D.C. Knife Laws

ndeezl

ndeezl

Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
2,037
Hi All,
I'm going to DC in a few days to visit my family so was just looking up the local knife laws. There is mention of a 3" blade restriction, but it appears to only be of the "with the intent to harm" variety. From reading this I'm assuming that there is not a 3" blade restriction if the knife is being carried/used in a lawful manner. Can anyone take a quick look and give me your opinion? It's a quick read, here's the link.

http://www.knife-expert.com/dc.txt

Nathan
 
If you're going to any Federal or DC building or museum, don't carry a knife. There are metal detectors everywhere in DC, even on some Metros. Even if you're not going to any of those, be sure to keep your knife in your pocket out of sight (no pocket clips, etc). With all the demonstrations going on in DC, if you should get swept up in one of those by mistake, you're cooked also. Probably better all around just not to carry one in DC - it's like a police state there.

Rich
 
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Thanks Rich. Why no pocket clip? Just curious if it's because it's only legal to carry concealed or you just wouldn't recommend advertising that you're carrying a knife? FWIW more than likely I'll bring a small slipjoint of some kind.

Nathan
 
No pocket clip just so you don't advertise that you're carry a knife. I went to college in DC in the 1960's and carried a Buck 110 on my belt the whole time, but times have changed. Now I don't even go into DC.

Rich
 
Rich S said:
If you're going to any Federal or DC building or museum, don't carry a knife. There are metal detectors everywhere in DC, even on some Metros. Even if you're not going to any of those, be sure to keep your knife in your pocket out of sight (no pocket clips, etc). With all the demonstrations going on in DC, if you should get swept up in one of those by mistake, you're cooked also. Probably better all around just not to carry one in DC - it's like a police state there.

Rich
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I'm not sure where you obtained your info regarding DC Metro stations. I live in the area and take metro on a daily basis.....I've never ever seen or even heard of metal detectors on Metro. Metro Police have the right to randomly search backpacks and/or luggage which is something to keep in mind while using Metro. I EDC several knives over three inches while traveling on Metro....all clipped, and have never had a problem.

To the OP.....if you plan on visiting museums or federal buildings in this area, leave you knife at the hotel or in your vehicle. Don't even carry a multi-tool....it will get confiscated.
 
18 U.S.C. § 930 : US Code - Section 930:
Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities:

2.5" blade or longer is "dangerous weapon", same penalty as carrying gun, should push come to shove.

- OS
 
OhShoot said:
18 U.S.C. § 930 : US Code - Section 930:
Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities:

2.5" blade or longer is "dangerous weapon", same penalty as carrying gun, should push come to shove.

- OS
Click to expand...

WRONG.

18 U.S.C. Sec. 930 does NOT define a knife with a blade over 2 1/2" as a dangerous weapon; it explicitly exempts a knife with a blade under 2 1/2" from the definition of dangerous weapon ("except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 2 1/2 inches in length.) Those are two very different concepts.

Furthermore, the law provides that the restriction does not apply to: "the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes." I work in a Federal facility and there are kitchen knives in the break rooms -- all with blades over 2 1/2".
 
So would a knife with a blade less than 2 1/2" be allowed in federal buildings and museums?
 
2Dead said:
So would a knife with a blade less than 2 1/2" be allowed in federal buildings and museums?
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No, they won't let you bring any kind of blade into the museums. Pretty much the same rules as flying. I personally carry a cheap gas station knife when I go to D.C. and if I go into a museum I stash it somewhere outside.
 
dsvirsky said:
WRONG.

18 U.S.C. Sec. 930 does NOT define a knife with a blade over 2 1/2" as a dangerous weapon; it explicitly exempts a knife with a blade under 2 1/2" from the definition of dangerous weapon ("except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 2 1/2 inches in length.) Those are two very different concepts....
Click to expand...

Law reads:

" The term "dangerous weapon" means a weapon, device,
instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is
used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious
bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket
knife with a blade of less than 2 1/2 inches in length."

I do not see your logic that because pocketknives under 2.5" blade length are exempt from the definition, one carrying a larger knife (or fixed blade knife of any length) could not be easily prosecuted under this definition within the statue. I guess I applaud your optimism but not your legal opinion.

- OS
 
OhShoot said:
Law reads:

" The term "dangerous weapon" means a weapon, device,
instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is
used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious
bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket
knife with a blade of less than 2 1/2 inches in length."

I do not see your logic that because pocketknives under 2.5" blade length are exempt from the definition, one carrying a larger knife (or fixed blade knife of any length) could not be easily prosecuted under this definition within the statue. I guess I applaud your optimism but not your legal opinion.

- OS
Click to expand...

I work on federal property myself (have for almost a decade now). We have signs quoting this law everywhere at every entrance and all entrants are subject to search. Except, I have observed that simply being a knife with a blade over 2.5" does not necessarily make it illegal to bring inside:
-We have 3 food service kitchens, all with large cooking knives and other blades for food prep. I myself brought a 12" carving knife (wrapped and in a bag next to a cake).
-There are maintenance staff and construction workers that carry larger blades for cutting drywall, wire, tape etc.
-We are a medical facility so there are all manner of scalpels, scissors, needles, etc.

What do these items all have in common? They all have specific, non-weapon purposes and those purposes are easily demonstrated. And those purposes are clear and anticipated. Unfortunately, EDC is often not a recognized "anticipated" purpose to law enforcement, because generally speaking you would have a hard time proving a direct need that the knife must be carried for. Yeah, I know, being prepared is good (and I think the law should be different myself) but the laws just don't seem to see it that way.

Now keep in mind, that same statute also allows any facility to make tighter restrictions if they so choose, at their own discretion. Some buildings and museums are strictly no blade whatsoever.
 
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In United States v. Hardy, the US Court for the 7th Circuit Court noted that: "A violation of 18 U.S.C. sec. 930(b), . . . requires the government to prove that a defendant knowingly possessed a dangerous weapon in a federal facility and that he did so with the intent to use the weapon in the commission of a crime."

FWIW, I first posted the above, here on BladeForums, back in January 2001.
 
dsvirsky said:
In United States v. Hardy, the US Court for the 7th Circuit Court noted that: "A violation of 18 U.S.C. sec. 930(b), . . . requires the government to prove that a defendant knowingly possessed a dangerous weapon in a federal facility and that he did so with the intent to use the weapon in the commission of a crime."

FWIW, I first posted the above, here on BladeForums, back in January 2001.
Click to expand...

That makes perfect sense based on my previously mentioned observations.
 
I brought my Case/Bose dogleg jack and managed to evade all secret police and government forces while in D.C. :thumbup: Thanks to all who contributed to the thread.
 
dsvirsky said:
In United States v. Hardy, the US Court for the 7th Circuit Court noted that: "A violation of 18 U.S.C. sec. 930(b), . . . requires the government to prove that a defendant knowingly possessed a dangerous weapon in a federal facility and that he did so with the intent to use the weapon in the commission of a crime."

FWIW, I first posted the above, here on BladeForums, back in January 2001.
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We're not talking at section B, only possession under section A; this whole thread is about possession only:

"(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly
possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous
weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility),
or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned
not more than 1 year, or both."

The case law you cited is non sequitur to that. It was clarification (actually just reiteration) of section b:

"(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon
be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes
to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal
facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or
imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."

- OS
 
You can lead a horse to water . . .

Read the 1st Circuit Court's November 2001 decision in US vs. Murray (No. 01-1065) and ask yourself why the judge bothered to include the footnote regarding the "lawful purpose" exception in § 930(d), if it didn't apply to § 930(a).    
 
dsvirsky said:
You can lead a horse to water . . .

Read the 1st Circuit Court's November 2001 decision in US vs. Murray (No. 01-1065) and ask yourself why the judge bothered to include the footnote regarding the "lawful purpose" exception in § 930(d), if it didn't apply to § 930(a).    
Click to expand...

You've convinced me. I'll start carrying my machete to all federal buildings, since I have no intention of using it for a crime.

- OS
 
After doing a little informal checking on the internet, I've come to the conclusion that just about anything more dangerous than loose change is going to keep you out of most public buildings in Washington. Even the Victorinox Jetsetter and the Leatherman PS, both perfectly legal on any flight, are illegal due to scissors, screwdrivers, or some other stupid thing. This goes far beyond security, all the way to paranoia, and maybe into the fringes of tyranny.
 
I lived in DC for the past year and carried various folding knives on my person daily, often employing a pocket clip. It's no problem on Metro or other public transit - no metal detectors or searches there. My work takes me into the U.S. Capitol on occasion, and on those trips I leave all knives at home, obviously. Museums are hit or miss. I got turned away from Air & Space once because I was carrying a Victorinox Farmer. Same day, down the street, a guard at another museum let me in with the same knife. But to be safe, don't plan on carrying a knife into any DC museums.

The district's knife laws are actually pretty lenient. I can legally own and carry virtually any knife, fixed or folding -- yes, including a machete -- except a switchblade. It's when you cross into federal rules -- at museums and US gov't buildings -- that problems arise.
 
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