Cutting Boards for Harder Knives

M

MplsAtty

Joined
Aug 20, 2007
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Right up front I'll admit I'm a novice when it comes to kitchen cutlery & cutting boards -- I'm more knowledgeable about outdoors & tactical knives than those used for food prep. I'm working to change this, however, since one of the primary uses for most of my knives is food prep.

While working on some dinner prep at a rented cabin last summer, I was using a Spyderco Superleaf to cut some veggies & the VG-10 steel carved, cut into, & chipped the wood cutting board supplied at the cabin. Figuring the cutting board to have been old & poorly cared far, I didn't think much of it until I used the same knife on a wood (or maybe it was bamboo, I can't remember now) cutting board at home, which was certainly no more than a couple years old (though I'll grant also not well maintained). But the knife made fairly deep bites into the wood on both boards.

I know that most kitchen cutlery is quite a bit softer than knives meant for outdoors or tactical purposes. I also know my technique is likely also lacking. However, if a knife suddenly slips through a carrot or potato, I'd hope the cutting board could handle it better than those other two did.

Are woods used in cutting boards just too soft for harder knives? Are there wood cutting boards made for harder knives? Will Epicurean cutting boards withstand use with knives that have harder edges? Thanks in advance...
 
I don't think hard edge is the problem. I have knives with 64 HRC.
The problem is the thickness of the blade and the profile. You would have more fun in the kitchen with a Gyuto or a petty designed for food :)

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fufkmse.html
A 180 Guyto would hit the spot :)


But you can also buy plastic cutting boards from IKEA, less than $2 a piece :)
End grain cutting boards is of course the best :)
 
Oivind, I like that Gyuto -- decent price, too!

As far as the blade thickness & profile, I don't understand how that poses a problem. The Superleaf has a leaf-shaped blade that's really not all that different from a chef knife profile, though shorter. It's also narrower, but it has a flat grind & is decently thin by the time it gets to the edge.

This just occurred to me: Are the handle ergonomics maybe causing me to apply more leverage than I would with a standard kitchen knife?

Thanks for the response!
 
MplsAtty said:
Oivind, I like that Gyuto -- decent price, too!

As far as the blade thickness & profile, I don't understand how that poses a problem. The Superleaf has a leaf-shaped blade that's really not all that different from a chef knife profile, though shorter. It's also narrower, but it has a flat grind & is decently thin by the time it gets to the edge.

This just occurred to me: Are the handle ergonomics maybe causing me to apply more leverage than I would with a standard kitchen knife?

Thanks for the response!
Click to expand...

The edge is incredibly thick on a super leaf compared to something like a gyuto. Did you notice that you were sort of forcing the edge through the carrot, and impacting on the board?

The hardness of the steel isn't so much the issue as is the construction of the board itself. Hardwood end grain boards tend to be considered better than other types.
 
The link i gave you was a great buy :) It also comes in carbon if you prefer that.
Torjo DP is an other great starting point.

I really recommend you going down the kitchen cutlery road. Its magical when it comes to knives. Start off with cheap ones, and then go bananas and end up with high end customs :P
 
Try a Corian cutting board. If you chip that, you need a different knife and/or technique.
 
Wood is the best material for knife blades. It is also the most sanitary, believe it or not. A good wooden butcher block that is cared for will last decades or even centuries. As a general rule, maple is considered the golden standard, with cherry and walnut being good woods as well. End grain boards are desired for being the easiest on knives, having cool cosmetic patterns, having self-healing properties, and being extremely durable. With how end grain works, those marks made hide very well and to a degree they close up because of your blade literally "meshing" with a grained surface instead of a flat one.

Ideally, you want a board at least 1.5 inches thick and preferably 2-3+ inches if you are doing hard chopping on it. The thicker boards tend to last longer, hold up better, offer more refinishing options, and be easier on knife blades with harder chops.

Brand-wise, there are good brands, OK brands, fantastic brands, and terrible brands. BoardSmith is considered by many to make the best cutting boards around. I am a huge fan of Michigan Maple. I HATE John Boos and would not recommend them unless they were free.

Care will determine the fate of even the best of boards. A proper oil (NOT food oil like olive oil as it will RUIN the board), proper cleaning & drying, and not allowing the board to soak continually in water will keep it functioning like new for a long time. Really heavily used (but cared for) boards are also generally easy to refinish.

As for hard knives, end grain maple is HIGHLY advised because it will be much, much easier on the blade. Something like bamboo is more likely to damage the knives with higher hardness than lower. I used a ZDP-189 knife once on one of my bamboo boards and the outcome was brutal. Rockwell hardness on it was like 66 IIRC...

Ultimately, what I am saying is that the best board is generally end grain maple. This board is a great performer and at a very reasonable price...quality far exceeds John Boos:
http://www.butcherblock.com/shop/15-square-end-grain-chopping-block/




Woods like teak are not as good. They tend to be harsher on knives. The boards themselves are very durable, however. Pine and cedar are not used for obvious reasons. Bamboo is about as bad as you get. It does not hold up, has a ton of hard glue on it, cannot be refinished, and is brutal on knife blades. Many plastics are very harsh on blades as well. Some composite materials are even worse.





tiguy7 said:
Try a Corian cutting board. If you chip that, you need a different knife and/or technique.
Click to expand...

The knife is what will be chipped rather than the board. My experience with Corian cutting boards has found that they are absolutely brutal on knife blades and like bamboo are one of the worst materials for this, IMO. I also cannot say I am confident that Corian is going to be as sanitary as a wooden block after extended usage given the more recent findings of how wooden boards kill bacteria.
 
Thanks everyone for the replies! I've been drawn to gyutos because they are a bit more familiar in design to me, & I'm a novice as far as kitchen knives go. I really like my Epicurean boards, but I'm definitely looking into wood cutting boards!
 
pnsxyr said:
Wood is the best material for knife blades. It is also the most sanitary, believe it or not. A good wooden butcher block that is cared for will last decades or even centuries. As a general rule, maple is considered the golden standard, with cherry and walnut being good woods as well. End grain boards are desired for being the easiest on knives, having cool cosmetic patterns, having self-healing properties, and being extremely durable. With how end grain works, those marks made hide very well and to a degree they close up because of your blade literally "meshing" with a grained surface instead of a flat one.

Ideally, you want a board at least 1.5 inches thick and preferably 2-3+ inches if you are doing hard chopping on it. The thicker boards tend to last longer, hold up better, offer more refinishing options, and be easier on knife blades with harder chops.

Brand-wise, there are good brands, OK brands, fantastic brands, and terrible brands. BoardSmith is considered by many to make the best cutting boards around. I am a huge fan of Michigan Maple. I HATE John Boos and would not recommend them unless they were free.

Care will determine the fate of even the best of boards. A proper oil (NOT food oil like olive oil as it will RUIN the board), proper cleaning & drying, and not allowing the board to soak continually in water will keep it functioning like new for a long time. Really heavily used (but cared for) boards are also generally easy to refinish.

As for hard knives, end grain maple is HIGHLY advised because it will be much, much easier on the blade. Something like bamboo is more likely to damage the knives with higher hardness than lower. I used a ZDP-189 knife once on one of my bamboo boards and the outcome was brutal. Rockwell hardness on it was like 66 IIRC...

Ultimately, what I am saying is that the best board is generally end grain maple. This board is a great performer and at a very reasonable price...quality far exceeds John Boos:
http://www.butcherblock.com/shop/15-square-end-grain-chopping-block/




Woods like teak are not as good. They tend to be harsher on knives. The boards themselves are very durable, however. Pine and cedar are not used for obvious reasons. Bamboo is about as bad as you get. It does not hold up, has a ton of hard glue on it, cannot be refinished, and is brutal on knife blades. Many plastics are very harsh on blades as well. Some composite materials are even worse.







The knife is what will be chipped rather than the board. My experience with Corian cutting boards has found that they are absolutely brutal on knife blades and like bamboo are one of the worst materials for this, IMO. I also cannot say I am confident that Corian is going to be as sanitary as a wooden block after extended usage given the more recent findings of how wooden boards kill bacteria.
Click to expand...

I am a noob with cutting boards and have only a couple maple/walnut end grain boards. Why is cedar bad? I have a large selection of western red cedar (not aromatic cedar), and was thinking of making some boards from it. I'll scrap the idea though.
 
Willie71 said:
I am a noob with cutting boards and have only a couple maple/walnut end grain boards. Why is cedar bad? I have a large selection of western red cedar (not aromatic cedar), and was thinking of making some boards from it. I'll scrap the idea though.
Click to expand...

I have read the aroma/possible toxicity is only part of the issue, but the bigger problem is the bonding in the long-term and that the wood is too soft (to my understanding western red is even softer). I imagine the scar marks would be so deep that the wood would be difficult to seal and clean after extended usage, especially if used at a butcher block.

I think one of the reasons maple is so well-liked is because it is right at a point of not too hard and not too soft, plus end grain maple boards are so tight in grain that they tend to do great in babying the knife's edge, self-healing of scar marks, and are relatively easy to seal with a food grade oil, making usage and cleanup easier. Also to my understanding, maple is one of the woods that works the best in the long-run with bonding materials like that type iii glue (or whatever it is called) that you guys use to bond the wood. Supposedly that's a major reason there are so many maple boards made 50+ years ago that still work fine today and why maple is super common on those massive thick butcher blocks that cost a fortune and are used primarily to cut meat and withstand quite a lot of chopping force with practically non-stop usage.

I've always thought of maple as kind of a plain looking wood. Cedar is absolutely gorgeous, and I also really like the colors and patterns of teak. But thus far I've not used another board that I think is comparable to end-grain maple (I'd use walnut, but I cook for someone with pretty bad nut allergies) and no board I have used reduces scar markings anything like my end grain maples.

I imagine a decorative board made of cedar would be a great addition to the kitchen in which it could be used for other non-cutting tasks (like cooking salmon, specialty baking, or serving food). An appetizer served on a wooden board always seems to attract more attention as it makes almost any food look more appetizing, and western red would be a gorgeous display. I've also always wondered if cedar serving trays would keep bugs off the food for things like picnics where it's almost impossible to keep flies away?
 
I have a fair bit of maple here too, and its cheap in my area if I need more. Thank you for the explanation. An interesting aside, I could not use cedar chips for my snakes when I used to breed them as a hobby. The cedar was toxic to them. Maple is easy to work and glue, and it has a tight closed grain. All positives in this application.
 
Do they produce a lot of different hardwoods in the Alberta region? I imagine it's one of the best climates on Earth for good hard maple given a huge chunk of our hardwood in the States comes from states that border Canada (I'm also guessing like a lot of US wood producers than Canadian wood producers are shipping tons of their wood overseas given the demand from China is just incredible, especially for hardwoods.)
 
We produce a lot of spruce, polar, pine, and some birch. Maybe there is more maple in the southern end of the province. Aspen, a form of poplar is the most common hardwood. We have a fair bit of the softer "Manitoba" maple, also known as box elder. We are one zone too cool for the harder maples, but we can grow them in our yards with some care. I forgot, there is a lot of willow here as well. Edmonton area, close to me, has the worlds largest elm population too.
 
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I have a bit of heresy here.

Have used a massive amount of different chopping/cutting boards over the years.

Am in the process of transitioning from primarily plastic boards to primarily wooden/bamboo boards for two different reasons...

1. Wooden boards have proven more hygenic.
2. Most of my kitchen knives are hard, thin stainless and I have broken some tips on plastic boards, but have not on wooden boards.

That said....about two years ago, I purchased an "art" cutting board comprised of maple, bloodwood, walnut and oak. The oak grain kept rising up over the other grains, which was driving me nuts. I went to Rockler and got "board balm" or something like that which is beeswax and mineral oil, basically. It didn't do diddly to keep the grain from lifting. I went back and got General Finishes Salad Bowl Finish, and have not looked back.

It basically plasticizes and waterproofs the top layer of the board. It works, and has not shown a particular affinity for hurting the edges as plastic boards does. I have used it on all my wooden boards and will continue to do so. Because it plasticizes the top layer of the board, you might wind up with some bits in your food. It is safe for consumption, and I have never noticed any particles in sushi or anything like that, just sometimes when I am chopping herbs or similar.

Am a fan of this product, have a board coming from Boos and will be using it with that as well.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
I know I'm jumping in late but have had a lot of experience with cutting boards. Maple is the golden standard with Cherry being my second favorite and yes they are more sanitary than anything else out there. Maple is a closed cell wood that will not harbor bacteria if taken care of properly. One thing I didn't see when speaking about Bamboo most species contain silica similar to teak which is obviously abrasive.

Also keeping them oiled is key to how they function, a great product is Mike Mahoney's Walnut oil. It's walnut oil that's heat treated with all the proteins remove and doesn't turn rancid. I use on all my boards and most scales for kitchen blades. I have no connections just a satisfied customer
 
I just ordered a Michigan Maple board after reading this thread. Been looking for a nice maple or cherry board for a while but the prices were holding me off. Seems like a nice board for a decent price, will see how it holds up with use hopefully no problems.
 
Dopic1 said:
One thing I didn't see when speaking about Bamboo most species contain silica similar to teak which is obviously abrasive.
Click to expand...

I see a lot of talk about teak containing silica and being hard on knives, but I've not found any damage to mine at all. According to some folks over on KKF, teak got a bad rap from wood workers because it is hard on fast moving machine tools. In my experience, well maintained teak end grain is fine on high end knives, and quite beautiful as well. I even use my laser on it, and thinned Chinese cleavers. Never had any chipping or blade damage, and my knives' edge retention has been great. Perhaps this is more about technique than anything.

Bamboo, on the other hand, is nothing but trouble. Never again!
 
pnsxyr said:
Wood is the best material for knife blades. It is also the most sanitary, believe it or not. A good wooden butcher block that is cared for will last decades or even centuries. As a general rule, maple is considered the golden standard, with cherry and walnut being good woods as well. End grain boards are desired for being the easiest on knives, having cool cosmetic patterns, having self-healing properties, and being extremely durable. With how end grain works, those marks made hide very well and to a degree they close up because of your blade literally "meshing" with a grained surface instead of a flat one.

Ideally, you want a board at least 1.5 inches thick and preferably 2-3+ inches if you are doing hard chopping on it. The thicker boards tend to last longer, hold up better, offer more refinishing options, and be easier on knife blades with harder chops.

Brand-wise, there are good brands, OK brands, fantastic brands, and terrible brands. BoardSmith is considered by many to make the best cutting boards around. I am a huge fan of Michigan Maple. I HATE John Boos and would not recommend them unless they were free.

Care will determine the fate of even the best of boards. A proper oil (NOT food oil like olive oil as it will RUIN the board), proper cleaning & drying, and not allowing the board to soak continually in water will keep it functioning like new for a long time. Really heavily used (but cared for) boards are also generally easy to refinish.

As for hard knives, end grain maple is HIGHLY advised because it will be much, much easier on the blade. Something like bamboo is more likely to damage the knives with higher hardness than lower. I used a ZDP-189 knife once on one of my bamboo boards and the outcome was brutal. Rockwell hardness on it was like 66 IIRC...

Ultimately, what I am saying is that the best board is generally end grain maple. This board is a great performer and at a very reasonable price...quality far exceeds John Boos:
http://www.butcherblock.com/shop/15-square-end-grain-chopping-block/




Woods like teak are not as good. They tend to be harsher on knives. The boards themselves are very durable, however. Pine and cedar are not used for obvious reasons. Bamboo is about as bad as you get. It does not hold up, has a ton of hard glue on it, cannot be refinished, and is brutal on knife blades. Many plastics are very harsh on blades as well. Some composite materials are even worse.







The knife is what will be chipped rather than the board. My experience with Corian cutting boards has found that they are absolutely brutal on knife blades and like bamboo are one of the worst materials for this, IMO. I also cannot say I am confident that Corian is going to be as sanitary as a wooden block after extended usage given the more recent findings of how wooden boards kill bacteria.
Click to expand...

My experience with Corian differs from yours. My edges last much longer on Corian than they do on wooden boards. Sanitizing Corian boards is a lead pipe cinch. They endure soap, hot water, bleach, etc. with impunity and can be put away wet. There is no porosity, swelling, or degradation as can happen with wood. Most woods contain silicates which are a natural abrasive as found in Arkansas stones (microcrystalline quartz). If I am doing cleaver work, I use a high density polypropylene board. For the rest, a methyl methacrylate (Corian) board is a wonderful platform.
 
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