Crosscut Saw Thread

I'm a big fan of bucking with "shortened" western saws. A 7-foot saws cut down to 5 feet makes a serious single bucker. These were usually saws that were damaged and shortened back in the day. I just added a D-handle and filed it up. They show up regularly on Ebay. The one in the pic is a Simonds 520, very stiff and can take a good push.


That is one mean, beautiful saw and you have just turned me on to looking for a damaged treasure to shorten as well.
Now that you have shown me a great example, reminding and enlightening me...I think I know of a western saw fairly local that may be a candidate, however I will need to check it out to see if it's damaged and usable shortened or is it heavily rusted and pited.

Thank you Trailtime.
 
i dont see those enough or find any with broken teeth enough to justify doin that, but i'd like to. how do you drill the holes for the handle?

I don't remember but I know Warren Miller reviews and exemplifies how to shorten a damaged saw and I think he drilled for the D handle but I would have to look back in the video.

I'm fortunate that there are still plenty of saws here in the northwest. I think I'm up to 7 saws now, 36", 48", 54", 60", 66", 72", and 90". The 72" and 90" both await sharpening and the 54" is in the process. I can afford to be choosy up here.

That sounds like a stable and I for one appreciate that you have some choices.
Not many western show up here in CT but there are a few every now and then.
I have two 60" felling, two 36", and the one 48". All in need of varying attention.
I will eventually find the time to finish the 36" Plain Tooth I have jointed and then I am thinking to start cleaning the 48"Disston plain tooth. Or I will get right into the 36"Keystone champion tooth.
Decisions...:cool::)
It's only time ;)
We all have plenty of that right?:D:eek:
 
After a lot of trial and error, I settled on a "non-traditional" way to make my holes in those notoriously hard saw plates. I drill my hole placements in the D-handle once I have it profiled and slotted, put the handle exactly where I want it on the saw blade, and mark the hole locations with a sharpie. Then, I chuck a chainsaw sharpening stone into my Dremel tool and grind out the holes until I get enough metal worn away to drive a hardened nail into the thinned metal. Once my hole is big enough, I insert a chainsaw file and finish the hole. Quite a kluge, and you have to go easy on the little grinding stone, but it gets the job done.

I gave up trying to drill handle holes after ruining too many bits. I know a guy who uses a BIG punch, but it will occasionally shatter the blade ends. Warren Miller made a hole punching guide and demos it on one of his videos. I tried his method without success. Those big western bucking saws have THICK plates.
 
One thing I like about a chopped one man saws is that they already have holes for full size handles on the toe. All factory one man saws have the auxiliary handle hole too far back on the blade. If you're going to double buck with a big one man saw, you really need a full size handle (western handle with finger guard preferred).

I've made up about a dozen or so saws like this for trail friends but certainly not my idea. Historically they were used to top spar trees for high lead logging. Here are couple more:





 
Trailtime.

That's it, Mr Miller had the hole punch guide.
I would have to try my hand at drilling but your method sounds like you have more control.
I definetly would use the D as the template and the chainsaw file to finish seems to be a natural part of the process. Getting thru the plate, I don't have a dremel, will be the challenge.

Thanks for the heads up if and when I find the right candidate.

Off now to hit the yard, taking my Legitimus to split some seasoned rounds. Then investigate what critter was in my attic last night.
The temps here have been hovering in the single digits most nights, just warming into the teens during the days...today we should hit a balmy 25°F for the high at noon.
FWIW...The harsher the elements the more I want to work and play outside.

-Miller
 
Cobalt bits, well lubricated, will drill a saw plate. Start small and work up. I've drilled several. Helps if you have a drill sharpener, you'll need it after you finish.

Excellent. Thank you.
I was just at the hardware store this morning looking at a cobalt vari bit thinking, wondering if that would do the trick. Draw back is control when using a hand drill...sometimes those vari bits are perfect for the job, till you lose focus or it bites and then your hole is to big.
 
If you're talking about a step bit like electricians use then I wouldn't recommend it for this application. They are super handy for drilling and enlarging holes in j-boxes.
 
If you're talking about a step bit like electricians use then I wouldn't recommend it for this application. They are super handy for drilling and enlarging holes in j-boxes.

Yes and I agree. I noticed a few different types on the rack and started brainstorming while in line to buy my mouse traps and 3M strips for the smoke and CO alarms.

My mind is constantly working on whatever projects i have going...the Axe and Crosscuts are constant.:cool:
 
t97jpR2.jpg

didnt wanna pay $27 for a repro or wait for an old one to come up so i made this out of some scrap. spaced at .012

Another option is to make a dial indicating set gauge. They can be made for $10 - $20 and a dial indicator will be more useful and replace a whole hand full of spiders. More details at: http://www.pbase.com/jimthode/dialsetgauge

147195301.9DpOLsCI.IMG_7124a.jpg


Jim
 
That is one mean, beautiful saw and you have just turned me on to looking for a damaged treasure to shorten as well.
Now that you have shown me a great example, reminding and enlightening me...I think I know of a western saw fairly local that may be a candidate, however I will need to check it out to see if it's damaged and usable shortened or is it heavily rusted and pited.

Thank you Trailtime.

Don't be too concerned about rusted and pitted saws. If it is a quality saw, a badly pitted saw can be turned into a useful tool with a little effort.
Check out this video for a real ugly saw that was made to cut agian:

165126404.I16W8U1i.jpg


Jim
 
Don't be too concerned about rusted and pitted saws. If it is a quality saw, a badly pitted saw can be turned into a useful tool with a little effort.
Check out this video for a real ugly saw that was made to cut agian:

165126404.I16W8U1i.jpg


Jim

Thank you Jim.

This is an incredible example of resurrection back to work.
I admit I have watched your video several times and always very impressed. Thanks for the remotivatation not to be afraid of the rustier pitted saws.

I am looking when I can to find a western, this will remind me not to discount any saw. I have been thinking to shorten a damaged western for single bucking if I find one bent badly or broken even.

Thanks again,

Miller
 
Thank you Jim.

This is an incredible example of resurrection back to work.
I admit I have watched your video several times and always very impressed. Thanks for the remotivatation not to be afraid of the rustier pitted saws.

I am looking when I can to find a western, this will remind me not to discount any saw. I have been thinking to shorten a damaged western for single bucking if I find one bent badly or broken even.

Thanks again,

Miller

Thanks Miller. I agree, a cut off longer quality saw can make a very good user saw. I'm located in the Pacific Northwest and cut off or topping saws are quite common. I see them at flea markets and such but don't remember seeing any on Ebay. Maybe folks think they are damaged and not worth posting but they can make the best shorter user saws.
For a full length saw a 5' Simonds 520 is very good saw for trail work and such. It cuts fast and is very stiff for one or two sawyers.

Jim
 
Thanks Miller. I agree, a cut off longer quality saw can make a very good user saw. I'm located in the Pacific Northwest and cut off or topping saws are quite common. I see them at flea markets and such but don't remember seeing any on Ebay. Maybe folks think they are damaged and not worth posting but they can make the best shorter user saws.
For a full length saw a 5' Simonds 520 is very good saw for trail work and such. It cuts fast and is very stiff for one or two sawyers.

Jim

Thank you Jim, I greatly appreciate your input, advice and experiential recommendations as I continue learning and slowly gain my own experience.
I have been watching for a Simonds saw to become available here in my area of New England, primarily i have come across Disston. Thank you for recommending the 520 to look out for as a good two man yet still stiff enough to use solo. It must be a great saw to work with, I have had it recommended before and have seen an example of one used by Trailtime.
I was turned on to shortening a damaged saw, if I find one, by another member and sawyer here, trailtime.
I have been learning thru advice and the experience from many others here as well as from watching and reading USFS materials on Crosscuts.
The members here; square peg, Trailtime, trailsawyer, rjdankerts, phantomknives and more have all been very helpful and willing to share their experience and advice.

Thank you for sharing with me and ultimately anyone else also in my shoes reading.

Miller
 
Ebay occasionally has damaged saws, though collectors seem to dive on the toppers and bid them up. I'm hesitant to cut up a perfectly good saw (and piece of history), though less so if the saw is worn down. "All of Craigslist" will show you what's available everywhere, though most of the big saws will be in the Pacific northwest. I have bought saws long distance that way and have never gotten a bad deal, though not everybody is willing to box up and ship such a big piece of steel. Antique stores and other businesses are more likely to ship at cost. Example of somewhat worn 520, probably gone by now: https://salem.craigslist.org/tls/d/7-foot-long-2-man-crosscut/6402471640.html
 
Ebay occasionally has damaged saws, though collectors seem to dive on the toppers and bid them up. I'm hesitant to cut up a perfectly good saw (and piece of history), though less so if the saw is worn down. "All of Craigslist" will show you what's available everywhere, though most of the big saws will be in the Pacific northwest. I have bought saws long distance that way and have never gotten a bad deal, though not everybody is willing to box up and ship such a big piece of steel. Antique stores and other businesses are more likely to ship at cost. Example of somewhat worn 520, probably gone by now: https://salem.craigslist.org/tls/d/7-foot-long-2-man-crosscut/6402471640.html


Yes I saw that 7' 520 saw on Craigslist. Looks like a nice saw and a good price. The Simonds 520 saws are the preferred saw for traditional competition saws because they have more teeth then other quality saws like the Royal Chinooks. I've seen the longer 520's cut down to about 5' for a traditional competition saw.

For work saws in the PNW of a 6' to 7' length the Simonds 503 Royal Chinook was way more popular then the 520 saws in that length. In fact the 7' Simonds Royal Chinook 503 bucking saw was the most popular saw in PNW where most all bucking was single bucking. A stiff saw is needed for single bucking. There are a few Atkins #51 and very few Disston 7-11 bucking saws around but not a common as the 503.
Based on what saws I find around in the PNW in the 5' length, the Simonds 520 is/was more popular then the Royal Chinook 503. I see quite a few 5' 520 saws and 5' 503's are quite rare.

With that said any quality saw will get the job done. This is a 6' Simonds 520 at work on my firewood pile:
162324457.wn87VTmn.Z99A5971a.jpg


And my favorite trail saw, a 5' 520 on larger log:
166829118.NthwG5wk.160752550.MaUNS5YD.G0026888a.jpg


Jim
 
50 years ago I found six new crosscut saws in a corner of the storeroom of a old hardware store in rural Vermont. Five Simonds and one 7' Atkins #51. I bought all six saws. I was competing then, so I took the Atkins and cut it down to 5' to use in the single buck saw competitions. But, unlike my other cut down single buck saws, I cut 1' off of each end instead of cutting 2' off off just one end. This was a lot more work to fix it this way. It paid off though, that saw served me well and helped me win many competitions. I still have the saw. Like in Jim's pictures, when single bucking, I only use one 2 man handle not a D handle.
 
im working on that perf lance i picked up a bit ago. is there any reason why it should be magnetic? it hold on to those filings just like a magnet
 
Does anyone have info on Clean Cut brand crosscut saws? My grandparents have a one-man saw on the wall of their barn with that name etched onto the blade. I've looked but I haven't been able to find out anything about it. Any help would be appreciated.

Edit: I looked some more and found it is a line of tools sold by Dunham, Carrigan, and Hayden wholesale distributors located in San Francisco. If I'm reading it correctly they closed in either 1946 or 1967ish.
 
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