Damascus knives are there any advantages

How do you feel about damascus steel

  • It is inferior to many modern blade steels

    Votes: 35 30.2%

  • When done right it is a great performing and attractive option

    Votes: 65 56.0%

  • The risk of hidden inclusions or weld failure is a big concern

    Votes: 7 6.0%

  • I don't care about the steel, it is the design and geometry of the knife that matters most

    Votes: 9 7.8%
  • Total voters
    116
not2sharp

not2sharp

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Messages
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I have been collecting for a long time and can remember back when damascus was considered a magical steel. That was long before the flood of cheap Pakistani and India made stuff associated the steel type with junk in most peoples minds. There is no denying that it is an attractive blade treatment, which when done right can result in good blades. But, I find it harder to say that it is any better than forging a knife from a good quality homogenous blade stock.

we haven't visited this topic in some time. Let us know how you feel about Damascus steel.

n2s
 
The original "Damascus" steel was magical. It was hard to produce, but it had good qualities. The art has been found again, but it is still difficult to produce. The patterns were made naturally because of the vanadium content in the steel I believe. Beautiful blades. Wonder how they sharpened then without diamond stones? :D

As for modern pattern welded steel Damascus, I'm not a fan. It makes pretty blades but I prefer a homogeneous look. I'm sure it functions just fine, because the steels used are excellent (aside from cheap Pakistani Damascus). Just an aesthetic choice.
 
I feel like the difference between "Damascus", "pattern-welded", and "Wootz"/"watered steel" should be more widely known.

Saying that a knife is made of "damascus" steel is like saying something is "organic": there's no standard, and hardly even any consensus, about what that means. Damascus steel can come from the Damascus region, it can be a 15n20/1095 pattern-welded billet, or it can be whatever the seller wants it to be.

Properly done pattern-welded steel is interesting to look at, and offers a good combination of toughness and edge hardness, although I don't know if there has ever been a reliable comparison between a proper pattern weld and modern stainless. The problem is that it's difficult for the novice enthusiast to tell if it's been properly done.
 
soc_monki said:
The original "Damascus" steel was magical. It was hard to produce, but it had good qualities. The art has been found again, but it is still difficult to produce. The patterns were made naturally because of the vanadium content in the steel I believe. Beautiful blades. Wonder how they sharpened then without diamond stones? :D

As for modern pattern welded steel Damascus, I'm not a fan. It makes pretty blades but I prefer a homogeneous look. I'm sure it functions just fine, because the steels used are excellent (aside from cheap Pakistani Damascus). Just an aesthetic choice.
Click to expand...
Spoiler Alert. It was sharpened on available stones like all other blades were then.

Now I'm no big city science talking guy but what would that lead us to believe about that 13th century super steel compared to today's super steels?
 
Damascus is pretty if done well, but I don't think it has any advantages over today's steels. Larrin's new book Knife Engineering has an interesting chapter on the topic.
 
I agree, pretty but IMHO no real advantages over modern steels.

I have one knife in it that was a gift but since it's a fixed blade I rarely carry it. Matter of fact it's on my western gun holster more for jewelry than anything.
 
:) It's art . Some are very beautiful . Even those cheap wall hangers .

But a good quality functional Damascus will be expensive and not better performing . :(
 
Danke42 said:
Spoiler Alert. It was sharpened on available stones like all other blades were then.

Now I'm no big city science talking guy but what would that lead us to believe about that 13th century super steel compared to today's super steels?
Click to expand...
They had better stones back then?
 
Please stop comparing pattern-welded Damascus to “modern steels.” Those are not opposites. Pattern welding is using two or more steels in combination after diffusion bonding. It is a process not a steel. You can use old steel, good steel, bad steel, modern steel, etc. in your Damascus. Another way to look at it is as a composite steel. The quality of any composite would be based on the materials used, the quality of the processing, how the composite is constructed, and for what uses the composite is intended.
 
Danke42 said:
Spoiler Alert. It was sharpened on available stones like all other blades were then.

Now I'm no big city science talking guy but what would that lead us to believe about that 13th century super steel compared to today's super steels?
Click to expand...

It probably wasn't as good as what we have now, but I have to think the added vanadium had to have refined the grain structure. Maybe better edge retention? You'd have to ask a metallurgist!

I'm sure they just sharpened them on grinding wheels (powered sharpening!!) and used a crock pot to maintain them like Sal showed in the sharpmaker video.
 
I believe what is commonly referred to as Damascus steel is pattern welded steel of 2 or more dissimilar steels in order to show contrast and in some cases share properties, at least I am in this camp. In that case there would be little to no advantage over a homogeneous steel of which it is primarily comprised.
It is definitely an acknowledgement to the skill set of the smith who produced it but from a pure utilitarian point of view, in nearly all cases, I do not believe it is superior.


not2sharp said:
There is no denying that it is an attractive blade treatment,

n2s
Click to expand...

I don’t believe any definition of Damascus steel would be considered a blade treatment.
 
Your first two poll options were at odds with each other.

Yes, it can be attractive. But can it be better than a modern super steel? No, unless the super steel is also made from damascus.

I voted for the first option, that super steels are better. (attractiveness is subjective and a separate question)
 
I prefer to combine both modern steel with pattern welded steel (damascus) i.e. - damsacus laminated VG10 is one of my favorites. Mcusta is a good maker for this type.
Rich
 
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I see no advantage to Damascus steel over today's better steels used in knives. As far as I'm concerned, it's mostly for looks and the novelty of it. I shy away from Damascus simply because I don't have a good foundation to reference in judging it regardless of the source. I own one Damascus bladed knife and it's a Stag Buck 110 made circa 1990 which I purchased about the time I was really starting to "get into" knives beyond basic function.

That was the first Buck 110 I owned and now I have three. But I don't use them.
 
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I have 2 in Damascus .. a Buck 110 custom shop and a CRK Classic MM.. they have in common is they lose the razor edge at a point , but they keep on cutting well.
I don't have any super steels, but BG 42at 61,S30v at 59-60 and S35vn at 59-60 out last the Damascus overall. That's just my mileage.
 
I have a Buck 110 in Stag and 512 random pattern Damascus that is a good blade. I can get it screaming, scary sharp and it keeps a decent edge for a good while but it doesn’t top my other 110s in cpm154, s30v, S35vn or 20cv. All are hollow ground. It also takes more care as I’ve had a few times it had a rusty haze on the surface which some clp oil and a rag took it right off. I use it occasionally but I keep it mostly for sentimental reasons now. I’ve field dressed many deer with it since 1989. I’ve heard some of the stainless versions are very good but I don’t have any so I can’t verify and the ones I’ve seen are very pricey.
 
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