Debris shelters: an observation

[Bushman5]

So if one cruises the intraweb and looks for debris shelters, one sees a lot of debris shelters. Pretty good stuff, informative.....but i have YET to see a debris shelter being built in the POURING RAIN.....like Oregon rain, or British Columbia rain.....

I have built debris shelters , often in the fall when its cold and dry, when all the leaves are down, more material that way. Its one thing to build a debris shelter in the dry, with dry materials, you get into it and its musty, leafy smell envelopes you, your nice and warm............for the most part....here in BC you need to use plastic, as the rain is just brutal....a 3 - 4 ' thick debris shelter WILL leak in our area, no matter how well its built.

And then there is debris shelters built on the spot IN THE RAIN......the floor is already soaking wet, the roof is wet, everything is wet. There is no such thing as dry materials here in BC when it rains. To add insult to injury....One gets severely soaked gathering materials, one gets severely soaked building it, one gets severely soaked crawling into it....here that will mean DEATH in our environment.

I highly think that debris shelters are great in NON rain forest areas or areas with only light rains, but for here in BC and other similar areas, a tarp/lean to will save your life better, with less energy expenditure, and less chance of getting severely wet while building it.

just my 2 cents, your milage might vary, this is just an observation and opinion.

 

[wildmike]

You're right on the money Bushman. While the debris hut is a very useful emergency shelter in many environments it is not the answer in all situations. Tarp shelters do indeed work better in the rain forest environment of the PNW.

 

[Fonly]

For sure!

Back in Nova scotia we allways had rain, and too be frank a Debri whelter would have been horrible. A trap is usually you best bet anyways.
Wouldn't covering an A frame tarp shelter with debri be better?

 

[bikermikearchery]

If you have a tarp.

 

[stitchawl]

[SNIP]
I highly think that debris shelters are great in NON rain forest areas or areas with only light rains, but for here in BC and other similar areas, a tarp/lean to will save your life better, with less energy expenditure, and less chance of getting severely wet while building it.

just my 2 cents, your milage might vary, this is just an observation and opinion.

I think there are a couple of things to consider. It is VERY difficult to build a debris shelter in a hardwood forest in a heavy rain. Easier in a boreal forest but still someone is going to get wet! Easier still in the SE Asian jungles with all the broad leaf growth, but you still get wet. The SAS have a great system of wet/dry clothing that they use, and it is workable just as long as the people you're with don't mind the smell...
Keep a set of dry clothing in your pack to wear inside your shelter. Don't even attempt to dry out your wet clothes... just put them back on in the morning and put the dry stuff back inside the pack. Obviously this is NOT going to work in sub-zero temperatures or even those hover close to it.

I can only envision two scenarios where I might be caught 20 miles south of Nowhere without any scavenable (is that a word?) kit; if I fell from a plane or I escaped from jail. Can anyone lend some others?
If I walked away from my campsite without having some rudimentary kit I wouldn't be in this forum.

If I walked into the wilderness I'd have my pack with everything I'd need. If I were driving I'd have, besides the PSK in the car, the car's upholstery for clothing and insulation, wires for snares or fishing , hubcaps for cooking, (they are best marinated... :thumbup: ) horn, spare tire, and mirror for signaling, etc., etc. Can anyone come up with a situation where you might be caught with nothing but the clothes on your back in the wilderness?

Stitchawl

 

[RescueRiley]

I don't hink anyones gonna dispute that a tarp will keep you drier..so willa tent or a house, but the reason for building one is the same as attempting friction fire, a lighter or a match is going to be better, but the skill is worth knowing and practicing and sleeping in a natural shelter is it's own reward, that being said if I was in the middle of a torrential downpour I'd certainly reach for a tarp or poncho

 

[Carcara]

This begs the question what did the natives in the Pacific North West do
for temporary shelters?

 

[stitchawl]

This begs the question what did the natives in the Pacific North West do
for temporary shelters?

"Motel 6?"


Stitchawl

 

[Quirt]

So if one cruises the intraweb and looks for debris shelters, one sees a lot of debris shelters. Pretty good stuff, informative.....but i have YET to see a debris shelter being built in the POURING RAIN.....like Oregon rain, or British Columbia rain.....

Okay here are a couple different designs build and used during in Oregon's Coastal Range. The bottom shelter was built and used during a period of 31 straight days of rain when the woods were soaked.

This one was built around a fallen Doug Fir. It has a working door this wilderness student is demostrating.

Similar to the top photo - this one is built around a downed Doug Fir and is a modified raft shelter. Note the unqiue engineering this class used. This student slept successfully in this shelter which could easily house 3 to 4 comfortably. This person also had a reflective fire directing warmth into the shelter during the evenings.

 

[CShepherd]

"Motel 6?"


Stitchawl

Bet they left the lamp on too.

Sorry to hijack but couldn't resist.

I find this topic very interesting and the observations very astute. Has anyone here ever been separated from their kit? Just curious. I know we talk about this skill and that technique for that very scenario and I don't question the validity of their points but I for one protect my kit like gold when I'm out. I don't go doing stupid things that would separate me from it, I don't go out in the woods without it and I don't honestly envision a circumstance where I would be caught without it. In fact it's in my car right now and I work in the city. Now don't get me wrong I do study techniques in case I didn't have it but I prefer to be prepared by carrying a small kit that gives me quick easy shelter to throw up in case that thunderbuster is blowing it or whatever.

Curious about others opinions on this.

Thanks,

Charlie

 

[peripatew]

A long time ago I got some of those 4mm orange trash bags from someone here on the forum, and I try to keep one with me at all times. I've got one in my life vest when I canoe, one wrapped around my altoid tin, and one in my main bag. I think a debris shelter with this would be a good combo, I would be tempted to wear it rather than try to make a shelter out of it though. It would probably keep my warmer wearing it, but it might be more prone to tearing from moving around.

 

[batosai117]

I do check the weather beforehand, but messing with stuff in the rain is a PITA. Mud everywhere and the risk of "ewok" is there if you don't have dry clothes to change into. Like the other forumites here, I can't picture ever being seperated from my gear, or at least my day pack. If for some reason I dropped my pack and slid down a steep hill while trying to take a leak, I would at least have my EDC stuff on me, so that would be the only time I would ever have to worry about building a shelter from scratch.

 

[bikermikearchery]

If I walked into the wilderness I'd have my pack with everything I'd need. etc., etc. Can anyone come up with a situation where you might be caught with nothing but the clothes on your back in the wilderness?

Stitchawl

Fell off my boat.

 

[RescueRiley]

sure all the stuff I need is in my pack..but it doesn't stop me fro making and sleeping in a debris hut..That's buscraft though the practice or primitive living skills just for the sheer enjoyment of it. I used to to a lot of hiking and very little crafting, now its quite the oppositte.

 

[wildmike]

I too always carry my kit with me and am carefule to not become seperated from it. However I still enjoy improvising and building primitive shelters when I am outdoors. Usualyy this is accomplished through the improvement of existing features (downed trees, rock overcrops etc.). When camping on the Olympic peninsula the shelters I built always included a raised or supported bed to keep me off the ground and out of the wet.
In these wet areas especially in cold weather wearing wool is a great help. For all its being touted as superior fleece just doesn't keep ya warm when wet like wool, and in brush it doesn't last worth a damn.

 

[Bushman5]

I think some of you are missing my observation...i'm not saying debris shelters are a waste of time or that they dont work etc...They DO work, they ARE warm, BUT i have fouynd in my own personal experiences where i live that there are SOME RISKS (see list below). I also build them for fun and for skills too, i cant think of a better way to spend an afternoon, and if my friends kids are with me they have a blast.

Some reasons why i feel theydont work in my particular rain forest area (west coast BC Canada):

- 100mm a rain in a few hours is common.

- ground soak is normal. The forest floor for the better part of the year is sopping wet.

- materials used are soaking wet - ever picked up a heaping armful of wet leaves, debris or boughs? what happen? you and your clothes get soaked right thru. How many armfuls per one person debris shelter with 3' thick construction? anywhere from 200 - 1000 armfuls inmy experience........ every armful, one gets wetter and wetter. How long to build a debris shelter? i have spent anywhere from 2 hours to all day (and thats during daylight) to gather materials...... combine windchill with a soaked (and tired) body, over a 2 - 8 hour period = a very real risk of hypothermia, despite the clothing choices.

- Shelters built, with all of the above factors. Now one crawls inside and rests on a pile of boughs (wet). The wet ground saps any remaining heat from your body, you change into dry clothes, but your still hypothermic from the days work/wet clothes etc. You light a candle, get a reflective fire going, you wrap in the heat sheet. You warm up some, but it has been my experience that you do not ever really warm up fully and dry out. factor in that the roof is dripping still as the materials are not dry yet, and there is water leakage (i'm not sure how many of you have eperienced West Coast BC rains?) Sure one can cover themselfs with the heat sheet to keep dry but you get my point.....

- one can carry spare clothes sure. I do. I have changed into dry clothes after getting out of wet ones. Thats great if you can redry your wet clothes. except NOTHING drys here overnight.

thats the point i'm trying to get across.....debris shelters are not a be all end all emergency shelter. One has to think for a minute in an emergency situation....do i want to spend hours in monsoon COLD rains gathering WET materials, getting wet, expending valuable energy? or does one want to spend several minutes in that monsoon rain and erect a simple tarp lean to and spend 15 minutes building a fire?

I choose the latter.

as for the wool vs fleece debate, yea wools keeps you warm when wet. BUT....ANY wet clothing will soon sap the heat from you.

as for not having a tarp, unless my clothes are violently ripped off my body, i have a tarp. Two in the cargo pockets, one in the shirt pocket and mostlikey a big one int he pack. In over 30 years of hiking/woodstravel NOT ONCE have i been seperated from my pack or gear. Not even when i have been seperated from a boat.....my pFD has a PSK and shelter (tarp) in the pockets, as do my pants and top.

 

[Bushman5]

Okay here are a couple different designs build and used during in Oregon's Coastal Range. The bottom shelter was built and used during a period of 31 straight days of rain when the woods were soaked.

This one was built around a fallen Doug Fir. It has a working door this wilderness student is demostrating.

Similar to the top photo - this one is built around a downed Doug Fir and is a modified raft shelter. Note the unqiue engineering this class used. This student slept successfully in this shelter which could easily house 3 to 4 comfortably. This person also had a reflective fire directing warmth into the shelter during the evenings.

i see sunshine and very dry clothes in the top pic ?

ok i'm going to ask:

- roof drips/leaks?
- floor dry or wet?
- I see chainsawed or handsawed logs there.....Big saw is not something i normally carry......... how much of the shelter was handbuilt/gathered with a knife? how many armfulls of material (wet or dry?) were used? how wet was the builder during construction? any experiences od hand cramping, stiff muscles, slurred speech etc? was the shelter building planned ahead of time or was that task suddenly and exepectably thrust upon the students? (ie liek a real life emergency?) What was their frame of mind? (cold wet tired? or out for play and fun and skills? - the former is life theatening, and not the time to be building big labour extensive shelters)

I can see living on one for several weeks , one has oppurtunity to get a reall nice fire going, \dry out the clothes, make the shelter comfortable..........

whereas one building one for an emergency overnight stay does not have that luxury to make the shelter watertight, dry inside, or even get a fire going in some cases........or even get a chance to change clothes for that matter.....hence my reasoning for keeping it quick and simple, throw up a tarp, wrap in heet sheet, light a candle, get warm enough to light a fire. Its what i teach newbies when i go hiking, "Cover, wrap, lgiht candle, stay put"

 

[Macclint]

Great thread!

I just had an article published in the Backwoodsman about layering survival gear, using the scenario of crossing a river and losing the pack. In it, mentioned that it takes me about 3 hours to get a passible debris hut made.

I always at least have one of those sportsman's thermal blankets with me and I try to keep my survival gear not just in my pack but on my person too.

The silnylon tarps will fit in a coat pocket and can be set up in 5 minutes.

I practice various shelters made from natural materials on "play days" but man, a quickly deployed waterproof roof (tarp. thermal blanket, poncho) is worth it's weight in gold in heavy rain.

 

[Bushman5]

please note that in no way shape or form am I personnaly critizing anyones efforts, skills, training here. I wish to simply present another viewpoint to mull over and discuss, in the hopes that everyone can add knowledge to the most important survival tool we have - our brain.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Okay here are a couple different designs build and used during in Oregon's Coastal Range. The bottom shelter was built and used during a period of 31 straight days of rain when the woods were soaked.

.

Similar to the top photo - this one is built around a downed Doug Fir and is a modified raft shelter. Note the unqiue engineering this class used. This student slept successfully in this shelter which could easily house 3 to 4 comfortably. This person also had a reflective fire directing warmth into the shelter during the evenings.

I cannot imagine that a flat roof of log and branches covered with ferns -- or any other foilage -- arranged at random kept out rain. Heck, a flat roof covered with roofing felt and tar tends to leak. The Big Guy doesn't "like" flat roofs. If a tarp is under the ferns, then sure. Otherwise, no sale.