Demko Scorpion and Shark Locks Not Original

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kniveslikethese

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Oct 11, 2021
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I don't know if it has been explicitly claimed, but I was under the impression that Andrew Demko's Scorpion lock on the AD-15 and Shark lock on the AD-20 were his new inventions. To me, the Scorpion lock looks to be essentially the same idea as the A.G. Russell Frontlock which is on the One Hand Knife. And to me, the Shark lock looks to be essentially the same idea as the Snecx superlock which is on the Vision. Have you seen it claimed that these are Andrew Demko's novel inventions, and if so, do you think this is an accurate claim in light of these other designs?
 
kniveslikethese said:
Thank you for including the patent link. Is there something specific on the patent you would like me to check out? I did see that the patent was filed after the introduction of the Superlock.
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Nah, I was just providing some more information about the Shark Lock.

The Superlock isn't patented in the U.S. as far as I'm aware. I'd be bummed to hear that the Shark Lock was invented by someone who didn't patent it, only to have it be patented by Andrew Demko, preventing others in the U.S. from using it.
 
The whole Demko craze has baffled me in general. The dude is importing knives for dirt cheap from foreign manufacturers, made with the same materials you get on gas station knives, and charging equivalent to mid range US producers. His "designs" are definitely not original, though he unfortunately may have been the first to claim them as such. The shark lock is essentially a less practical, less ergonomically friendly axis lock and is very similar to the snecx in it's design, and yea looking at the scorpion lock I'd have to agree it's almost identical with the AG Russel frontlock.
 
he has patents on both locks. which isn't easy to get a patent when someone already has one. I know this as one of my brother in laws is a patent lawyer who worked for a couple larger universities. currently at a major florida university.

im sure they are inspired heavily by other things hes seen maybe played with. much like even Micheal Walker has said his liner lock was inspired by others past work and improved on. its naive to think brilliance isn't inspired and improved by others prior work.

even the tri-ad lock is admitted an improvement on a backlock by adding a stop pin by Andrew himself. im paraphrasing there.

regardless we are getting improvements on things from Andrew and while he's smart and protecting his improvements and hard work, so be it. hes no dummy. far as I know hes breaking no laws or doing anything wrong.

Andrew or crew were a member here..see if they want to comment... D DemkoKnives
 
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jbmonkey said:
he has patents on both locks. which isn't easy to get a patent when someone already has one. I know this as one of my brother in laws is a patent lawyer who worked for a couple larger universities. currently at a major florida university.

im sure they are inspired heavily by other things hes seen maybe played with. much like even Micheal Walker has said his liner lock was inspired by others past work and improved on. its naive to think brilliance isn't inspired and improved by others prior work.

even the tri-ad lock is admitted an improvement on a backlock by adding a stop pin by Andrew himself. im paraphrasing there.

regardless we are getting improvements on things from Andrew and while he's smart and protecting his improvements and hard work, so be it. hes no dummy. far as I know hes breaking no laws or doing anything wrong.

Andrew or crew were a member here..see if they want to comment... D DemkoKnives
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That AD 20.5 is the knife I'd most like to try this year . We live in exciting times for knife enthusiasts. :)
 
I suspect Demko's locks look similar to others on the outside but differ enough in internal construction to warrant their own patents. A good example of this is the Triad lock, which looks basically like a regular backlock, but works differently internally, with improved strength and longevity.

Artisan Cutlery also has a lock that looks and operates very much like the Shark Lock. It can be seen on models like the Crag, and I believe they call it the Recoil Lock. I've owned this model, and while I'm not sure about the internals, the shark lock feels much more solid and operates more smoothly.
 
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"Who did what first" is endlessly arguable , a US patent is less uncertain . :rolleyes:

Demko made some simple but brilliant improvements to the basic back lock and created , or at least patented , the Tri-ad lock used by Cold Steel . :cool::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Still my all time favorite lock ! So I'm not about to disrespect Demko here . ;)
 
kniveslikethese said:
Thank you for including the patent link. Is there something specific on the patent you would like me to check out? I did see that the patent was filed after the introduction of the Superlock.
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SNECX Superlock release: Dec 14, 2018
Demko patent filing: March 18, 2019

The date of filing is not necessarily important, instead, the date of first exposure to customers matters, which can be up to a year earlier than the filing.

So the timing could be completely OK.
 
All makers and designers stand on the shoulders of those who have come before them.

Kit Carson, (R.I.P.), frequently shared that opinion during our private conversations about the minutiae of knife designs, locks and patterns.

Some makers are flattered by imitation, others endeavor to protect what they consider their intellectual property rights. And so it goes.
 
The scorpion lock is vastly different from the AG Russel one hand lock. The spring at the base of the scorpion lock makes the lockbar behave a little like the triad lock where it can move slightly forward and backward. Also, the shark lock has some very interesting geometry going on in there. While it actuates similarly, I'd guess it is different enough. I haven't had a super lock to play with.
 
There are a lot of locks that are or seem like "essentially the same idea". CBBL, Axis, Sliderlock, and bolt locks fit that description. Liner, frame, and bolster are closer to triplets than cousins, but at least two of those have named creators/designers (Michael Walker with the first and Chris Reeve with the second).
 
The "AG Russell Frontlock" is actually a version of the Pat Crawford's "Crawford lock". My understanding is that Crawford never went through the patent process, A G did :), and settled up wit Crawford later.
 
jstn said:
I suspect Demko's locks look similar to others on the outside but differ enough in internal construction to warrant their own patents. A good example of this is the Triad lock, which looks basically like a regular backlock, but works differently internally, with improved strength and longevity.

Artisan Cutlery also has a lock that looks and operates very much like the Shark Lock. It can be seen on models like the Crag, and I believe they call it the Recoil Lock. I've owned this model, and while I'm not sure about the internals, the shark lock feels much more solid and operates more smoothly.
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I looked at a disassembly of the CJRB Recoil lock, and to me it looks more like an Axis lock with the addition of a carriage to move the lock bar.
Recoil lock disassembly video:
 
BilboBaggins said:
The scorpion lock is vastly different from the AG Russel one hand lock. The spring at the base of the scorpion lock makes the lockbar behave a little like the triad lock where it can move slightly forward and backward. Also, the shark lock has some very interesting geometry going on in there. While it actuates similarly, I'd guess it is different enough. I haven't had a super lock to play with.
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I do see how the coil spring at the back of the Scorpion lock does not exist in the One Hand lock, but the interface with the blade seems to be the same idea to me.
 
kreole said:
There are a lot of locks that are or seem like "essentially the same idea". CBBL, Axis, Sliderlock, and bolt locks fit that description. Liner, frame, and bolster are closer to triplets than cousins, but at least two of those have named creators/designers (Michael Walker with the first and Chris Reeve with the second).
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I think your post gets at the crux of this. How different does a design have to be from another to be a novel idea. The patent lawyers probably have this figured out, but I am curious about the opinions of knife users on these designs. I felt surprise when I saw the Front lock and the Superlock because I was under the impression that Andrew Demko invented the Scorpion lock and the Shark lock.
 
kniveslikethese said:
I do see how the coil spring at the back of the Scorpion lock does not exist in the One Hand lock, but the interface with the blade seems to be the same idea to me.
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The interface of a liner and frame lock are roughly the same, yet they are different lock types. The scorpion lock definitely differs more than enough from the one hand lock to set it apart.
 
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