Crosscut saw to store at cabin

Fuori · Feb 17, 2015

Does anyone make a quality new production medium to large crosscut saw? I read a few older threads that suggested vintage saws, but I wouldn't begin to know which brand, size, or price to go with.

crown & hammer · Feb 17, 2015

I doubt you'll have any luck finding an affordable newly made saw. I read recently about an Australian made crosscut saw and it was maybe $150 and not as good as vintage. I assume you are referring to the very long saws with a peg handle at each end? As far as vintage, the most important thing is condition and tooth pattern. The perforated lance tooth pattern being the best. "Plain" lance tooth next best. Craftsman, Disston, Simonds made these and I'm sure lots of others. But, in my opinion I'd focus on condition of handles, blade --- and pattern. All this early 20th C steel is pretty much the same and high quality. The ebay selling prices will tell the price story, assuming you have to go that route.

crown & hammer · Feb 17, 2015

The company I was thinking of is in New Zealand --- Tuatahi --- and the price is more like $400--$600. Vintage is the way to go.

And to clarify -- 1 man or 2 man saw?

Fuori · Feb 17, 2015

If a vintage saw is my best option I'd have to go to an online site. I don't live in a state where I'd probably find many options at markets and yard sales. Since forum venders probably don't sell the antiques I'm looking for is it allowed to mention and discuss options from one? I'm not familiar with them and don't want to buy something that won't help me. Even if someone could just give me search parameters.

rjdankert · Feb 17, 2015

Fuori said:
Does anyone make a quality new production medium to large crosscut saw? I read a few older threads that suggested vintage saws, but I wouldn't begin to know which brand, size, or price to go with.

I don't know what your price range is, but Tuatahi (mentioned by crown & hammer) has an excellent reputation. Here is a forum dedicated to crosscut saws:

http://www.crosscutsawyer.com/

Steve Tall · Feb 17, 2015

I don't know about the quality, but Lehman's and Woodcraft sell these saws. You'd still need to be able to set and sharpen the teeth.

Axe Master '94 · Feb 17, 2015

Steve Tall said:
I don't know about the quality, but Lehman's and Woodcraft sell these saws. You'd still need to be able to set and sharpen the teeth.

Lehman's is an amazing store if you ever get there in person. Great selection of woodcraft tools and even some handmade axe handles.

Double Ott · Feb 17, 2015

Google: buy crosscut saw You find a woodworker listed there that sells new one & two man saws from $95 to$168.
But I'll warn you that the quality of them will not on par with some of the better vintage saws. They may also require filing (new out of the carton) to get them up to peak performance.

I would suggest that you look at t a Champion or a Tuttle tooth pattern if you are only going to buy one saw. These two patterns are very similar. The only difference is the shape of the cutter teeth. One has a straight filed cutter tooth the other has a an almond shaped cutter tooth. Both of these will do a good job on soft and hardwoods. They can also be filed to specifically cut one or the other.

A lance or a perforated lance tooth pattern is best for soft woods. It performs poorly on hardwoods. The long teeth will chatter cutting hardwoods.

If you have any other questions, let me know and I'll try and help. I have been collecting vintage crossscuts for a long time.

Tom

P.S. There are dealers of vintage saws that have been restored and sharpened, you can find them on the net.

trailtime · Feb 17, 2015

Fuori said:
Does anyone make a quality new production medium to large crosscut saw? I read a few older threads that suggested vintage saws, but I wouldn't begin to know which brand, size, or price to go with.

Short answer, no, though for big bucks you can by a Tuatahi. There are good filers who will sell you a sharp and properly set American classic saw. You will pay for their service but get a quality tool. Different saws are made for different wood. You will need to tell the filer the typical size and species of trees you plan to cut and he/she will set your saw accordingly. Most new retail crosscut saws will be poorly manufactured and arrive dull and unset.

All that said, you can't go wrong with a Disston #954 Champion tooth. They are very common on Ebay, antique stores, and flea markets. They run much smoother than lance-tooth saws. Expect to pay 50.00 at a flea market, 100.00 on Ebay, ~300.00 for a clean, refurbished, and professionally filed saw. Learn to file them yourself and you'll keep the cost down.

Square_peg · Feb 17, 2015

Trailtime gave you very good advice.

Lance tooth and perf-lance patterns were designed for western softwoods. Tuttle or Champion patterns are made for eastern deciduous hard woods.

The new saws sold by Woodcraft and Lehman's are stamped out of flat stock and the teeth are set to widen the kerf. A classic saw is taper ground from wider stock. The teeth on a classic saw are wider than the back of the saw. This helps prevent binding in the cut. Classic saws also have set in the teeth. The classic saw is a superior product. Note: I can't speak about Tuatahi's because I haven't handled or used one. A top shelf classic saw will be both taper ground and crescent ground. A crescent ground saw is thicker at the ends and thinner in the middle.

A perf-lance will have less chatter than a regular lance-tooth. Both lance tooth and Tuttle tooth saws can be used for either type of wood (soft or hard) but will excel at one type or the other.

If you find an old saw at a yard sale or estate sale you can send it off to be re-conditioned and sharpened. Dolly Chapman is reported to be a first rate filer.

There are videos on youtube that explain very clearly how to sharpen a crosscut saw. Special tools and experience are necessary.

Double Ott · Feb 18, 2015

Fuori, per your message, here is a listing of crosscut saw references that can be found on the net.

Warren Miller DVD:
The Crosscut Saw Filer 1123-2D03-MTDC

Crosscut Saw Manual 7771-2508-MTDC

Two other free manuals that are very interesting...

Saws That Sing, A Guide to Using Crosscut Saws 0423-2822MTDC

New Tools for Old Saws, Crosscut Saw Tools 0523-2815-MTDC

Crosscut Saw Guards
http://www.cross-cut.org/txt/CrosscutSawGuards-dpi300.pdf

YouTube video:
How I Sharpen a Crosscut Saw; by PATsawyer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrYsFlx3OSY

Vintage Simonds Sharpening Instructions
In the hay day of crosscuts instruction like this were frequently included with jointer combination
saw tools and provided the basics for many saw owners to maintain their own saws.
Shows use of a Jointer, raker gauge, setting stake and a spider.
http://www.bchw.org/Tech tips/vintage_simonds_sharpening_instr.htm

Another great resource (forum) full of information and guys willing to help you out is the crosscutsawyer.com:

http://www.crosscutsawyer.com/

Let me know if you have any other thoughts or questions. Be careful, crosscut saws can be as addicting as axes.

Good luck to you, Tom

the possum · Feb 18, 2015

Fuori-
I don't mean to sound silly, but could you explain why you're not looking at a chain saw? My chain saw cost $7 (yes, seven dollars) plus about 50 cents worth of new fuel line and a little time to change it (much less time than would be required to sharpen a big crosscut saw).

Double Ott · Feb 18, 2015

the possum said:
Fuori-
I don't mean to sound silly, but could you explain why you're not looking at a chain saw? My chain saw cost $7 (yes, seven dollars) plus about 50 cents worth of new fuel line and a little time to change it (much less time than would be required to sharpen a big crosscut saw).

BUT: Does your chainsaw sing?

Tom

Chignecto Woodsman · Feb 18, 2015

What would you recommend for white and red spruce? And what about a softwood and hardwood saw for the Acadian/New England forest (spruce, pine, birch, maple, ash)?
Thanks

Skweeker · Feb 19, 2015

Square_peg said:
The new saws sold by Woodcraft and Lehman's are stamped out of flat stock and the teeth are set to widen the kerf. A classic saw is taper ground from wider stock. The teeth on a classic saw are wider than the back of the saw. This helps prevent binding in the cut. Classic saws also have set in the teeth.QUOTE]

I have known accomplished filers to occasionally take on these saws (which are all made by the same supplier) and charge quite a bit for their efforts. Almost every aspect has to be redone from jointing and gullet filing to raker geometry and set. The flat stock they are stamped from is too thin to be tapered. Not worth it in my opinion.

Someone pointed out a British made one man saw to me a couple of years ago that looked promising. It was being made from some sort of "Sheffield" steel. Might have been "Thomas Something-or-the-other ltd". Try googling it.

trailtime · Feb 19, 2015

Chignecto Woodsman said:
What would you recommend for white and red spruce? And what about a softwood and hardwood saw for the Acadian/New England forest (spruce, pine, birch, maple, ash)?
Thanks

That's a lot of different wood, and from your location probably some frozen? My basic specs are .012"/.012" or 12/12 for set and raker depth on an all-around crosscut saw. If you have a flat saw plate, put in .003-.005 more set, if the wood is all frozen or dry hardwood, file the rakers at 0.10.

garry3 · Feb 20, 2015

Got to love them old saws, but if your not sawing anything to big there are those Silky saws. They cut pretty well.

sideways · Feb 20, 2015

garry3 said:
Got to love them old saws, but if your not sawing anything to big there are those Silky saws. They cut pretty well.

You're going to need something a bit bigger than a silky for firewood prep at a cabin. I do all my firewood prep with machines and haul it out to the places it's needed on a trailer.

A rented industrial wood processor is the top choice for the job of cutting rounds and splitting them. Then comes chainsaws and hydraulic splitters.

I keep a few of those longer bow saws and some replacement blades at places where I might need to do some manual sawing for some reason. They don't see frequent use though. The wood pile is a multi year project so I can afford to take breaks to keep the machines running. YMMV.

The biking viking · Feb 20, 2015

I don't have any experience with them but this website seems to have a decent selection of saws; not to mention other goods.

http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/Log-and-Timber-Saws/products/308/

300Six · Feb 21, 2015

This ('Swede saw', as they're called around here) above-depicted bow saw is a lovely alternative to 'pining for the good old days'. My dad jettisoned the Disston 'two man saw' he had immediately upon discovering new-fangled Swede saws in the early 1960s. Sandvik's were light and effortless, blades were replaceable, and the kerf loss was negligible. I distinctly remember learning the 'pull-only' in-unison learning curve technique of the 2-man Disston and never did miss my dad's ultimately putting that miserable woodsaw out at the side of the road on a garbage day.
Perhaps if you're cutting through Sequoias, Redwoods and old growth Firs a long saw is preferable, but for us ordinary Schmoes a Swede saw is the 'cat's ass' for limbing/felling/bucking of almost anything.