Dan’s Arkansas worth the investment with today’s super steels?

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Feb 21, 2021
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Does anyone here think the whole progression of Dan’s Arkansas stones ( Soft Arkansas, True Hard Arkansas, Translucent Arkansas, and Black Arkansas) are worth having on their arsenal of stones?

Most of my Edc’s is s30v and VG-10. I eventually want to sharpen all my fixed blades as well when I get around to them eventually, but I just wanted to see what people think of them on today’s steel.
 
Does anyone here think the whole progression of Dan’s Arkansas stones ( Soft Arkansas, True Hard Arkansas, Translucent Arkansas, and Black Arkansas) are worth having on their arsenal of stones?

Most of my Edc’s is s30v and VG-10. I eventually want to sharpen all my fixed blades as well when I get around to them eventually, but I just wanted to see what people think of them on today’s steel.
 
Arkansas stones are only just slightly harder than plain hardened carbon steel, and anything with even chromium carbides (found in most stainless steels in abundance, and not at all a problem for common aluminum oxide or silicon carbide synthetic sharpening stones) will give Arkansas stones a very challenging time. It's part of the reason why the old Buck 440C 110 folding hunters were notoriously such a bear to sharpen--not only were they run at fairly high hardness that makes them a bit stubborn even with synthetic stones, but a lot of folks at the time were still using Arkansas stones and they'd barely scratch the stuff due to the chromium carbides being harder than the abrasive was.

Long story short, you're only going to find a full set of natural stones worthwhile compared to synthetics if you're using them exclusively for low-alloy plain carbon steels. They would not give at all satisfactory results on S30V and VG-10
 
Honestly, diamond stones will get you there faster.

A honed edge is a honed edge, the principals at play are the same. Though keep in mind that you will want to remember that diamond stones will seem to cut deeper compared to Arkansas stones of equal grit.

Go through the process through the 2000 grit stone with light pressure applied. Strop with leather coated jewelers rouge until wire edge is gone.

I love my diamond stones. My Arkansas stone sits in a corner.
 
Arkansas stones are only just slightly harder than plain hardened carbon steel, and anything with even chromium carbides (found in most stainless steels in abundance, and not at all a problem for common aluminum oxide or silicon carbide synthetic sharpening stones) will give Arkansas stones a very challenging time. It's part of the reason why the old Buck 440C 110 folding hunters were notoriously such a bear to sharpen--not only were they run at fairly high hardness that makes them a bit stubborn even with synthetic stones, but a lot of folks at the time were still using Arkansas stones and they'd barely scratch the stuff due to the chromium carbides being harder than the abrasive was.

Long story short, you're only going to find a full set of natural stones worthwhile compared to synthetics if you're using them exclusively for low-alloy plain carbon steels. They would not give at all satisfactory results on S30V and VG-10
Thank you, I had a feeling this was the right place to come to get detailed answers like this! I appreciate it!
 
T
Honestly, diamond stones will get you there faster.

A honed edge is a honed edge, the principals at play are the same. Though keep in mind that you will want to remember that diamond stones will seem to cut deeper compared to Arkansas stones of equal grit.

Go through the process through the 2000 grit stone with light pressure applied. Strop with leather coated jewelers rouge until wire edge is gone.

I love my diamond stones. My Arkansas stone sits in a corner.
Thank you sir! Would you recommend something like Spyderco ceramic ulra fine for a mirrors edge instead? I’m a sucker for a polished finish on some of my knives.
 
Thank
I have the tri-hone setup from Dan’s Whetstone and it does just fine with S35VN, CPM154, ATS-34, all sorts of carbon steels, damascus, etc.

I don’t see why they wouldn’t work for you also.
Thank you! I also have straight razors I’d love to hone and pass down to my kids. However the hair popping edge isn’t there yet. Perhaps they’re made out of softer steel than s30v I’ll have to check into it.
 
To be clear, it is possible to sharpen high-alloy steels on Arkansas stones. However it will take longer and yield a lower quality edge compared to synthetics. Sintered ceramics like the Spyderco work fine for finishing work, but should not be used for doing bulk metal removal, as it wears out the abrasive on the surface layer quickly and then needs to be reconditioned to expose fresh cutting grit, since sintered stones do not release grit in use like conventional vitrified bond synthetics will.
 
I use diamond stones, dmt 220 (xc), sharpal 320/1200 combo stone, and spyderco medium and fine ceramic to finish. Mostly stop at medium because it gives a great edge. Fine if I want that mirror look. Ultra fine if you want to go that far, but I have ultra fine sharpmaker rods if I need that.

I wouldn't bother with Arkansas on modern alloys.
 
Arkansas stones are only just slightly harder than plain hardened carbon steel, and anything with even chromium carbides (found in most stainless steels in abundance, and not at all a problem for common aluminum oxide or silicon carbide synthetic sharpening stones) will give Arkansas stones a very challenging time. It's part of the reason why the old Buck 440C 110 folding hunters were notoriously such a bear to sharpen--not only were they run at fairly high hardness that makes them a bit stubborn even with synthetic stones, but a lot of folks at the time were still using Arkansas stones and they'd barely scratch the stuff due to the chromium carbides being harder than the abrasive was.

Long story short, you're only going to find a full set of natural stones worthwhile compared to synthetics if you're using them exclusively for low-alloy plain carbon steels. They would not give at all satisfactory results on S30V and VG-10

The reference to Buck's old 440C blades, and trying to do much work on them with Ark stones, rings true to me. I learned that lesson years ago, trying to thin an edge on one of Buck's old 112 folders in 440C. Anything very wear-resistant at all, like 440C and beyond, is an exercise in frustration on Arkansas stones. If much metal removal is necessary, it'll be very, very slow and results will be disappointing. AND, it'll get exponentially slower as you go, because the carbides in these steels will quickly glaze an Arkansas stone, meaning its abrasive grit will become polished with use and will then be ineffective on most any steel at all. Even the chromium carbides in 440C, VG-10, D2, etc., are nearly twice as hard as the novaculite grit in the Arkansas stone. And vanadium carbides in steels like S30V are 3X as hard.

You can still 'burnish' a somewhat sharper edge into wear-resistant steels as mentioned. And something like a black hard Ark can be useful as an edge realignment or burr-cleanup tool on more wear-resistant steels (I've occasionally used one this way on VG-10, for that). It works in a manner similar to using a polished kitchen 'steel' for such tasks. But the existing edge on those blade alloys can't be very worn or dull, prior. Otherwise, for real edge rework requiring some true grinding, it'll be a frustrating experience. And you'll still have the glazing issues on the stones from such use, no matter how they're used on these steels.

For VG-10, I'd look at SiC or diamond for heavy grinding work. It can then be refined and/or polished on aluminum oxide stones and with AlOx polishing pastes, which work very well on this steel. (Edited to add: You can use AlOx also, for grinding work on VG-10. I prefer to use SiC or diamond simply because it'll grind VG-10 much more easily and cleanly without as much heavy burring, which can be an issue on some less-hard VG-10 blades, such as those from Spyderco.)

For S30V, either SiC or diamond for coarse grinding work. For refining it beyond ~600 grit or so, diamond is a no-brainer, best solution all the way.
 
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T

Thank you sir! Would you recommend something like Spyderco ceramic ulra fine for a mirrors edge instead? I’m a sucker for a polished finish on some of my knives.

For the polished edge look, you just need to keep going finer grit, just like sanding or polishing anything. The only difference is that the more consistently you rub the stone, the higher quality edge and polish behind the edge you will achieve. I really like using something guided, like lansky or wicked edge, to achieve this.

The jewelers rouge is really just for getting that final bit of wire edge off and bringing out the sparkle of the polished edge.

When it comes to ceramic rods, I treat them more like a steel than a stone. I use them to maintain a sharp edge on a knife I've already reprofiled to my desired bevel. Stones are used to create the initial edge and bevel. Once that's done, I use the strop if my edge is still sharp but just needs a little pep put into it. I use the ceramic rod if I've got an edge that isn't damaged, just used and needs to be maintained a little more aggressively than the strop can give. Much like how a steel pushes the edge back into alignment, the ceramic acts to recreate that aligned edge. Just like with a steel, I use them at a more obtuse angle than the bevel, so that I'm only having the rod contact the edge, not the steel behind the edge. I don't mess with the bevel after I set it or I've damaged it.
 
Does anyone here think the whole progression of Dan’s Arkansas stones ( Soft Arkansas, True Hard Arkansas, Translucent Arkansas, and Black Arkansas) are worth having on their arsenal of stones?

Most of my Edc’s is s30v and VG-10. I eventually want to sharpen all my fixed blades as well when I get around to them eventually, but I just wanted to see what people think of them on today’s steel.
For modern steels, I use silicon carbide 60/100/300 grit for edge damage and bevel set. Starting grit depends on how much metal needs to be removed.
From there on it's diamond C/M/F/EF/EEF/1 micron paste. Ending grit depends on the finish I want.

My arkansas stones are reserved for straight razors only.
Soft/hard/black. I sometimes use a spyderco ultra fine between the hard and black.
If the razor has a lot of edge damage, I might start with a fine or extra fine diamond, but a slurried soft arkansas usually takes care of it.
 
If what you are after is a mirror finish I would recommend getting either SIC or coarse diamond for setting the bevel, then anything after 400 grit ANSI go pure diamond for something like S30v. From there get yourself some diamond stropping paste after you crest 1000-1500 grit. I have found 3 micron will do a decent mirror job but if you really want to go crazy you can get a few tubes for fairly cheap and load them on some leather or balsa wood.
 
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