CRKT 2020 models - 1.4116/8cr obsessions

[insta9ves]

Just saw the latest 2020 folding knives from CRKT at Knifecenter here. It’s ridiculous how many of them are using 1.4116/8cr steel, including all of the deadbolt lock models.
Budget steel is fine, especially when used in budget knives, e.g. Cold Steel use them for their $22 prolite models. But many of the new CRKT 1.4116/8cr models are >$100.
The other noticeable trends are their use of plastic handles, even on the more expensive models.
Really wonder if they are out of touch with the market, or if many people are willing to spend $100 for plastic handle 1.4116 steel knife. For perspective, a Cold steel Lawman or ultimate hunter with S35VN and G10 can be found for $70-90.

 

[rxavage]

And they went to map. These knife companies are going to find out in the next few years that they shot themselves in the foot.

 

[tltt]

They sell. The average person looking at CRKT doesn't care about the latest steel. If it holds an edge for a while, doesn't rust, and sharpens up easily most common knife buyers are happy. Also a lot of the CRKT buyers like the looks and that you can get unique locking systems p or designs somewhat cheaply.

Also CRKT is in a "Damn if you do, damned if you don't" position. Lots of people turn their nose up at them for using budget steels, etc.... But at the same time, how many people would rush out and buy one if they swapped to wondersteel? They've sort of locked themselves in the budget category, and once a company is there, it seldom gets out.

 

[lieferung]

That Lucas Burnley Tuna looks like a straight up ripoff of a Medford.

 

[dirc]

crkt is what i like to call the jerry springer of knives - lowest common denominator - they continue to sell cuz there are just that many people willing to waste time watching springer reruns as there are people who just buy a knife on aesthetics alone

they kinda have themselves positioned as the brand to get when a regular mtech life customer wants to spend more & 'upgrade'?

or maybe xmas 'cheer' is just messing with my brain, but thats how i'd sum it up

 

[Shorttime]

crkt is what i like to call the jerry springer of knives - lowest common denominator - they continue to sell cuz there are just that many people willing to waste time watching springer reruns as there are people who just buy a knife on aesthetics alone

they kinda have themselves positioned as the brand to get when a regular mtech life customer wants to spend more & 'upgrade'?

or maybe xmas 'cheer' is just messing with my brain, but thats how i'd sum it up

You got it right, for me, at least. CRKT was my first experience with "good" knives, after buying Mtech flea-market specials. I didn't have access to the Internet, so my choices were limited.

I look at CRKT as kind of what Kia used to be to the car market. Or the Volkswagen Beetle, if we go back further: entry-level, good enough.

My Batum is also one of my favorite knives, and I have a couple different flavors of Ripple that get rotated regularly. They have some good ones.

 

[jeffsenpai]

To be honest, I buy the design, not the steel. Maybe I am an outlier, but I carry knives, buy knives, but rarely use knives.

I would prefer fit and finish and the action be perfection anyday before upgrading the blade steel to something I would not notice.

CRKT gets so much hate from the high end community, and I get it, I really do.

I hate to sound like a fanboy for any brand, but then I look around and realize that I own ~20ish CRKTs. In my experience, they have more hits than misses.

 

[Biochemdawg]

CRKT knows their market and am not a bit surprised by the choice of materials they use. Some of those models looked cool, I was partial to the Chahalem upon first sight. Probably gonna snag that some point! Thanks for the link

 

[stonproject]

CRKT has some cool designs. But generally speaking they're not a great bang for buck. In my experience though their higher priced stuff has really solid fit and finish, but as another poster said you're more paying for the designs with CRKT. I am partial to their Williams designs.

 

[Wunderbar]

Not to speak ill of CRKT but the OP is right. Crazy high price for the same steel found in my kitchen. Kershaw is just going to kill them this coming year with sales.(Being a major competitor.) And to think, the founders of CRKT left Kershaw to start CRKT. I personally rate my knife steel by carbon content ( not interested in much below .75% carbon). Krupp steel for the kitchen not my EDC. That being said, I like the dagger folder thats coming with the 8Cr13Mov steel.

 

[Chronovore]

So I finally looked at the page. I clicked on a couple of designs that looked interesting. Both were 8Cr14Mov, with one costing $40-something and the other $50-something. I've had trouble justifying Kershaws that use 8Cr13Mov in the $30 range. These... well, I'll just never buy one. There are too many great budget knives with better steels like 14C28N, 9Cr18Mov, or D2 at those prices.

Sadly, it's likely to continue. The same thing protecting Kershaw's use of 8Cr13Mov could keep stuff like this in the market. Lots of these will be sold in brick and mortar where better budget choices like Civivi and Bestech don't have a presence. There are lots of customers who neither know nor care about the steel. Some of them might not use their knives much. Some people will actually be fooled into thinking a $40 or $50 knife is quality just because it costs more.

 

[Quiet]

What a bunch of unfortunate looking trash. Amazing how badly they screwed up, really.

I haven't purchased a CRKT in so many years, I think an X-Ray was the last one....way back when those came out.

Even the ad-copy is hilarious garbage:

"https://www.knifecenter.com/item/CR...nt-blade-black-grn-handles-with-paracord-wrap"

"From his bench in Boise, Idaho, TJ Schwarz set out to marry the Deadbolt lock innovation and a highly utilitarian outdoor/survivalist knife. The Parascale delivers in spades with a 3.2" drop point"

LOL Because that's what I think of when I think of "highly utilitarian outdoors/survivalist knife": a 3 inch D2 bladed folding* knife that I got charged $130(!!!) for.

That entire lineup is a hard pass for me.



*I mean, the fail starts here honestly.

 

[marrenmiller]

To be honest, I buy the design, not the steel. Maybe I am an outlier, but I carry knives, buy knives, but rarely use knives.

I would prefer fit and finish and the action be perfection anyday before upgrading the blade steel to something I would not notice.

I won't lie to you; I think (hope?) you are an outlier here. I can't imagine being fine with any knife with shoddy steel and heat treatment just because it flips nicely or because the fitment between parts is how it's supposed to be.

 

[cbrstar]

I kinda think there has been a slight shift in the knife world.
It used to be (Insert custom knife maker here) and charge a huge premium for the design. Spyderco and many other companies did it, including CRKT. But I think it's become oversaturated and people don't care as much as they used to about the designer. But more so about the quality of the materials and fit & finish.
Crkt you're paying for the designers name.

 

[Quiet]

I kinda think there has been a slight shift in the knife world.
It used to be (Insert custom knife maker here) and charge a huge premium for the design. Spyderco and many other companies did it, including CRKT. But I think it's become oversaturated and people don't care as much as they used to about the designer. But more so about the quality of the materials and fit & finish.
Crkt you're paying for the designers name.

Yep. I'll confess this. I looked at one of the new designs and actually like it. But the problem is that it's one of the cheapest models, at $50 with 8cr, and so I looked up the maker's name and see that it's one of his custom designs. Those cost several hundred to a couple thousand dollars, which look to be worth it. I totally get, and am on board with, makers wanting to get their designs into more peoples' hands by working with large knife manufacturers to get them onto a wider market. However, to go from a top shelf custom made of top shelf materials, to putting your name on something that's like, a half-step from being a trash gas station knife just seems like a bad decision to me. A guy who spends $50 on your knife design prooooobably isn't going to swing the (again) $800-$2,000 to get "the real thing".

I don't like or buy Chinese knives*, but I'm going to say, Reate/We/Kizer...you know what, at least you get one of their knives, and it's already a very high-end knife in fit, finish, AND materials. M390, S35vn, XHP, etc. and again, Ti, carbon fiber, annodization, all the bells and whistles, all for between $150-$500 or so. So, it's not a stretch for someone who might pay $400-$600 for say, one of Todd Begg's Steelcraft knives, so get one and love it so much that they want the real thing, and save up the few hundred extra bucks to get their hands on a (perhaps lower end, sure) full-on Begg custom. That's not a stretch.

But watering your brand down so someone can buy a $50 inferior, poorly done version made of 7-11 register display materials...just don't get it.



*Save the rebuttal, and actually see the point I'm making

 

[glwanabe]

I've got a squib, and I like it. Paid 24 bucks at Academy. It has done everything I needed it to. I would not expect it to be able to defeat a Sith Lord, nor would I want it to be my only knife if deep in the woods. It rides quietly with me at work, and doesn't scare people.
It doesn't conjure up weapon in the minds eye when you see it.

My Wife like my Mossback hunter, cause it fits her hand well. If she breaks it, no big loss. No problems with either so far.
However, I also wouldn't spend serious money for the designs.
I've got other tools for other task and chores.

 

[Wunderbar]

I don't like or buy Chinese knives*

Same here. Bought 2 in my life but got rid of them. Growing up as a kid, all the old timers would carry U.S. Made
Knives so there is just something nostalgic about an American blade. I find china knives to be missing a certain feeling about them almost as if an American knives were put together with creativity and china knives are an afterthought. The china knives feel "soul-less" to me.

 

[cbrstar]

Yep. I'll confess this. I looked at one of the new designs and actually like it. But the problem is that it's one of the cheapest models, at $50 with 8cr, and so I looked up the maker's name and see that it's one of his custom designs. Those cost several hundred to a couple thousand dollars, which look to be worth it. I totally get, and am on board with, makers wanting to get their designs into more peoples' hands by working with large knife manufacturers to get them onto a wider market. However, to go from a top shelf custom made of top shelf materials, to putting your name on something that's like, a half-step from being a trash gas station knife just seems like a bad decision to me. A guy who spends $50 on your knife design prooooobably isn't going to swing the (again) $800-$2,000 to get "the real thing".

I don't like or buy Chinese knives*, but I'm going to say, Reate/We/Kizer...you know what, at least you get one of their knives, and it's already a very high-end knife in fit, finish, AND materials. M390, S35vn, XHP, etc. and again, Ti, carbon fiber, annodization, all the bells and whistles, all for between $150-$500 or so. So, it's not a stretch for someone who might pay $400-$600 for say, one of Todd Begg's Steelcraft knives, so get one and love it so much that they want the real thing, and save up the few hundred extra bucks to get their hands on a (perhaps lower end, sure) full-on Begg custom. That's not a stretch.

But watering your brand down so someone can buy a $50 inferior, poorly done version made of 7-11 register display materials...just don't get it.



*Save the rebuttal, and actually see the point I'm making

I completely agree with you, as designer crap is still crap. I'm glad Cris Reeve had enough sense to say no to CRKT and the 6513 Sebenza!

Imagine a Sebenza with a plastic handle and Aus6 steel? CRKT didn't even try to simply make a cheaper more accessible Sebenza, they instead went straight to the bottom. I can't help but think a knife this bad could possibly ruin a custom knife makers reputation. I also sometimes wonder if they do it on purpose.

 

[Chronovore]

Same here. Bought 2 in my life but got rid of them. Growing up as a kid, all the old timers would carry U.S. Made Knives so there is just something nostalgic about an American blade. I find china knives to be missing a certain feeling about them almost as if an American knives were put together with creativity and china knives are an afterthought. The china knives feel "soul-less" to me.

That was a long time ago. American industry has changed. A lot of that change has been caused by government's effect on the economy, under both parties. Big companies like CRKT, Kershaw, Gerber, Schrade, etc. have been using Chinese manufacturers to make lots of their knives for a very long time. Over the years, many of those Chinese companies and workers have learned quite a bit. Now we are seeing them launching their own lines.

It's easy to knock the junk end of the spectrum. It's junk, and a lot of that junk is still being made for the American brands. However, there is so much more happening in the world of Chinese knives right now. Is anyone here old enough to remember when "Made in Japan" meant junk? We've been seeing the same type of transition here. Companies like Bestech, Kizer, and WE are making some fantastic knives. On the budget end, we are seeing some real innovation from brands like Civivi, Tangram, and Ruike; with better materials and better prices than these new knives from CRKT.

Let's think of it another way. How many of the complaints here have to do with stagnant standards on the part of CRKT and similar companies? The thread title addresses the use of arguably outdated steels at sadly high prices. I mentioned that this trend has a lot to do with these companies having a lock on the brick and mortar market via Walmart, etc. The answer to this stagnation within this spectrum of the market is coming from those Chinese companies. It's just a matter of shopping online. For anyone who hasn't tried, I recommend it. Don't condemn the $50 Chinese knives until you've tried a Civivi or a Bestech.

 

[Wunderbar]

Tried them. Been collecting knives since the 70's. Never said they were junk. My favorites are Steel Will, Kizer and Spyderco models like the Tenacious. Not too long ago (1990's), knives were 100% U.S. made coming from companies like Gerber and Schrade. Nothing wrong with the modern china knives, I just don't buy them.
Staying on topic though, you can easily compare CRKT knives with the 1.4116 to other brands with that same steel and you'll see a big difference in price. I looked at a Microtech LUDT with 420HC back in 2006 for $130. Same price as my 2004 LUDT in S30V.
The Microtech rep said their 420 was as good as 154CM. I bought it and tested it. Total crap.




The MT rep said it was as good as 154CM steel. He was wrong. I personally dont like companies trying to con people into buying their "over priced" products.