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Damascus - Bring out the pattern
- Thread starter 762fmj
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2007
- Messages
- 3,375
It depends on the damascus alloys a bit. Stainlees damascus takes a stronger acid. I assume you do not have stainless. A mix of nickel and high carbon is common or nickel alloy like 15n20 and 1095 is very common. The nickel alloys etch slower and remain brighter than the straight carbon alloys. I use a mixture of Ferric Chloride (FC) (available at some Radio Shacks and many electronics suppliers and repair shops) It is used by them to etch copper circuit boards. I mix mine 1 cup FC, 1 cup distilled water and 1 cup white vinegar. Some use 1 FC to 2 water. Either works. Use plastic electrical tape to mask of anything you do not want etched. Scales guards etc. Soak the piece in the mix for about 10 minutes then remove and while flushing in tap water lightly scrub with a scotch bright pad. Repeat soaks and rinses until you have the depth you desire. Then you can buff till it is all shiny and use the depth of etch as your display contrast or as I often do just buff a bit and the nickel alloy will brighten and the high carbon remain darker.
You can also using bluing to set off the pattern. It will not work as well on the nickel alloy as the high carbon and set off the pattern. Pure nickel will not color hardly at all. Cold blue will work applied repeatedly especially if the piece is warmed before applying. follow the directions. If you don't like it buff it off.
Another thing you can do with pure nickel and high carbon is use heat to color. Protect the edge from temps over about 400 f by keeping pressed on a wet rag and apply a small torch to the spine of the piece and as it heats it will color, first straw yellow then blues. The yellow is fine near the edge, but, the blue will soften the steel and you will lose your edge holding ability with high carbon. Be careful and when the blue starts to run towards the edge dunk the piece in water. Remember the edge is thin and will heat rapidly.
Good luck Jim
You can also using bluing to set off the pattern. It will not work as well on the nickel alloy as the high carbon and set off the pattern. Pure nickel will not color hardly at all. Cold blue will work applied repeatedly especially if the piece is warmed before applying. follow the directions. If you don't like it buff it off.
Another thing you can do with pure nickel and high carbon is use heat to color. Protect the edge from temps over about 400 f by keeping pressed on a wet rag and apply a small torch to the spine of the piece and as it heats it will color, first straw yellow then blues. The yellow is fine near the edge, but, the blue will soften the steel and you will lose your edge holding ability with high carbon. Be careful and when the blue starts to run towards the edge dunk the piece in water. Remember the edge is thin and will heat rapidly.
Good luck Jim
I am curently needing to bring out the pattern in a set of damascus shotgun barrels made around 1905. I am not sure what the metal content is. I also have several knives that I have forged which I want to do. They have nickel in them and I figured I'd blue them. I just can't seem to find a whole lot of info on finishing. There's tons on making it. Thanks for your time! I appreciate any input on the barrels. Erik
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2003
- Messages
- 2,361
Most work off the same basic methods with slight variations on the details so you are likely to get many answers that will generally work. Here is my method:
Polish to 800X or 1200X hand rub using a water based fluid for the wet sanding on the final passes, then wipe the blade entirely clean.
Etchant- Radio shack PCB (printed circuit board) etchant, ferric chloride, cut from 1:1 to 1:3 ratio with distilled water. Due to the chemistry and saturation of Fe, the water is essential; the stuff comes in concentrations for etching nonferrous circuit boards not steel so you need to adjust it. You will get some Radio Shacks that will not carry it, it depends on location, the chain as a whole still carries the stuff as I ask every time I buy it if they still do, any branch should be able to order it for you just you cannot yourself due to their hazardous materials policies.
Initially quickly submerge the blade in the solution for about 30 seconds, if you go slow or hold the blade at any point in the submersion it will etch a line where the surface of the liquid was held on the blade.
Remove the blade and check that the etch is entirely smooth and clean with no shiny spots that are masked from the etchant from finger oils or other smears. It is important that you find them now and get rid of them because after around 60 seconds in the etch you will be going back to the sand paper to remove them. I have etched my share of finger prints into blades
.
Wipe the blade clean to of the black film that will begin to form in order to completely inspect it and then thoroughly rinse. Leaving streaks of that black oxide film will also etch nasty lines into your blade.
Go back into the etch for 1 minute and then check it again clean it up, rinse and repeat for a few more minutes. The important thing to remember is several shorter etches are far superior to one long one. Cleaning and inspecting the progress makes for a flawless finish.
Temperature of the etchant has profound effects on the action and I would advise trying to keep the stuff at the same temp so you can get consistency and predictability in your results. Warmer etchant will bit faster, make darker oxides but have a rougher look. It will also form bubbles that will be static and show up it the etched pattern.
Continue etching until you have the relief or "topography" that you desire, I check it with my finger nail between etches. When you get it there, take the blade out and leave the black oxides alone, leave them right where they are at for now. The previous etches are for the relief of the layers, the final etch is for color alone.
Rinse very well, damascus should be less prone to rusting than monosteel, not more! If somebody's damascus rusts easier, they didn't rinse and neutralize properly. You need to cancel out the mild acidic effects and then get rid of all the leftover Cl atoms. I like a dip in tri-sodium phosphate TSP followed by a spritzing with Windex and then pat dry.
The final step in my process is a "secret" the vastly talented Brian Lyttle Shared with me, to give credit where it is due. I prepare a tube or large basin of water big enough to submerge the blade in over some heat. I add around 1 tbs. of baking soda as a further neutralizer (just in case) and then bring it to a boil. I keep the blade in there at a rolling boil for around 15 minutes and then remove an allow to air dry. The boiling converts the existing oxides to even darker ones and sets them very strongly in place so they do not come off in subsequent polishing. The hot blade will dry so quickly that here will be no problems with rust.
Next I use 2000X paper to rub the oxides off all the high spots to get a very white and black contrast, and then I take a few light passes on the buffer to turn the white a mirror silver and give the black a nice sheen. Buffing blades that have not been boiled will quickly give you silver on silver.
Now rub a light oil on the surface and when you wipe away the excess you will take of all the loose oxides and buffer crud and underneath the pattern should jump up and say hello! A final coating of renaissance wax will seal things down an make the blade very maintenance free.
To many this paragraph would be a huge secret that allows them to keep the look of their steel to themselves, but it is all rather simple and good steel comes from the forge not the etch tube.
This is one that is so commonly asked I think I will also add it to my list of topics to address on my web page.
Polish to 800X or 1200X hand rub using a water based fluid for the wet sanding on the final passes, then wipe the blade entirely clean.
Etchant- Radio shack PCB (printed circuit board) etchant, ferric chloride, cut from 1:1 to 1:3 ratio with distilled water. Due to the chemistry and saturation of Fe, the water is essential; the stuff comes in concentrations for etching nonferrous circuit boards not steel so you need to adjust it. You will get some Radio Shacks that will not carry it, it depends on location, the chain as a whole still carries the stuff as I ask every time I buy it if they still do, any branch should be able to order it for you just you cannot yourself due to their hazardous materials policies.
Initially quickly submerge the blade in the solution for about 30 seconds, if you go slow or hold the blade at any point in the submersion it will etch a line where the surface of the liquid was held on the blade.
Remove the blade and check that the etch is entirely smooth and clean with no shiny spots that are masked from the etchant from finger oils or other smears. It is important that you find them now and get rid of them because after around 60 seconds in the etch you will be going back to the sand paper to remove them. I have etched my share of finger prints into blades
. Wipe the blade clean to of the black film that will begin to form in order to completely inspect it and then thoroughly rinse. Leaving streaks of that black oxide film will also etch nasty lines into your blade.
Go back into the etch for 1 minute and then check it again clean it up, rinse and repeat for a few more minutes. The important thing to remember is several shorter etches are far superior to one long one. Cleaning and inspecting the progress makes for a flawless finish.
Temperature of the etchant has profound effects on the action and I would advise trying to keep the stuff at the same temp so you can get consistency and predictability in your results. Warmer etchant will bit faster, make darker oxides but have a rougher look. It will also form bubbles that will be static and show up it the etched pattern.
Continue etching until you have the relief or "topography" that you desire, I check it with my finger nail between etches. When you get it there, take the blade out and leave the black oxides alone, leave them right where they are at for now. The previous etches are for the relief of the layers, the final etch is for color alone.
Rinse very well, damascus should be less prone to rusting than monosteel, not more! If somebody's damascus rusts easier, they didn't rinse and neutralize properly. You need to cancel out the mild acidic effects and then get rid of all the leftover Cl atoms. I like a dip in tri-sodium phosphate TSP followed by a spritzing with Windex and then pat dry.
The final step in my process is a "secret" the vastly talented Brian Lyttle Shared with me, to give credit where it is due. I prepare a tube or large basin of water big enough to submerge the blade in over some heat. I add around 1 tbs. of baking soda as a further neutralizer (just in case) and then bring it to a boil. I keep the blade in there at a rolling boil for around 15 minutes and then remove an allow to air dry. The boiling converts the existing oxides to even darker ones and sets them very strongly in place so they do not come off in subsequent polishing. The hot blade will dry so quickly that here will be no problems with rust.
Next I use 2000X paper to rub the oxides off all the high spots to get a very white and black contrast, and then I take a few light passes on the buffer to turn the white a mirror silver and give the black a nice sheen. Buffing blades that have not been boiled will quickly give you silver on silver
.Now rub a light oil on the surface and when you wipe away the excess you will take of all the loose oxides and buffer crud and underneath the pattern should jump up and say hello! A final coating of renaissance wax will seal things down an make the blade very maintenance free.
To many this paragraph would be a huge secret that allows them to keep the look of their steel to themselves, but it is all rather simple and good steel comes from the forge not the etch tube.
This is one that is so commonly asked I think I will also add it to my list of topics to address on my web page.
Thanks for all the time you have spent in helping the cause! I will definitely heed your cautions and will give it a test before attempting the real deal. Thanks again, Erik
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2007
- Messages
- 3,375
As always Kevin is a better source and has so much detail and extra tips. Thanks for the last paragraph I will be trying than and adding it to my next etch job. Jim
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2006
- Messages
- 99
"The final step in my process is a "secret" the vastly talented Brian Lyttle Shared with me, to give credit where it is due. I prepare a tube or large basin of water big enough to submerge the blade in over some heat. I add around 1 tbs. of baking soda as a further neutralizer (just in case) and then bring it to a boil. I keep the blade in there at a rolling boil for around 15 minutes and then remove an allow to air dry. The boiling converts the existing oxides to even darker ones and sets them very strongly in place so they do not come off in subsequent polishing. The hot blade will dry so quickly that here will be no problems with rust."
Sounds like the final step in a peroxide/salt salt bath to give a blade a black finish. I was wondering if this would work on Damascus.
Sounds like the final step in a peroxide/salt salt bath to give a blade a black finish. I was wondering if this would work on Damascus.
fitzo
Gold Member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2001
- Messages
- 6,648
"And so the little men of the ancient and secretive Damascus Brotherhood met in the dark and gloomy cavern beneath the temple and there plotted turmoil against Cashen, apostate divulger of the timeless mysteries......"
<organ chord splash>
"Join us next week on the Archer Etchant Drama Hour for another exciting episode of Turn of the Blade. And now for a final word from our sponsor."
(organ accompaniment)
"Use Archer Etchant
The best stuff made,
For bringing out
The pattern in your bladesssss!"
<organ outro>
TekSec
Böse Messer
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2006
- Messages
- 2,933
SSSSssssshhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Man, you guys are just giving it all away! It's like Christmas early!!! Thanks, Kevin. I had never heard the boiling tip before and I have found that I get some small rust spots if I don't neutralize fully and that last step should really alleviate that."And so the little men of the ancient and secretive Damascus Brotherhood met in the dark and gloomy cavern beneath the temple and there plotted turmoil against Cashen, apostate divulger of the timeless mysteries......"
<organ chord splash>
"Join us next week on the Archer Etchant Drama Hour for another exciting episode of Turn of the Blade. And now for a final word from our sponsor."
(organ accompaniment)
"Use Archer Etchant
The best stuff made,
For bringing out
The pattern in your bladesssss!"
<organ outro>