Dadley and more Dadley

[Henry Beige]

A couple of times in recent months I have come across mentions of the Russell Green River Dadley knife, thought to be a precursor to Horace Kephart’s design. Scrteened Porch was the most recent to bring it up. His posts prompted me to go looking for one last week.

In placing the order, somehow signals got crossed, and what I got was not quite what I expected. Instead of a Russell Green River knife, with its familiar coarsely checkered beechwood handle, what arrived was the knife below. The etch on the blade reads
Sheffield
L Adams Ltd
England.
No mention of Dexter Russell or Green River. Nevertheless, it was a pleasant surprise.

The handle is smooth hardwood with a glossy finish; no need to sand to avoid splinters or hotspots. The knife is decidedly right-handed: the swedge and the scallops on the spine appear only on the display side of the plade. The off side is flat and blank. The handle has finger grooves only on one side, for a right hander.

The knife came with a pretty nice leather sheath, not mentioned in the sale listing. The belt loop is unusable, but I would never wear it on my belt anyway. The fit is nice and close, so a guy could easily drop the knife into a pocket, or carry it in a pack.

I promptly made an order for the correct Russell knife, but I’m going to keep this one, too.

So here’s the question: what’s the deal with the scallops on the spine? I will see if I can track down an answer, but if anybody knows, or even has a theory, I would be grateful to hear it.

 

[Jack Black]

That's a 'J' rather than an 'L' Henry, and the 'J' stands for 'Jack'. Jack Adams started work, under his father George, in 1942. Sadly, he passed away in 2017, after a long illness, but was still working before its onset. Jack's company survive, and make a large range of fixed-blade and trade knives under several names, including J. Nowill & Sons. They sell that knife as a 'Green River Knife (Deck Knife)', and it is available inexpensively, with both a carbon and stainless blades. I can't see it in their current range, but they certainly used to produce that knife without the jimping. I think it is probably there to fancy the knife up a bit for their yachting customers, rather than for practical reasons, and I commonly see it applied like that (on one edge of the spine) on Sheffield knives. It may add some purchase as a 'thumb ramp', but I think if that was its primary purpose, it would be on the spine of the knife. I guess, in some grips, it would be useful though

 

[Mikael W]

Dadley's are meant as multi-purpose working knives and the jimping is probably there for better grip, with the fingers out on the blade.
I'm very fond of the Northern European version (without jimping), wich is a mix between a Dadley and a butcherknife.
I recently received a full custom from Horsewright in AEB-L and it is in use as an allround working knife in the household.
The main intention is to use it onboard my boat next summer, as they are marketed here mainly as a Seaman's knife.
This is the third Dadley we have in the house and the cheapest one is used on a daily basis in the kitchen.

The custom has passed all sorts of tests from light duty to splitting firewood and it does everything and still hold the edge.

Plain but very useful.
A word about the sheath:
Original models are often made simple and of thin leather.
Dave followed the pattern I sent him, but his version in comparision, is almost bulletproof!


Regards
Mikael

 

[Rockon75]

Bark River ran a Dadley, here is the info from that run (thanks KSF website):

Bark River Knives: Custom Dadley
These products have been heavily discounted, so no returns are allowed. The full manufacturer's lifetime warranty still applies.

The Dadley was one of the most common knives used during the North American mountian man period of exploration and expansion in both the U.S. and Canada. It was originally designed by John Dadley in Sheffield and he was recruited by John Russell of the Green River Knife Company and moved here to the States. This is actually the root knife of the famed outdoor knife designed in by Horace Kephart that we all now refer to as the Kephart. You can see the similarity instantly. Our special release of the knife is in modern CPM-3V and is about the same thickness as the original. These are .093" thick.

Speicifcations:

Overall Length: 10"
Blade Length: 5.5"
Blade Thickness: .093"
Blade Steel: CPM 3V @ 58-60RC
Weight: 5.5oz.
Price: Starting at $150.02


Made in the USA.

High-quality leather sheath included.

 

[Rockon75]

Here is another Dadley run by Bark River. The Mountain Man Dadley. This one has the serrations. Thanks KSF.

 

[screened porch]

In that thread Henry Beige refers to, there was some discussion of why the funny stuff on the back of the blade, and nobody had an answer anybody liked.
I wonder if it would be useful in stripping the hair off a pelt. You probably wouldn't trap fur in order to strip the hair off, but you do remove the hair of buckskin.
But then my old ones don't have the funny stuff, so maybe somebody thought it looked cool and it caught on.
I have a little town pattern(?) Sheffield Bowie with bigger scallops on the same side of the back, and I can't think of a use for them either.

 

[Rockon75]

From knife news, but still doesn't come right out and say what they are for (Bark River Interview):

A historical bent has always been an important element in the Mountain Man lineup, and the Dadley variant is no exception. Its blade is a very traditional, linear spear point, running just a tad shorter than the 5 with a blade length of 5.45 inches. The cuts on the spine mimic the patterned teeth on the 19th century fixed blade knives sold by early American cutlers and carried by real life mountain men and other adventurers.

 

[Rockon75]

Another forum, same question on the "jimping"...

I've been tracking down the word, and the practice where knives are concerned.
Without getting long winded, the word jimp comes from the Scots and basically means "fancy" (clothes, appearance, etc.). The Scottish dirks had jimping on them, and it was only for decoration.
Some people claim that the groves are for traction of the thumb along the spine of the blade, but that appears to be speculation, or hearsay.

 

[Rockon75]

This knife was symmetrical, so maybe this is a reason....

"You mentioned being able to find the edge in the dark. But can think of a very unglamorous reason to put the jimping on the knives I see in the pictures.
If you are going to design a knife with a symmetrical blade like a dagger, but then only sharpen one edge, it makes for a quick visual reference if the non-cutting edge is marked somehow.

I have a paring knife in the kitchen that is perfectly symmetrical. It has a very thin convex grind on one edge. I don't know how many times I started to cut something with it, and when it wasn't working realized I had it "upside down". Now I think I'll go get it and file a couple notches on the dull edge, and call it "jimping"......

 

[Jack Black]

Very interesting discussion, I want to hurry home so I can contribute to it (useless on my phone)!

 

[Rockon75]

further comment from another forum regarding the scallops.

………" I can verify what was said above about the file-work or scalloping on the spines; if you use a spear-pointed blade very much, you appreciate a visual reminder of which edge you're about to cut with. "

 

[screened porch]

The cuts on the spine mimic the patterned teeth on the 19th century fixed blade knives sold by early American cutlers and carried by real life mountain men and other adventurers.

It would be nice to know his evidence for this.

 

[screened porch]

you appreciate a visual reminder of which edge you're about to cut with. "

Especially with a symmetrical handle.

 

[Rockon75]

It would be nice to know his evidence for this.

I agree, just what I found from a search. With the handle and blade being a mirror image, I can imagine the usefulness of an easy way to identify the working side.

 

[Rich S]

Russell Dexter Co. still makes and sells this knife ($23). Sheath is extra.
Rich

 

[Horsewright]

Dadley's are meant as multi-purpose working knives and the jimping is probably there for better grip, with the fingers out on the blade.
I'm very fond of the Northern European version (without jimping), wich is a mix between a Dadley and a butcherknife.
I recently received a full custom from Horsewright in AEB-L and it is in use as an allround working knife in the household.
The main intention is to use it onboard my boat next summer, as they are marketed here mainly as a Seaman's knife.
This is the third Dadley we have in the house and the cheapest one is used on a daily basis in the kitchen.

The custom has passed all sorts of tests from light duty to splitting firewood and it does everything and still hold the edge.
View attachment 1250668
Plain but very useful.
A word about the sheath:
Original models are often made simple and of thin leather.
Dave followed the pattern I sent him, but his version in comparision, is almost bulletproof!
View attachment 1250669

Regards
Mikael

Good deal! Sure glad that knife is working out for ya!

 

[Jack Black]

It was originally designed by John Dadley in Sheffield and he was recruited by John Russell of the Green River Knife Company and moved here to the States.

I was very interested to read this when someone posted it the other day. It seems to me if it is true, those Green Rivers cutlers must have been pretty useless if they had to import a feller from Sheffield to show them how to make an incredibly simple and unpatented pattern, which had been available on the American continent for many years before, and in large numbers. I've read many threads over the years about this pattern, and while they've often contained a certain amount of inaccuracy and speculation, I don't recall anyone coming up with such a convenient piece of history before. I'm not saying it's total rubbish, but I've just checked several primary sources, and I'm yet to find any mention of a single Sheffield cutler named Dadley. I'll keep looking, but he doesn't appear to have been registered with the Company of Cutlers in Sheffield, which keep records almost going back to the beginning of time. While numerous Sheffield knife innovations quickly spread around the city, very, very few knives are named for their designer. The Barlow knife is an obvious exception, but mountains of rubbish have been written about the supposed history of that pattern (likewise the Bowie), and early Barlows look nothing like the Barlow pattern we know today. I suspect the Dadley pattern is a very old one, and precedes Green River by a long way.

Another forum, same question on the "jimping"...

I've been tracking down the word, and the practice where knives are concerned.
Without getting long winded, the word jimp comes from the Scots and basically means "fancy" (clothes, appearance, etc.). The Scottish dirks had jimping on them, and it was only for decoration.
Some people claim that the groves are for traction of the thumb along the spine of the blade, but that appears to be speculation, or hearsay.

I don't know about the etymology of the word, but Sheffield cutlers have been adding jimping to Scottish Dirks, Sgian Dubhs, and Bowies of all types for decades, (it is often halfway down the spine rather than near the ricasso). They have the tools, and the skill, and adding some fancy means you can charge a bit more from the tourists and wedding parties who primarily buy the Scottish knives, whose form may have more to do with the bonnet-wringing lickspittle Sir Walter Scott than historical accuracy. With the Dadley, I suspect that one of the main reasons it was so common is that it is a simple, useful CHEAP knife. Cheap because it is easy to manufacture, and I doubt any self-respecting mountain man would have needed jimping to tell him which way round his knife was, or want to be laughed out of the saloon for having a Pansy Knife!

This knife was symmetrical, so maybe this is a reason....

"You mentioned being able to find the edge in the dark. But can think of a very unglamorous reason to put the jimping on the knives I see in the pictures.
If you are going to design a knife with a symmetrical blade like a dagger, but then only sharpen one edge, it makes for a quick visual reference if the non-cutting edge is marked somehow.

I have a paring knife in the kitchen that is perfectly symmetrical. It has a very thin convex grind on one edge. I don't know how many times I started to cut something with it, and when it wasn't working realized I had it "upside down". Now I think I'll go get it and file a couple notches on the dull edge, and call it "jimping"......

I have knives like that in my kitchen drawer too, and while I don't recall ever trying to cut with the spine, I can see how it could happen if you weren't paying attention. It's entirely different with a sheath knife though, you draw the knife with your hand already on the handle, you know exactly where the edge is because you always put your knife in the sheath with the edge to the rear.

It would be nice to know his evidence for this.

I have a large library of knife-related books, and I'd say at least 50% of them contain a fair bit of nonsense, because unfortunately, the authors didn't bother to properly research their subject, parroted rubbish they'd read elsewhere, and presented guesswork and wishful thinking as fact. Or they just plain made stuff up. The internet is far worse

Here's an Edwardian knife of the type under discussion, made by Joseph Rodgers & Sons.

And another, probably from the 60's, shown above a Joseph Elliott Butcher's Knife.

A recent production Whittle-Tang Bowie by A.Wright & Son.

A recent production Sgian Dubh by the same firm.

Here's a knife dated to 1530. Early Dadley?

 

[Sidehill Gouger]

The Dadley pattern may have been around for a long time but the name is recent. Try to find a knife called a "Dadley" in a 19th century American cutlery catalog.

 

[Mikael W]

Checking the jimping on one of the oldie's in the kitchen drawer, a Solingen made clippoint. I'm now leaning towards it's purely for looks.

Regards
Mikael

 

[John A. Larsen]

• Looks a lot like what is sold as a German Sailor fixed blade. John