This makes for easy sharpening with a silicon carbide or diamond stone. The edge holding on 10v is due to the higher hardness 62-64 and the large percentage of vanadium carbides. Think of 10V as sort of a super charged A2. 10V is hard to work with for custom makers, hard to finish, grind and takes a very high temp to heat treat. As a result you will not find any factory knives with this steel as far as I know and only a few custom guys feel that it is worth the trouble and extra expense. As far as toughness, at the high end hardness and a thin blade it does take some care and does not lend itself to prying or forcefull working around bones or chopping. On the other hand the bending strength and edge strength is high enough for a slicer on tough materials. I have made a few fillet knives out of 10V for my own uses and have had no issues with them other than they will rust in salt water while you are looking at them.. Phil
 
hayhugh said:
Keith, Hayhugh, what is it about 10V that you think makes it is such a superior knife steel?

I found this online and it tell all...

http://www.cutleryscience.com/reviews/edge_testing_II.html
Click to expand...

Hayhugh, I looked at Cliff's testing. Cliff didn't say it was easy to sharpen. He said that after the cutting tests, the blade was not much dulled and did not require much sharpening. Not the same thing as "easy to sharpen". His testing indicated the best edge retension but he did not test toughness, ease of sharpening, or anything else.

So is edge retension the only property you are looking for?

Phil Wilson's comments are worth studying.
 
knarfeng, I am very happy with my Camillus Heat and thought that edge retension would be a good thing in an EDC. hayhugh
 
asi said:
Looking forward to get my knife from Phil Wilson! :D
Click to expand...

You will have to completely re-set your expectations in edge holding if you ordered something from Phil in 10V. When I got mine from Phil (Coyote Meadow in 10V), I experienced a "paradigm shift". What I used to think was excellent edge holding is now, well, not very impressive. It takes a while to get used to, and completely re-sets your baseline, if that makes any sense... But it's definitely a **good** thing!

Get your wrist supports from your favorite pharmacy now to prevent carpal tunnel syndrome. You're gonna need them! :D
 
Excellent edge retention is a very good thing, but depending on what the knife will be used for there can often be more important features, such as corrosion resistance, ease of sharpening, toughness, etc. 10V is an excellent steel when it is used by a maker that knows the steel inside out. Phil would be one of the only makers that I would trust to make me a knife out of it. It is unlikely that you will ever find a production company willing to work with this steel, so be prepared to pay what a custom maker charges if you want a knife make from it.
 
hayhugh said:
While checking out my new Camillus Heat knife, I found out that its blade is not made with the best materal around - AUS-8.

knarfeng, I am very happy with my Camillus Heat and thought that edge retension would be a good thing in an EDC. hayhugh
Click to expand...

Edge retension is a good thing in an EDC but edge retension comes at a cost in other properties, as Keith Montgomery pointed out.

Every steel is a compromise of properties. Some of them are trade-offs for one another. Toughness and edge retension are one set of trade-offs. If you increase one, it is somewhat at the expense of the other. And it's not just one pair of properties, it's a whole mix. That's why there is no one steel that is best for all purposes.

For an EDC, one normally wants a combination of steel properties, these are typically some mix of edge retension, corrosion resistance, toughness, ease of sharpening. The exact mix of properties that is best in an EDC is going to vary with the individual and his usage of his EDC.

CPM 10V provides extreme edge retension, but as these knowledgeable folks have pointed out, at the cost of corrosion resistance, toughness, and ease of sharpening, not to mention cost. It would never work for me as an EDC. YMMV. I don't mind AUS8 for an EDC. It has what for me is a reasonable combination of properties, though I might prefer a tad more edge retension and look for VG10 or ATS34 / 154CM. Again YMMV.

Regards,
knarf eng
 
What are you doing that needs every last bit of edge retention? S30V will be fine for the 99% of activities out there
 
HayHugh take look at crucible site and think about all the qualities that you may need. http://www.crucibleservice.com/index.cfm
10v has very good wear qualities but is mediocre in the toughness area. My personel favorite is CPM3V, it has in my oppinion the best mix of qualities that I desire. Because of its toughness I can harden it at 62 rc and still not have to worry about micro chipping, even at 24 deg. included angle. It holds an edge much better than S30 at the same rc and is three times as tough. So far I have never had it rust or stain even though it only has about 7 % chrome. It also will finish better than S30. I find any of these steels are easy to sharpen with DMT diamond hones. I have not used stones for several years now, they are just to slow and are almost useless on these steels when above about 60 rc.

Leon
 
I have one of Phils 10V blades and it is phenomenal! I use a diamond steel to maintain it and it is good as gold. Haven't let it get dull so I can't speak to resharpening it. However, Phil thins his blades considerably more than any other blade I've owned. Razor sharpness takes on a new significance with his blades.

Corrosion resistance isn't an issue here in Colorado.

I have many blades in S30V, M2, VG10, SGPS, etc. If you want better than average edge holding then 10V is the real deal. This is not an edge you want for utility and hard use blades but is great for finesse use like meat cutting (which is what I use it for ... big game hunting etc.).

Just my $.02.

NJ
 
Some more commentary:

"10V is a very specialized custom knife blade steel. It's never going to compete
with the ATS34/154 CM group of work horse steels because of the lack of
corrosion resistance and finish difficulties. A very few custom makers will use it
for performance reasons only and it does not appear to be economically feasible
for use on a factory blade. This is a steel for an avid hunter or guide who wants
a blade for field dressing, skinning and boning, that cuts and holds an edge
above everything else."

I would be interested in what Spyderco says about this steel and why they chose it for the Farid K2.
 
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