Dear Benchmade,
- Thread starter W_cole
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2010
- Messages
- 1,785
Benchmade is one of those companies that I generally look away from. I have even gone through a few buy sprees and ended up selling them. I am on my fourth spree and picked up a Precinct, Mini-Barrage, Mini-Grip and Grip. I had issues with the Precinct and returned it for the Mini-Barrage. I listed my issue in another thread.
So, in the dozen+ Benchmades I have had, I can honestly say that the QC is similar to Spyderco, Cold Steel, Emerson and even Kershaw/ZT. I have had equal or more issues with those other brands.
The Mini-Barrage, which I plan to sell only because I like the Mini-Grip better and they fill the same roll, is flawless. So are the Mini-Grip and Grip. Perfect centering, grinds etc.
Looking at some of the complaint threads, I see many what I would call non issues. People expect perfection from a production part where humans are involved. There can be slight flaws, that in no way effect the performance or durability.
So, in the dozen+ Benchmades I have had, I can honestly say that the QC is similar to Spyderco, Cold Steel, Emerson and even Kershaw/ZT. I have had equal or more issues with those other brands.
The Mini-Barrage, which I plan to sell only because I like the Mini-Grip better and they fill the same roll, is flawless. So are the Mini-Grip and Grip. Perfect centering, grinds etc.
Looking at some of the complaint threads, I see many what I would call non issues. People expect perfection from a production part where humans are involved. There can be slight flaws, that in no way effect the performance or durability.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2010
- Messages
- 1,785
Double post....
BTW, this forum has been very wonky for me since the remodel.
BTW, this forum has been very wonky for me since the remodel.
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2009
- Messages
- 1,735
Brand new Infidel with a lopsided grind. It's bad enough that it was the first thing I saw when the blade came out of the handle.
Normally I always sharpen my knives as soon as I get them in order to correct wonky factory grinds. This one however, will get sent back to the dealer. Sharpening this mistake out would take several millimeters off of the length of the blade, and that's only if the mistake is close to the tip.
I'm starting to think I should move an hour north and take Benchmade up on the sharpening position they have posted
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2016
- Messages
- 11,261
I got my hands on the replacement 940-1702 today.
The clip is perfectly fine and is not overbent to kingdom come. It actually sits off the scale a tiny bit. I received a few of the same type of clip from Benchmade a week or two ago, and they all sit the same. What seems a bit oddball though, is the black oxide finish is almost paint-like in it's evenness on the warranty clips. All the black oxide clips on Benchmade knives I've bought already look worn.
Blade centering is dead on. I would probably need a vernier caliper to work out which side the blade is biased.
No rogue scratches on the blade.
Grind lines and sharpening is perfectly even.
The only negative (although a relative big one), is the side-to-side blade play. I can adjust most of it out, but at the expense of ease of opening.
Would I purchase a Benchmade sight unseen again? Probably, but I'd always choose as a first preference to buy from a retailer who would check it over for me (which pretty much goes for any knife, irrespective of brand). Will I continue to consider and purchase Benchmade? Yes, absolutely.
940-1702_V2_03 by The 017, on Flickr
940-1702_V2_01 by The 017, on Flickr
940-1702_V2_02 by The 017, on Flickr
My 940 has the same problem. Its either bladeplay or too tight, no sweet spot.
Luckily the Axis lock isn't compromised by a bit of blade play like a liner or framelock would be.
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2009
- Messages
- 1,735
The knife is already on its way back. Sorry, Jimmy.
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2013
- Messages
- 345
I don't know how many here have worked a factory job but I worked a few in my youth. ISO 9000 certified all. Here's the deal fellas- Repair is cheaper than QC. Period. I'm sure a formula exists but I'll just explain-
Paying someone to go over every single piece costs money. That's an hourly wage every day all day to at least one but usually 3 or more people. Even at $10 an hour it gets expensive. Most companies (even ISO 9000 certified) check batches. That could be anywhere from 1 in 10 to 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000. It's different everywhere.
You make a product that even if it fails probably wouldn't kill anyone so not a lot government oversight exists. You also have a reputation for quality that was built over many years but production and the cost of materials has went up. You make 100 bad pieces out of 200 but those 100 are functional, but heavily flawed. Years ago this would have never left your factory, but just tossing those pieces creates too much loss. So even though you know those pieces may not be up to snuff you send them out anyways.
Those 200 pieces get bought. You have complaints but not about all 100 bad pieces. Some people don't know what to expect or have no frame of reference besides gas station crap. Some don't care because they bought "X" brand and they ROCK and are blinded by the love. Then you have the guys, well the type that come here.
You love the brand as you've come to trust them. Maybe they were the first knife that you bought that didn't cost $5 and come with a free shirt. But you can't let those flaws go, as you've come to expect a certain amount of fit and finish. Do you send every knife back? No, damn it. That adds cost to the knife and it should have been caught at the factory so you mostly fix it yourself. Then you get one that's so bad you have to say something because only a mentally disabled person would think this was OK to leave the factory!
So you come here and post. People say either "Me too." or "No way, mine have been great!". So begrudgingly you send it in thinking maybe this is a one time deal. But it's not. That's why guys get 2 out of 6 or 10 out of 40 that were flawed.
Now you have one guy or two that deal with returns. It's probably not their only job, many did other jobs like janitorial work or even ran machines when there were no returns. They inspect the product and either fix it or just replace it with a cherry picked product. You send them a list of everything that's wrong with the product, they don't even have to try to figure it out themselves! They ship it back and you're a happy camper never knowing that you are actually the QC department and you just paid a company to be so. These repair guys don't have to worry about batches and production doesn't miss a step. Modern production has been about speed and efficiency for a while now with QC taking a back burner.
So what does this mean? Complaining will probably get you nowhere. Sorry. Maybe 1 in 10 or 1 in 50 actually come back for repair, that leaves a lot of pieces that would've been thrown away out in the wild. That means less waste and more money. I worked my way to supervisory positions at every place I've ever been employed and once I got there the veil was lifted to some unbelievable and even scary stuff at all of them.
What all of these companies hope for is that it doesn't come back to bite them in the rear, you know like a certain airbag company. Certain knife companies have went down because of this need for speed instead of a need to get it right. Gerber is a perfect example. I saw a Press Release by Gerber a while ago about a individually numbered special edition knife that would cost pretty far up on the scale for them that made me sad. They were acually proud of this turd! Bad grinds, poor fitment, they must of not realized that resolution is the enemy to hiding poor fit and finish. They traded quality for quantity and now they're a laughingstock. I wouldn't buy a Gerber with someone else's money let alone my own.
Nothing will change as this is the world we live in today. It's OK to be frustrated and voice your concerns. Just don't expect miracles guys. And always check before you buy or have the company you're buying from check for you. You'll end up happier that way
PS- Sorry for the long winded post but I read the whole thread and thought I could give a little insight.
Paying someone to go over every single piece costs money. That's an hourly wage every day all day to at least one but usually 3 or more people. Even at $10 an hour it gets expensive. Most companies (even ISO 9000 certified) check batches. That could be anywhere from 1 in 10 to 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000. It's different everywhere.
You make a product that even if it fails probably wouldn't kill anyone so not a lot government oversight exists. You also have a reputation for quality that was built over many years but production and the cost of materials has went up. You make 100 bad pieces out of 200 but those 100 are functional, but heavily flawed. Years ago this would have never left your factory, but just tossing those pieces creates too much loss. So even though you know those pieces may not be up to snuff you send them out anyways.
Those 200 pieces get bought. You have complaints but not about all 100 bad pieces. Some people don't know what to expect or have no frame of reference besides gas station crap. Some don't care because they bought "X" brand and they ROCK and are blinded by the love. Then you have the guys, well the type that come here.
You love the brand as you've come to trust them. Maybe they were the first knife that you bought that didn't cost $5 and come with a free shirt. But you can't let those flaws go, as you've come to expect a certain amount of fit and finish. Do you send every knife back? No, damn it. That adds cost to the knife and it should have been caught at the factory so you mostly fix it yourself. Then you get one that's so bad you have to say something because only a mentally disabled person would think this was OK to leave the factory!
So you come here and post. People say either "Me too." or "No way, mine have been great!". So begrudgingly you send it in thinking maybe this is a one time deal. But it's not. That's why guys get 2 out of 6 or 10 out of 40 that were flawed.
Now you have one guy or two that deal with returns. It's probably not their only job, many did other jobs like janitorial work or even ran machines when there were no returns. They inspect the product and either fix it or just replace it with a cherry picked product. You send them a list of everything that's wrong with the product, they don't even have to try to figure it out themselves! They ship it back and you're a happy camper never knowing that you are actually the QC department and you just paid a company to be so. These repair guys don't have to worry about batches and production doesn't miss a step. Modern production has been about speed and efficiency for a while now with QC taking a back burner.
So what does this mean? Complaining will probably get you nowhere. Sorry. Maybe 1 in 10 or 1 in 50 actually come back for repair, that leaves a lot of pieces that would've been thrown away out in the wild. That means less waste and more money. I worked my way to supervisory positions at every place I've ever been employed and once I got there the veil was lifted to some unbelievable and even scary stuff at all of them.
What all of these companies hope for is that it doesn't come back to bite them in the rear, you know like a certain airbag company. Certain knife companies have went down because of this need for speed instead of a need to get it right. Gerber is a perfect example. I saw a Press Release by Gerber a while ago about a individually numbered special edition knife that would cost pretty far up on the scale for them that made me sad. They were acually proud of this turd! Bad grinds, poor fitment, they must of not realized that resolution is the enemy to hiding poor fit and finish. They traded quality for quantity and now they're a laughingstock. I wouldn't buy a Gerber with someone else's money let alone my own.
Nothing will change as this is the world we live in today. It's OK to be frustrated and voice your concerns. Just don't expect miracles guys. And always check before you buy or have the company you're buying from check for you. You'll end up happier that way
PS- Sorry for the long winded post but I read the whole thread and thought I could give a little insight.
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2009
- Messages
- 1,735
I didn't want to quote that whole post, but here's my take on what I think is the gist.
We aren't comparing Benchmade to ISO 9000. We are comparing them to other knife brands that offer significantly better QC for less money, and as of late, better materials.
Benchmade used to be the go-to for out-of-the-box perfection, but it seems that reputation is going by the wayside, so we are here to voice our concerns. This isn't isolated to Bladeforums. Even Nick Shabazz (gag) mentions it in his videos on a regular basis. If the average buyer watches any YouTube reviews of knives, the current QC issues are going to be presented to them by a plurality of channels.
We aren't comparing Benchmade to ISO 9000. We are comparing them to other knife brands that offer significantly better QC for less money, and as of late, better materials.
Benchmade used to be the go-to for out-of-the-box perfection, but it seems that reputation is going by the wayside, so we are here to voice our concerns. This isn't isolated to Bladeforums. Even Nick Shabazz (gag) mentions it in his videos on a regular basis. If the average buyer watches any YouTube reviews of knives, the current QC issues are going to be presented to them by a plurality of channels.
BM is killing it with the new models and designs. There are so many I want to get. And I believe these designs have longevity, not catering to short-term trends.
As for QC, lets just say i went thru five knives in order to find one i liked with my last bm purchase. Altho i am picky with quality, especially with blade centering.
That said, competition has upped their quality, and i think it would be good if we can buy bm knives sight unseen.
As for QC, lets just say i went thru five knives in order to find one i liked with my last bm purchase. Altho i am picky with quality, especially with blade centering.
That said, competition has upped their quality, and i think it would be good if we can buy bm knives sight unseen.
I don't know about anyone else but I sure feel better now...
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2015
- Messages
- 828
I've had the same experience with my recent purchases as well. I've had to order several and cherry pick the one with the least issues. Notice I said least and not no issues.
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2009
- Messages
- 1,735
I broke my Benchmade dry spell with a hollow grind Grip because they are disco’d. Here’s the skinny on my bought sight unseen brand-new Grip:
Uneven edge bevel:
Left Beef tip:
Edge bevel near the choil is rounded off to nearly 45° on one side:
Blade isn’t centered to the point where the blade rubs on the handle, marking up the blade coating:
Inside of the spyder hole has a massive tooling mark:
Drippy coating?
The action was gritty, so I disassembled it. There is an impressive amount of marring on the pivot surface (?!). You can also see the mark on the main bevel shoulder from where the blade is hitting the handle (top left of photo):
This knife is going to be a beater for me, and I sharpen my own stuff, so I’m not bummed. I can’t seem to get the blade to center, which is whatever.
If I was a collector and not a user, I’d be PISSED. This is handily the worst QC of any KNIFE, let alone Benchmade, that I’ve ever purchased in the last 25 years.
That being said, I hope BM has a decent stock of spare parts for this thing because I am going to put it through the wringer.
Uneven edge bevel:
Left Beef tip:
Edge bevel near the choil is rounded off to nearly 45° on one side:
Blade isn’t centered to the point where the blade rubs on the handle, marking up the blade coating:
Inside of the spyder hole has a massive tooling mark:
Drippy coating?
The action was gritty, so I disassembled it. There is an impressive amount of marring on the pivot surface (?!). You can also see the mark on the main bevel shoulder from where the blade is hitting the handle (top left of photo):
This knife is going to be a beater for me, and I sharpen my own stuff, so I’m not bummed. I can’t seem to get the blade to center, which is whatever.
If I was a collector and not a user, I’d be PISSED. This is handily the worst QC of any KNIFE, let alone Benchmade, that I’ve ever purchased in the last 25 years.
That being said, I hope BM has a decent stock of spare parts for this thing because I am going to put it through the wringer.
Cypress
- Did that grip have a birth date on the box, by chance? Just wondering when that thing was done. I bought 8 NIB Benchmades from the factory this year and, other than uneven bevels (nothing egregious, but they still NEED to tighten that part up for sure) they were all perfectly centered, smooth action and otherwise put together well. Small sample size, I know, and one was an Arvensis, but 6 folders and a balisong were all well made, all born this year from about May - Nov.
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2009
- Messages
- 1,735
If I remember right, it was 6/18/18. I'll double check when I get home from the office.
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2017
- Messages
- 56
Very disappointing to see that. On the flip side my new 550-1 is flawless. Perfect centering, very even edge grind, no blade play, smooth action. Just hate to see so much up and down in the quality control.