D2

C

catfish579

Joined
Jan 8, 2013
Messages
166
hello all. this is just a quick little question. im looking at a magazine and it mentions D2 tool steel and then just D2. both are at a different Rc hardness, just by a little but the fact they are different raises a question for me: is there a difference between D2 and D2 tool steel? im looking at some Queen knives and am saving up for a summer treat and knowing if there is a difference would be a bonus. thank you for the oncoming input- Herbs
 
Rc has to do with heat treatment, not the type of steel. Any steel might be heat treated for more strength (lower Rc) or longer lasting edge (higher Rc). This is a drastic oversimplification but gives the basics.
 
catfish579 said:
so same steel could just be treated a little differently but still considered same?
Click to expand...

Exactly. The steel is just part of what makes a knife cut. Heat treatment, blade geometry, and blade shape all play a role in a knife's effectiveness.

- Christian
 
Before buying my first D2 knife from Queen about 7 or so years ago, I did a lot of looking at the steel to try to figure out what it was. I read a lot about it and there is more information than can be read on this particular metal as it has been around and in use now for at least a half century.

On article I read said that it was developed for the heavy manufacturing industries (such as the auto guys) for their blanking and stamping processes used in making doors, hoods, trunks, bumpers, etc. It was developed as a tool steel in the sense that even if it is used in a 100 ton press dies that pound out car parts, that press is considered a tool, as are the dies in it by the machinists that use it.

So in essence, my understanding (check out the link) that D2 started out its life as a tool and die steel and through various heat treats and experimentation wound up as a cutlery steel. This is as opposed to the steels that were developed specifically at the request of blade makers that needed steel for razor blades, shears, etc., that wound up in the hands of knife makers. So D2 is a tool steel, and D2 is just D2.

http://www.diehlsteel.com/products/d-2.html?gclid=CO3o0vbejrgCFVRk7AodNBgAXQ

I don't know when Queen started using D2, but I am hoping they stay with it. Unlike others, I don't have any trouble sharpening it with my regular equipment. This is good as all the Queens I have with D2 except one required major edge rebeveling. D2 holds an edge very well, and is pretty dang rust resistant in my sweaty pockets which makes it lovely for the traditional pattern I like. I like D2 enough I now have several more knives in D2, including knives from other manufacturers such as Kershaw and Ontario. It's good stuff.

Robert
 
The term "D2" is a designation by the American Iron and Steel Institute (AISI) for a steel alloy with a specific composition. As long as the steel has that composition, it meets the specification and is called "D2". Hardness is not part of the specification requirements.

D2 is classified as a "tool steel".

Fig238_3.jpg
 
i have to get more paper to write this stuff down! appreciate the information that you guys provide.
 
Along the same lines, if you have a smart phone download the knife steel app. It gives you lots of information about the different steels used in knives. Interesting stuff!
 
Here are a few links for you to read through. Read all of them, then come back and ask more questions. Steel can be confusing and the terminology is totally different than anything most people talk about every day. Sometimes you are going to have to just take stuff at face value and figure out the details later when you have the knowledge for them to make sense. It will start to make sense, I promise.

http://info.lu.farmingdale.edu/depts/met/met205/toolsteels.html

http://info.lu.farmingdale.edu/depts/met/met205/alloyingeffect.html

http://info.lu.farmingdale.edu/depts/met/met205/carboneffect.html
 
Also, here are a couple other things to think about:

1. Geometry makes a knife cut, heat treat determines how long.
2. Thickness of blade stock makes a knife flexible (thick-stiff, thin-flexible), heat treat (hardness) only determines whether the blade breaks or takes a set once it reaches the elastic limit. Fillet knives can be very hard, but still be very flexible.
 
My experience with D2 is like with wine. At first I wasn't sure....what's all the fuss and the effort about? That soon changed, now, like wine, it's one of my favourites.:D:D

I had a week-end session D2 sharpening on diamonds.It certainly still takes me some effort and time with a new knife, but once you get them there it's well worth it as it really can do some cutting! Nor does it impart flavour like carbon can, I like to fix snacks fruits,cheese sausage etc with my knife so that aspect is important. No rust or oiling worries either. All Queen need to do is make some D2 knives with stainless or NS liners....no contest.:thumbup:
 
medicevans said:
Also, here are a couple other things to think about:

1. Geometry makes a knife cut, heat treat determines how long.
2. Thickness of blade stock makes a knife flexible (thick-stiff, thin-flexible), heat treat (hardness) only determines whether the blade breaks or takes a set once it reaches the elastic limit. Fillet knives can be very hard, but still be very flexible.
Click to expand...

Over the years, I have learned a lot about steels and their uses, and in the past few years of reading BF I decided I didn't really know as much as I thought I did. All you said is completely true!

I have never been a slave to owning the newest super steels and I am sure glad I didn't go though that phase. So much of a knife's utility value to me is how well it cuts, how easy it is to maintain, and as you said, the geometry (or design) of the actual blade.

Some makers take the time and make the effort to get all they can out of steels, and some seem content to simply brand their blades with the type of steel thinking it will carry the day. With the internet, we can easily look up makers, manufacturers and even specific models of knives to find out their actual performance.

With what I have learned on BF, I can look at the knives I find appealing and know at this point how to match up the steel to the job. Until I read some lengthy explanations in the maker's forums and then saw their claims of performance backed up by actual users, I would never have believed how important careful, exacting heat treatment can be to steel performance.

Robert
 
Heat treating is an exacting science for sure! I send all my stuff to Peter's Heat Treating in PA. I can call up Brad Stallsmith and he'll talk to me and discuss exactly what I want out of my blades. I use A2 exclusively, and I'm really liking how this non-super steel performs with a great heat treat.
 
medicevans said:
Heat treating is an exacting science for sure! I send all my stuff to Peter's Heat Treating in PA. I can call up Brad Stallsmith and he'll talk to me and discuss exactly what I want out of my blades. I use A2 exclusively, and I'm really liking how this non-super steel performs with a great heat treat.
Click to expand...

Queen uses Peters to heat treat their D2 blades. The tang stamp on the Queen D2 main blades includes the designation PH-D2 to designate Peters Heat Treat.
 
Just to confuse matters, there's also cpm-d2. That's the powdered steel version that Crucible makes. The powder process allows even distribution of the particles, and it's also said to be a cleaner form of steel.

In any case, if it's Queen it's not cpm, but just something to remember if you decide that you want to buy other knives using the stuff.

As far as outsourced heat treat goes, I've heard nothing but rave reviews about Peters. :)
 
cilohaefink said:
Queen uses Peters to heat treat their D2 blades. The tang stamp on the Queen D2 main blades includes the designation PH-D2 to designate Peters Heat Treat.
Click to expand...

I have seen this statement before, but authoritative evidence is that PH-D2 stands for Precipitation Hardened D2.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top