Damascus heat treat???

R

ricky_arthur

Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Messages
217
I'm looking to buy some decent quality damascus without breaking the bank. There seems to be 2 different common types 1095 with 15n20 and this...
"This billet is called "Alabama Buckshot". We use (3) layers of 52100, (4) layers of 5160, (3) layers of 203E, and (3) layers of 15N20.

The steel is forged out and folded 5 times to give you 416 layers."
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My question is can this combination be heat treated by me? Or will I need to send it out for heat treat?

I have a propane and coal forge and 2 different quench oils. I get good results from 1095, 5160 and 1084. But 52100 is a new animal for me.

If it is not a good match for my equipment and skill level can someone point me in the right direction. I want to stay away from Pakistani crap type Damascus.

Thanks
 
I have done some Alabama damascus with my propane forge and canola oil with good results. There are heat treat directions for their steel on their website.
 
I think that is because it would only take four words - Alabama Damascus Heat Treatment - and hit search to find your answer. I did it for you:
http://www.alabamadamascussteel.com/servlet/Page?template=privacy

Here is the text on the HT:
HEAT TREATING:

Heat the blade even on both sides till a magnet don’t stick, heat the blade up till it’s the same color all over even, quench in a light weight oil, peanut oil, 10 wt hydraulic oil ect. If you have an oven, take the steel up to 1550 degrees, after blade reaches furnace temperature, allow the blade to soak for at least two minutes at that temperature, then quickly Quench in 10 weight oil, peanut oil, blade tip first, do not swirl blade in oil.

Temper or draw:

Heat oven up to 350 degrees, and then after 1 hour turn off the oven and let the blades cool down to room temperature, draw again if you wish for a double draw. Some folks chose not to draw the steel but its seems to etch more better if you do, or so it does for me.
 
bladsmth said:
I think that is because it would only take four words - Alabama Damascus Heat Treatment - and hit search to find your answer. I did it for you:
http://www.alabamadamascussteel.com/servlet/Page?template=privacy

Here is the text on the HT:
HEAT TREATING:

Heat the blade even on both sides till a magnet don’t stick, heat the blade up till it’s the same color all over even, quench in a light weight oil, peanut oil, 10 wt hydraulic oil ect. If you have an oven, take the steel up to 1550 degrees, after blade reaches furnace temperature, allow the blade to soak for at least two minutes at that temperature, then quickly Quench in 10 weight oil, peanut oil, blade tip first, do not swirl blade in oil.

Temper or draw:

Heat oven up to 350 degrees, and then after 1 hour turn off the oven and let the blades cool down to room temperature, draw again if you wish for a double draw. Some folks chose not to draw the steel but its seems to etch more better if you do, or so it does for me.
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Thanks for your help. If you could see a screen shot of my monitor you would see those exact words in the search engine. I tried it multiple times, nothing like that came up. I searched it at work and then again at home, AVG search engine must suck. I also typed the words heat treat into Alabama Damascus website search window and it came back "no results"

Isn't that what this forum is here for? Bladesmith questions and answers forum?... To ask and receive answers? I must be mistaken, but that is what I thought.

I spent well over an hour researching it and read enough to know that 52100 is finicky at best to heat treat but done right will make very good blade steel, but nowhere did I find any specific instructions. I will order some and try it out.

Thanks again for your help.

The other 90+ people who looked and moved on..., I'm finding the knife making community different than I thought it would be. Oh well. :(
 
ricky_arthur said:
The other 90+ people who looked and moved on..., I'm finding the knife making community different than I thought it would be. Oh well. :(
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Don't be that way, many here are very willing and helpful. Alabama damascus comes with the HT instructions. Many or none of the 90 may never have used it. I have done it but, away from home and even there would not know where the sheet is. I don't use a forge, don't know if you are 18 or 68, if you have done 20 or 2000 knives, if you have a controlled forge or even any kind of equipment to read temps, just that you have a forge. If I waas home and you lived nearby I may have had you over to my shop. I have done peoples HT for free. People have done many good things for me here. You are asking for information when you are not even willing to make the effort to tell us anything about yourself. Sorry, for the rant, but, your comment does not set well.
 
ib2v4u said:
Don't be that way, many here are very willing and helpful. Alabama damascus comes with the HT instructions. Many or none of the 90 may never have used it. I have done it but, away from home and even there would not know where the sheet is. I don't use a forge, don't know if you are 18 or 68, if you have done 20 or 2000 knives, if you have a controlled forge or even any kind of equipment to read temps, just that you have a forge. If I waas home and you lived nearby I may have had you over to my shop. I have done peoples HT for free. People have done many good things for me here. You are asking for information when you are not even willing to make the effort to tell us anything about yourself. Sorry, for the rant, but, your comment does not set well.
Click to expand...


It may not set well, but that doesn't make it incorrect. That comment wasn't based on this one question alone. Although it could. I got 2 comments and both came with a lecture barely related to the question.

The first implied I was too lazy to do a simple search. Not true, as I outlined above. Besides that, Do we only give help if the information is not available elsewhere? I happen to be moderately computer savvy, but did not turn up the information I was looking for, thus the question.

Yours implied I did not give enough information for my question to be answered. Did you read my original post? I stated I have 2 forges. That means I heat treat in a forge. I stated I have produced good results with my current equipment in 1095, 5160 and 1084. That should tell you I've done a few blades at least. My question was simply is This type of Damascus heat treatable with basic equipment? There was more than enough info to give an answer to that question.

It turns out that according to the instructions above it should be. If it turned out that it was not, I simply asked if there was a source of Damascus that would be better suited.

The comment was based on my observations here over several weeks. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but that is my impression so far. This site so far as i can tell is made up of 99% browsers. It can be frustrating at times. I see so many posts with views into the 1000+ with single digit responses. I guess I don't understand it. I try to comment or answer whenever I can.
 
Last edited:
Lets try again:
Welcome to Shop Talk. A good way to search for things discussed here is to use this search engine:
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra
Put it in your browser to look up any previous discussion on bladeforums.
Filling out your profile will help us help you. An answer can be better tailored when we know where you live, you age, and your skills and interests.
The stickies have a lot of good general info and excellent HT and metallurgy threads and discussions.



I did not mean to sound like I was lecturing you. I was explaining why many may have looked and moved on. You just joined, have not filled out your profile, and no one knows whether you are 15 or 60. Many younger members only use an I-phone, and can't see as much text, or search as well as others can on a PC. This makes many just not reply to what seems a question with an easily found answer. Filling out your profile may have helped.

All I did was type those words in my browser bar and hit return to get the link.
If looking directly on Alabama Damascus' website, yes, it is hard to find. Look under "Service" and then under Damascus Etching Process.

The 52100 in the damascus will be well modified by diffusion in the manufacture of the damascus. The final product heat treats pretty simple. Just use a high enough austenitization temp ( 1500-1550) and a reasonable soak time ( 2-10 minutes) to get the alloy ingredients into solution. As you can tell by the write up and how the web site works, Brad and Lacy are metal mashers, not web geeks :D

I know Brad and Lacy, and they can help you with any questions about your steel. Call them or send an email and one or the other will get back to you. I have used hundreds of pounds of their steel. It is good for the price. There are problems with bad welds and delaminations from time to time, but they will replace any piece that is bad.

With damascus, it usually is a "you get what you pay for" thing. The better the stuff is made, ands the more detailed the pattern, the higher the price. Several good members here sell their damascus in The Exchange.
 
Thank you Bladsmth, Now I feel welcome. :) I had sent Alabama Damascus a question (before I posted here), but have not yet recieved an answer. Your post answered my questions and I appreciate it. I will look in the exchange and also fill out some info in my profile. The last piece of Damascus someone brought me and asked me to make a knife out of left me very unimpressed, I'm pretty sure it was Pakistani crap. So I'm trying to do some homework and start with some better Damascus. I will either buy some from the exchange or get some from Alabama Damascus.

Thanks
Ricky
 
All the knife parts and materials catalog/online suppliers carry damascus, too. Jantz, TKS, USA Knifemakers, Alpha, etc.

It is a bit pricey, but Chad Nichols stainless damascus is really nice for a top grade blade. Not exactly a newbie material - it runs about $15 an inch. The two patterns of his that look best on a finished blade are the ladder and scrambled eggs patterns.
 
Forum is double p[osting again......Fingers crossed that it isn't as bad as the last week.
 
Hey Ricky. This is my first time coming across this post. I've used ADS for several knives in different patterns and it always turned out well. I also have a propane forge and I heat it up to recommended temps and hold it there for a few minutes.

I did have a problem getting a areal nice finish on the blades after etching. I seemed I was "wiping off" my pattern! I solved this by sanding the blade up to 1200 grit before etching. Once I etched the blades to the desired finish I wanted, I then rinsed them off real good with very warm/slightly hot water. I then dipped them into some water that had baking soda. Once dry, I used Strike Hold to finish 'em up. On my first blade, I used WD-40 but had poor results. Lacy told me in an email that WD-40 removed too much oxidation, but they still recommend it in their online instructions. Go figure. But once I switched to Strike Hold, my problems went away.
 
I usually etch with ferric chloride and etch my damascus for quite a while, then put it in boiling water for 30 minutes or so, then when cool I use something like 1200 grit paper with a rigid backing. The boiling part helps to fix the darker high carbon areas of the damscus, those are also the areas where the etch removes the most metal. Then the high grit sanding with the rigid backing only sands and shines up the high spots which are the ones containing nickel and chrome. This helps set the damascus pattern off. Then I use a quality gun oil on the blade. Warming the blade up while oiling helps. The heavier etch making the dark high carbon areas lower and keeps them from polishing out in use. Another good way to show off the pattern is to get some Plum Brown solution from Birchwood Casey. It is available at many gun shops and I think USA Knifemakers. To apply you warm the steel to about 300f in an oven and apply with cotton swabs. It sizzles as you apply. You can reheat and apply several coats and rub it lightly with some steel wool between coats. Then do the high grit sand with a backing. Gives the high carbon areas a nice brown color with a bit of purple. Seems to be pretty durable too, unlike regular cold blue.
 
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