Custom order etiquette: Am I being impatient?

[brownshoe]

I follow him on Youtube and IG, so I am aware of the things he’s been doing. I also received an email about a year ago from Liam explaining the additional 2-3 month wait on top of the original 18-20 month timeframe given. Since it’s now 4 months (assuming my math is right) outside of that, my main question was is it appropriate etiquette to reach out and request more information on my particular order.

Right now he's taking orders and promising 10 month "lead time." You've been screwed waiting 26 months or the guy's a bold-faced liar on his website.

You mustn't be the only one, but there may be hope. On their "team" they have a guy whose only job is "Crackerjack of the camera, defuser of customer tensions." But don't worry, you'll get your knife, Hoffman's an Eagle Scout

Don't worry, in no way shape or form are you being "impatient."

 

[gaucheist]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback and advice. Based on your responses, I ended up reaching out to try to get an updated timeline.

“Are there any updates on an expected timeframe the July 2017 retail orders will be scheduled? Last I heard was late summer.”

Here’s the response I got back from Jacob (customer tension defuser):

“It really boils down to the axe model, as Liam can only forge entire batches of one model at a time. I know the next model he's looking to complete are Camp Axes.”

So Jacob unfortunately couldn’t provide any details on my specific order, and I still don’t have any idea when Liam may begin working on it.

The plan at this point is to just forget about it altogether, and one day be contacted by Liam’s team about my final deposit.

Thanks again for all of the feedback, and I’ll certainly attempt to avoid makers who require deposits and struggle with accurate timelines in the future.

 

[TOMBSTONE]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback and advice. Based on your responses, I ended up reaching out to try to get an updated timeline.

“Are there any updates on an expected timeframe the July 2017 retail orders will be scheduled? Last I heard was late summer.”

Here’s the response I got back from Jacob (customer tension defuser):

“It really boils down to the axe model, as Liam can only forge entire batches of one model at a time. I know the next model he's looking to complete are Camp Axes.”

So Jacob unfortunately couldn’t provide any details on my specific order, and I still don’t have any idea when Liam may begin working on it.

The plan at this point is to just forget about it altogether, and one day be contacted by Liam’s team about my final deposit.

Thanks again for all of the feedback, and I’ll certainly attempt to avoid makers who require deposits and struggle with accurate timelines in the future.

Sorry to hear that you still don't have a timeline estimate. I'm sure it's disappointing to know other people are probably getting orders filled ahead of you because of what model batch is being produced.

 

[SharpByCoop]

Well, you ordered a Camp Axe and according to Jacob: "I know the next model he's looking to complete are Camp Axes.”

So, NEXT is the unknown. Sounds very close. I hope next = soon, for everyone's sake.

 

[brownshoe]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback and advice. Based on your responses, I ended up reaching out to try to get an updated timeline.

“Are there any updates on an expected timeframe the July 2017 retail orders will be scheduled? Last I heard was late summer.”

Here’s the response I got back from Jacob (customer tension defuser):

“It really boils down to the axe model, as Liam can only forge entire batches of one model at a time. I know the next model he's looking to complete are Camp Axes.”

So Jacob unfortunately couldn’t provide any details on my specific order, and I still don’t have any idea when Liam may begin working on it.

The plan at this point is to just forget about it altogether, and one day be contacted by Liam’s team about my final deposit.

Thanks again for all of the feedback, and I’ll certainly attempt to avoid makers who require deposits and struggle with accurate timelines in the future.

Well I think you are getting screwed. Since the next model is the "Camp Ax" you ordered and he's started making them yesterday they should be able to give you a date. Plus per his schedule the next batch is 12/2 and 1/6...and they can't give you a straight answer. You just got BS, meaning Jacob is just the BS slinger as his "title" implies. This makes one think Liam Hofffman, Eagle Scout, has already spent the deposits in hand, so working on 2 year old orders means he only gets 2/3 the price upon completion.

Good luck.

Hopefully this thread will clue in future buyers. There's no need to pay 1/3 the price up front for a product that can be sold as quickly as this one supposedly does. Buy a Granfors Bruks axe, https://www.gransforsbruk.com/en/ handmade since 1902, tested by real men, and you can get one right now.

 

[TOMBSTONE]

Well I think you are getting screwed. Since the next model is the "Camp Ax" you ordered and he's started making them yesterday they should be able to give you a date. Plus per his schedule the next batch is 12/2 and 1/6...and they can't give you a straight answer. You just got BS, meaning Jacob is just the BS slinger as his "title" implies. This makes one think Liam Hofffman, Eagle Scout, has already spent the deposits in hand, so working on 2 year old orders means he only gets 2/3 the price upon completion.

Good luck.

Hopefully this thread will clue in future buyers. There's no need to pay 1/3 the price up front for a product that can be sold as quickly as this one supposedly does. Buy a Granfors Bruks axe, https://www.gransforsbruk.com/en/ handmade since 1902, tested by real men, and you can get one right now.

I couldn't understand the point of the deposit to be on the waiting list. A waiting list can be maintained without a deposit. When a maker is getting close to the next group of people on the list you contact for a deposit to secure a place and materials for the next batch. I don't know there has to be a better way then the current process.

 

[brownshoe]

I couldn't understand the point of the deposit to be on the waiting list. A waiting list can be maintained without a deposit. When a maker is getting close to the next group of people on the list you contact for a deposit to secure a place and materials for the next batch. I don't know there has to be a better way then the current process.

To me it's simple. A deposit or maybe even full payment is legit or if it's a custom design that couldn't be readily sold if the client takes a powder. An advance payment for expensive materials is cool too. But in this case, 30% up front for a standard model, makes one think there is a backstory and it has nothing to do with customer satisfaction.

 

[Ruzster]

Their reply to your query looks more of the same - Just Shut Up And Wait ‘cause I’m In Demand!! This maker’s CS sucks and his production schedule run around on your order is insultingly dismissive. You’ve been more than patient and any notion of “pestering” on your part is complete nonsense. He is the one responsible for communicating with you re updates or delays in your order, not he other way around. YMMV but I’d demand a refund and move on. Who needs this kind of headache for an axe? Best of luck.

 

[LastRodeo]

The custom makers I have worked with, including bigger names than this guy, have insisted they would not accept a deposit, even when I offered.

 

[Ruzster]

My final 2 cents FWIW: I think there’s a big distinction between being unreasonably impatient and demanding toward a custom maker and being so accommodating of his/her unreasonable and unprofessional actions, timelines or lack of communication that you end up being seen as a pushover. (You have been neither of those - just saying) There’s a reason a squeaky wheel gets oiled.

If you’ve paid a deposit to secure your place in line and you see other patrons who lined up after you getting moved to the front of the line while your only perceived option is to fret about “pestering” the “poor beleaguered” maker, you run the risk of always being an after-thought. Unfortunately, nice guys can sometimes end up finishing last. Again, I sincerely hope you get the piece you’ve been so patiently waiting for sooner than later.

Hoffman Blacksmithing has some ‘splaining to do. So far, it looks like Liam Hoffman and Hoffman Blacksmithing couldn’t care less.

**Edited to say that I stand corrected. He does care and has offered OP and current and future customers an explanation, apology and assurances of a reasonable plan to make good on existing and future commitments. Good on ya, Liam. Best of luck.

 

[knerd]

Good etiquette? Keeping a line of communication going if deadlines aren't met. This should be the custom maker's job. It is not rude for you to inquire about a date when you were given that date by the maker.

Also, NEVER pay a deposit.

 

[annr]

To me it's simple. A deposit or maybe even full payment is legit or if it's a custom design that couldn't be readily sold if the client takes a powder. An advance payment for expensive materials is cool too. But in this case, 30% up front for a standard model, makes one think there is a backstory and it has nothing to do with customer satisfaction.

I agree. What is the legitimate purpose of a deposit in this case? (I’ve been on wait lists as long as 10 years, some people have standing orders. The long lists obviate the necessity for a deposit. If you don’t take it, there is a line around the globe. And they don’t care if you say yes or no. With no warning, you get a call: cough up the dough or we move onto the next guy.)

 

[LastRodeo]

I agree. What is the legitimate purpose of a deposit in this case? (I’ve been on wait lists as long as 10 years, some people have standing orders. The long lists obviate the necessity for a deposit. If you don’t take it, there is a line around the globe. And they don’t care if you say yes or no. With no warning, you get a call: cough up the dough or we move onto the next guy.)

There is no reason for deposit. Any maker that is in such high demand that he has a long wait list would have no problem selling a knife if the buyer backed out at the last minute.

 

[Liam C Hoffman]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback and advice. Based on your responses, I ended up reaching out to try to get an updated timeline.

“Are there any updates on an expected timeframe the July 2017 retail orders will be scheduled? Last I heard was late summer.”

Here’s the response I got back from Jacob (customer tension defuser):

“It really boils down to the axe model, as Liam can only forge entire batches of one model at a time. I know the next model he's looking to complete are Camp Axes.”

So Jacob unfortunately couldn’t provide any details on my specific order, and I still don’t have any idea when Liam may begin working on it.

The plan at this point is to just forget about it altogether, and one day be contacted by Liam’s team about my final deposit.

Thanks again for all of the feedback, and I’ll certainly attempt to avoid makers who require deposits and struggle with accurate timelines in the future.

Thanks so much for bringing this to my attention. I feel terrible that you've been given such a vague response, and I can completely understand why you're questioning whether or not that's acceptable. Answer is, is that it's not. This business grew from a simple passion that I have for axe making. My goal is to make the best axe on earth and to deliver to everyone who is amazing enough to want to support that. We're currently in the process of replacing Jacob's position in customer service, but that doesn't excuse what's already been said. I have taken a step back both from email, and social media in order to get my head on straight, and focus on making things (what I love). Unfortunately that's let things slip between the contact of customer and maker. Please feel free to give me a call if you want to talk directly to me (828) 260-4593. As some other members who follow us closely have explained, we've been in a very tough spot for a few years now. "Growing pains". Please allow me to elaborate a little on how we got into the predicament we did and what we're doing to fix it. A couple of years ago we quickly discovered we were taking in far more orders than I could produce in my 270SF shop, so we shut down orders. Soon after that I put my money and energy into buying land, and building a large shop so that we can fill the orders I took on. Long story short, I got in a runaround with a shady contractor who cleaned my bank account and ended in a 6 month court battle. Luckily, we were able to find an already built structure 15 minutes down the road, and after feeling completely defeated we finally had something going for us in terms of expanding and filling orders. I've poured all of my time and energy into making this work. Fortunately we're at the point now where we're nearing a tipping point. Soon we'll go from behind on orders to caught up on orders, and that's all due to our diligence in improving our processes without compromising the handmade, quality aspect of it because we understand that without that, there is zero point in this business. It's a double edged sword that everyone at HB has been fighting for years. We are taking new orders now, and limiting the quantity to 10 per week (as others have said) which will not affect the timeline of any of our older orders because all of our orders are filled chronologically. By only taking 10 orders we're knocking out our backlog and getting caught up for new orders at the same time. I've had a really difficult time learning that trying to please everyone is a losing game. I assure you that I'm trying my hardest to make this work for everyone. Thank you for your patience!

 

[The Shatz]

Good on Liam for answering in person!! Hope it all works out

 

[Thomas Linton]

An "answer" obviously need not be more than what we got: "Sorry about breaking my contract despite your trusting down-payment years ago, but I''m doing better and hope to perform, tardily, relatively soon."

The seller's standard for checks not bouncing is: Try not. There is no try. There is do and do not.

 

[Pàdruig]

Thanks so much for bringing this to my attention. I feel terrible that you've been given such a vague response, and I can completely understand why you're questioning whether or not that's acceptable. Answer is, is that it's not. This business grew from a simple passion that I have for axe making. My goal is to make the best axe on earth and to deliver to everyone who is amazing enough to want to support that. We're currently in the process of replacing Jacob's position in customer service, but that doesn't excuse what's already been said. I have taken a step back both from email, and social media in order to get my head on straight, and focus on making things (what I love). Unfortunately that's let things slip between the contact of customer and maker. Please feel free to give me a call if you want to talk directly to me (828) 260-4593. As some other members who follow us closely have explained, we've been in a very tough spot for a few years now. "Growing pains". Please allow me to elaborate a little on how we got into the predicament we did and what we're doing to fix it. A couple of years ago we quickly discovered we were taking in far more orders than I could produce in my 270SF shop, so we shut down orders. Soon after that I put my money and energy into buying land, and building a large shop so that we can fill the orders I took on. Long story short, I got in a runaround with a shady contractor who cleaned my bank account and ended in a 6 month court battle. Luckily, we were able to find an already built structure 15 minutes down the road, and after feeling completely defeated we finally had something going for us in terms of expanding and filling orders. I've poured all of my time and energy into making this work. Fortunately we're at the point now where we're nearing a tipping point. Soon we'll go from behind on orders to caught up on orders, and that's all due to our diligence in improving our processes without compromising the handmade, quality aspect of it because we understand that without that, there is zero point in this business. It's a double edged sword that everyone at HB has been fighting for years. We are taking new orders now, and limiting the quantity to 10 per week (as others have said) which will not affect the timeline of any of our older orders because all of our orders are filled chronologically. By only taking 10 orders we're knocking out our backlog and getting caught up for new orders at the same time. I've had a really difficult time learning that trying to please everyone is a losing game. I assure you that I'm trying my hardest to make this work for everyone. Thank you for your patience!

Liam, I've been following your stuff for quite awhile now and I always enjoy seeing your work. That said, I don't have a lot of patience for what I largely see as "Insta-famous" makers (I'm aware that this doesn't necessarily apply to you), they usually come with lengthy waits and/or very limited numbers. Obviously, that drives up demand which complicates things even more. I'd rather have my tools be more easily available.

Now, you should never apologize for your fame or the fact that your work is excellent. My lack of aforementioned patience is my issue, not yours. Should the stars align in the future, I'd be happy to own a piece of your work.

BF can be a rather unforgiving place when it comes to makers and the way they do business. In most cases, I'd venture to say that the ire is well deserved. However, you're a young craftsman and the way that you deal with these hiccups that you are bound to experience as you build your brand and business is going to be very telling in the not so distant future. There are lessons to be learned and as long as you learn from them in ways that many makers have refused to, you'll continue to go a long way towards endearing yourself to this community.

I hope that your business model continues to improve and that you continue to grow as not only a terrific craftsman but an upstanding businessman. I also hope the OP gets the resolution that he seeks.

 

[brownshoe]

Thanks so much for bringing this to my attention. I feel terrible that you've been given such a vague response, and I can completely understand why you're questioning whether or not that's acceptable. Answer is, is that it's not. This business grew from a simple passion that I have for axe making. My goal is to make the best axe on earth and to deliver to everyone who is amazing enough to want to support that. We're currently in the process of replacing Jacob's position in customer service, but that doesn't excuse what's already been said. I have taken a step back both from email, and social media in order to get my head on straight, and focus on making things (what I love). Unfortunately that's let things slip between the contact of customer and maker. Please feel free to give me a call if you want to talk directly to me (828) 260-4593. As some other members who follow us closely have explained, we've been in a very tough spot for a few years now. "Growing pains". Please allow me to elaborate a little on how we got into the predicament we did and what we're doing to fix it. A couple of years ago we quickly discovered we were taking in far more orders than I could produce in my 270SF shop, so we shut down orders. Soon after that I put my money and energy into buying land, and building a large shop so that we can fill the orders I took on. Long story short, I got in a runaround with a shady contractor who cleaned my bank account and ended in a 6 month court battle. Luckily, we were able to find an already built structure 15 minutes down the road, and after feeling completely defeated we finally had something going for us in terms of expanding and filling orders. I've poured all of my time and energy into making this work. Fortunately we're at the point now where we're nearing a tipping point. Soon we'll go from behind on orders to caught up on orders, and that's all due to our diligence in improving our processes without compromising the handmade, quality aspect of it because we understand that without that, there is zero point in this business. It's a double edged sword that everyone at HB has been fighting for years. We are taking new orders now, and limiting the quantity to 10 per week (as others have said) which will not affect the timeline of any of our older orders because all of our orders are filled chronologically. By only taking 10 orders we're knocking out our backlog and getting caught up for new orders at the same time. I've had a really difficult time learning that trying to please everyone is a losing game. I assure you that I'm trying my hardest to make this work for everyone. Thank you for your patience!

Nice story.
Still didn't tell the guy when he's going to get his knife.
Still didn't say you'd refund the money right now.
So you haven't really addressed the guy's problem.

Sounds like you've spent those previous deposits and are looking for new deposits to keep your business afloat.

 

[Pàdruig]

Nice story.
Still didn't tell the guy when he's going to get his knife.
Still didn't say you'd refund the money right now.
So you haven't really addressed the guy's problem.

Sounds like you've spent those previous deposits and are looking for new deposits to keep your business afloat.

Did you miss the part where he provided his phone number?

Just sounds like you are wanting to continue to stir things up. How about we wait and see if the OP was able to successfully contact Liam before casting more stones.

 

[brownshoe]

Did you miss the part where he provided his phone number?

Just sounds like you are wanting to continue to stir things up. How about we wait and see if the OP was able to successfully contact Liam before casting more stones.

No need to wait, just give Gaucheist a delivery date. The "build" schedule is posted on his site. The number he gave is nothing special, it's available as well.