Cypress - or other soft woods

[Kawter]

Okay…. So I’ve tried pretty much everything <sigh>

While I’m not making knife handles, I am attempting to get the same “mirror” or “glass” finish as a knife or a pen - but my final products are wooden beads.

I CAN get the bead to shine amazingly using CA after stabilizing, but that process won’t scale.

So…. Here’s the question. What are your thoughts on how to get the finish as “mirror” like as possible without the CA process (or any intriguing way to make a CA process scale to beadwork)

Here’s my current process.
1: Dry the wood
2: Stabalize with cactus juice (was recommended by Chris, the owner to have the vaccum run 5x as long, MINIMUM and soak for 5 days… that did help - as cypress is a gnarly soft wood.
3: Cut and shape the beads
4: Sand on a dremel (like a lathe) the beads with 3m pads from 320-3,500 (here’s where I don’t know if I may be screwing up.. if tried wet, dry, linseed oil sanding all at various RPM. from slow to blazing fast. Slurry and no slurry. Have no idea here)
5: Wet sand 5, 7, & 10k
6: Polish and or wax. Man I’ve tried most everything except pink Polish (tried red and white). Tried carnuba and bees wax. All of it.

Bottom line I can get the wood looking descent. But not like I can get a scale by itself. I’m not sure if it’s the size of the bead or just the nature of Cypress (yes it has to be cypress).

Any thoughts, questions, critiques and sh**t talk more than welcome. Just trying to fail one late time.

Thank you in advance
Eric

 

[SS369]

Hi, if you are spinning the beads fairly fast you could try Hutwax. I have used it on pens and many other projects that I could spin. I've also burnished the soft woods with a piece of leather after sanding.
Hope this helps.

 

[Kawter]

Hi, if you are spinning the beads fairly fast you could try Hutwax. I have used it on pens and many other projects that I could spin. I've also burnished the soft woods with a piece of leather after sanding.
Hope this helps.

Thank you for those two directions. I had tried leather, but after looking up “burnishing” in general.. I can see another potential round of experiments and learning. Also the Hut, products seem interesting. I’ll give these two a go.

Curious if anyone has ever turn polished with Pink?

 

[TLR]

I know that cactus juice is very popular but there's a big difference between that product and having it done at a place like K&G. I'm not trying to knock your process but as you do small beads you may be hitting areas that aren't stabilized quite as well as the outside sections. Take this with a grain of salt. Just throwing out a possibility.

 

[Hubert S.]

Not sure how this topic ended up in the knife making forum, but it reminds me of a technical conference I attended many years ago in Milwaukee. Concurrent with our conference, they had another gathering there called the "Bead and Button Convention", and a couple ladies from that show ended up in the hotel bar. After a few drinks, me and my buddy started to work stupid bead related puns into the conversation, like "how is this related to knife making? Beads me..", or "let's not bead around the bush, this has nothing to do with knife making". I guess you had to have been there...

To the question at hand, I think I actually got a pretty good bead on this. I think it may be related to the grain direction. It's difficult to get a good polish on end grain, and with a sphere, there has to be some end grain somewhere. Depending on how the axis of the hole is aligned with the grain direction, you might be looking mostly at end grain. Not to bead a dead horse, but I would look into the direction of the grain and see if that might have something to do with it.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

If it has to be cypress, have the beads professionally stabilized.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

I agree with Bill. Turn the beads to about 120% oversize and send off to K&G for stabilizing. When they come back turn them down to size and polish as usual.

 

[3fifty7]

Beads as in lanyard beads or will these be purely decorative? Not that it matters I’m just curious.

A useless suggestion that probably won’t work is to try TruOil on the bare wood. I’ve refinished a handful of rifle stocks with it and with enough coats over bare wood you can build up that deep glassed look. Now I’ve never done it on cypress but once the wood no longer absorbs the oil, it sets up on itself with a hard high gloss finish.

 

[john april]

i see a few possibilities. are you curing after you stabilize ? ( cant hurt to ask). if its stabilized all the way thru, it should shine. any void should have been filled. im not sure what your stabilizing setup is like or how much vacuum your pulling. truoil as suggested above is wet/shiny looking, but its a surface finish, and will get dull from wear. when you are sanding from 320- 3500 how are you positive you have gotten rid of all the previous grits scratches? if you still have 600 grit scratches when your sanding at 3500 it wont show gloss. i usually take wood up to a clean 1000 and buff for a nice semi gloss.

 

[Kawter]

i see a few possibilities. are you curing after you stabilize ? ( cant hurt to ask). if its stabilized all the way thru, it should shine. any void should have been filled. im not sure what your stabilizing setup is like or how much vacuum your pulling. truoil as suggested above is wet/shiny looking, but its a surface finish, and will get dull from wear. when you are sanding from 320- 3500 how are you positive you have gotten rid of all the previous grits scratches? if you still have 600 grit scratches when your sanding at 3500 it wont show gloss. i usually take wood up to a clean 1000 and buff for a nice semi gloss.

Wow. First of all. Thank you to everyone I. This thread and forum for such pointed and knowledgable insights. Very appreciative.

In regards to this. I’m peaking out my vaccum which I believe to be around 29” of mercury- at about 750’ above sea level I think that is sufficient. After talking to Curtis &TurnTex (again last night) he had recommended a 24hr vacuum and 4 day soak. So I do believe they are getting the best saturation possible for this method. And by curing, do you mean heat treating? If so, yes I am baking them in foil at 200° for 2 hours.

I have avoided the truoil process as I have achieved a “similar” - “natural” shine finish with a homemade Dutch oil prices. I’m in love with the look…. It’s just not that “piano shine” like you see on a high end knife etc. of which I’ve had jewelry stores tell me they will want a version like that. That will stay the same shine day one as day 100

I’m pretty certain the sanding process is getting best possible scratches out. And even if there are some left. I’m it’s best…. It’s just not a piano shine - of which, a convo last night with Curtis seemed to also think that his cactus juice would not yield it and I’d need either CA or a lacquer finish.

 

[Kawter]

Beads as in lanyard beads or will these be purely decorative? Not that it matters I’m just curious.

A useless suggestion that probably won’t work is to try TruOil on the bare wood. I’ve refinished a handful of rifle stocks with it and with enough coats over bare wood you can build up that deep glassed look. Now I’ve never done it on cypress but once the wood no longer absorbs the oil, it sets up on itself with a hard high gloss finish.

They will be bracelets and maybe necklaces. You can check out @thecypresspebble on Instagram - I have the site CypressPebble.com and the idea is to leverage the aurora of this wood and region. For comparison I will be approaching the market similar to a William Henry or David Yerman.

I’m with you on the TruOil finish. Especially when done over the course of SEVERAL weeks. It creates an amazing finish…. It’s just that it leaves a little maintaining to the customer. Which is fine - but not for everyone. Here is an example of the Dutch oil finish. Go easy on me as it’s just a quick lighting test but directionally where I want to be. The look I am not achieving is more of a “piano” or “tigers eye” finish. But who knows…. Maybe it’s not possible.

 

[Kawter]

I agree with Bill. Turn the beads to about 120% oversize and send off to K&G for stabilizing. When they come back turn them down to size and polish as usual.

Love this. Thank you. I will look into K&G. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it!!

 

[Kawter]

If it has to be cypress, have the beads professionally stabilized.

Curtis seemed to also be convinced that his cactus juice wouldn’t get to that level of shine. So I think you may be completely on point. Thank you Sir.

 

[Kawter]

Not sure how this topic ended up in the knife making forum, but it reminds me of a technical conference I attended many years ago in Milwaukee. Concurrent with our conference, they had another gathering there called the "Bead and Button Convention", and a couple ladies from that show ended up in the hotel bar. After a few drinks, me and my buddy started to work stupid bead related puns into the conversation, like "how is this related to knife making? Beads me..", or "let's not bead around the bush, this has nothing to do with knife making". I guess you had to have been there...

To the question at hand, I think I actually got a pretty good bead on this. I think it may be related to the grain direction. It's difficult to get a good polish on end grain, and with a sphere, there has to be some end grain somewhere. Depending on how the axis of the hole is aligned with the grain direction, you might be looking mostly at end grain. Not to bead a dead horse, but I would look into the direction of the grain and see if that might have something to do with it.

Ahhahaha. I asked for snark and got it. In spades!!! Thank you. And to answer your question… there’s not really a “bead making” forum that is focused on getting finished wood heads. They’re mostly lapidary and low end how to make bracelets of beads that are purchased. As the composite of manufacturing os either low end or very high detailed “jade smith” type work.

I do think you are on to something.. in addition, the wood is a composite with the cactus juice and not a full acrylic. Which. Leaves the edge drain of the wood…. To be still “wood”. Which I’m thinking this K&L company could be the way.

 

[A.McPherson]

K&G, like knife and gun.

 

[Kawter]

That

I know that cactus juice is very popular but there's a big difference between that product and having it done at a place like K&G. I'm not trying to knock your process but as you do small beads you may be hitting areas that aren't stabilized quite as well as the outside sections. Take this with a grain of salt. Just throwing out a possibility.

seems to be the consensus. Thank you TLR!!

K&G, like knife and gun.

haha good catch…. The funny thing is I typed K&L wood stabilizing into google. And I got K&L. Saved by google haha. Anyhow I called them and it seems like an interesting route I will try. Apparently they do a 4,000 psi stabilization. Much different I guess. He also said Cypress was probably one of the most unpredictable woods they ever do. So I guess I’m not alone