Design input needed on a 4.5" fixed blade *completed*

Uh oh...please dont put a firesteel in the handle...a firesteel belongs in the sheath if anywhere. :)
 
bikerector said:
If it's like V4E, it is a great steel choice. It's tougher than CPM M4 but holds an edge better than 3V. V4E is supposed to be quite similar to 4V as well. Of course, geometry makes a big difference there as well. I find 3V is tougher than I need in 99% of the tasks I use a knife for, including chopping and batoning, though I do have a few 5160 blades for heavy use. I find steels in the 52100 toughness x edge retention range a perfect blend for most uses. Z-wear seems right along that area of toughness x edge retention but favoring the edge retention side. 3V is just tough a heck and tougher than I need as I've never been able to damage 52100 even.

I'm using edge retention instead of hardness in the above statements since there is a strong relation to the two, and then using Larrin's charts as reference, from the article you reference about history of 3V, etc. I think 3V is great if you want a tough as can be knife, but it's tougher than needed in many instances so getting more edge retention instead is a better performance mix. In my experience at least. I should also add that I like 52100 and 5160 because they are favorable on my wallet, generally speaking, so there is some bias there in the performance area, though they do perform quite well with a less premium price tag than some of the higher alloy tool steels like 3V and V4E.

http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=cpm+4v
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Yeah I've been wanting to get my hands on some V4E for a while now but it's really difficult to get for a reasonable price. I would have to get it by the sheet and it's very expensive, the mfg. only has .5" in stock right now so I would have to have it ground down so thus a good portion of the expense. I may go w/ 4V though - since I'm not planning on doing a high grit finish or anything on these that could work.

Larrin said:
4V is very versatile, it was my recommendation for "high alloy" tool steel with all-around properties. Can go higher hardness for edge stability and edge retention or go a little lower on hardness for high toughness.
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Good call thanks for the recommendation Larrin! I'm definitely planning on cutting these out in line w/ the rolling direction as per your article so thanks for all the help.

Twindog said:
Your knife is looking good, Josh. The A8(mod) blade that you ground for my Rukus 610 easily passed my initial tests for edge stability, but I haven't used it enough to give you an answer for edge retention. I can't get my Rukus with your Vanax SuperClean reblade out of my pocket. That knife just makes me happy because it is so good at everything.

My thinking on the A8(mod) blade was to have a folder with a super tough blade -- as good or better than Infi -- for extra-hard uses, such as chopping branches that encroach on my hiking trails. The reblade you made was heat treated by Fredrik Haakonsen, who is the master of this steel. At 60 Rc, Fredrik gets not just a super tough blade, but one that has good edge retention, largely because it is so good at preventing both rolls and chips, major and under-appreciated factors that are key to excellent edge retention. I know he also uses Vanadis 4 Extra, so you might want to get his opinion. I have not used Z-wear or Cruwear.

The blade on your knife has no distal taper, except for the very end where it forms the tip. That's a hard-use design element, but the knife is relatively small, so we're not talking about the high demands of a chopper. Of the steels you're talking about, which are all good, I'd probably put Vanadis 4E first for the reasons that Larrin mentions. A8(mod) would be radical, fitting with the do-it-all utility intention of this knife, but the heat treat would be important.

I have a special project 7-inch chopper made of A8(mod) with an elaborate custom heat treat. From memory, only 70 were made; and the heat treat, while excellent, proved too expensive for a production knife. There's a funny YouTube video of a bunch of excited Italians chopping a large rock in half and not getting any edge damage. I think Molletta was part of that research effort into that heat treat, so you might want to ask him, too. He's on the forum a lot.
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yeah you are probably right, heat treat def. has a ton to do with it! Thanks for the feedback man and I agree that this doesn't need to be ultra tough since it's not a dedicated chopper.
 
Lotmom said:
I'm digging that design! One thing about the firesteel..

One thing that I haven't seen done on high end knives is stowing fire steel in the handle, like how mora did with their "Light my fire" line. All you'd need is a small cutout in the blade stock and you could make a fitting piece...
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Sharp & Fiery said:
Uh oh...please dont put a firesteel in the handle...a firesteel belongs in the sheath if anywhere. :)
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Yes I can't help that this seems "gimicky" :) no offense!
 
Lotmom said:
I suppose there's a reason I've only seen it in one knife...

I swear I normally have better taste!:oops:
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Everyone is entitled to their opinions and ideas. Thats whats great about BF. Thoughts are always welcome! Even if others disagree. :) Happens all the time.
 
Sharp & Fiery said:
Everyone is entitled to their opinions and ideas. Thats whats great about BF. Thoughts are always welcome! Even if others disagree. :) Happens all the time.
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But I don't agree with myself! That's the problem!

...

okay, maybe that isn't completely true. I think it could be pulled off cleanly and functionally. It may be tough though.
 
I find most of the people that buy those knives never take the fire steel out of it ...

Kind of like a friend I had growing up buying "army boots" out of the back page in a magazine ... and a "survival knife" from the same magazine with a screw off cap that had matches and fishing line and a couple hooks in it ... and on top of the cap a compass ...

So I said do you know how to use the compass? And he said yeah it points north I want to go east I go this way ... o_O
 
I like the swedge. They look great, and can make the knife point finer. Even if it is still pretty thick on the spine.

On not sure if the swedge adds any functionality in a "bushcraft blade" but it would in a combat/dual purpose knife. Better penetration.

Choil, fine, with that style/size guard. I am mixed on knives. I go no choil, sharpening choil, and big choil.

No real order of preference. I like the look of the bigger choil, but also realize it eats about an inch of usable edge. In that size knife, I'd say no choil. But would have to use/feel it.

Jimping is fine on a combat knife. I don't really need it on a bushcrafter, or knife I expect to spend time whittling, or bearing down on the spine with my thumb.

I've torn a thumb clean open in the dark on a knife with no jimping, so jimping would have made it worse. Just a rough coating under the thumb, dark, and levering the knife repeatedly with my other thumb, on what I was whittling. (Hogging shavings to try and get fire started in the dark. Cold/damp)

Knife felt wet, and I fished out my flashlight to see blood and skin torn....

In a knife I'm going to use for shavings, whittling, traps, etc, I will round my spine a bit if not already done.


I'm not a huge fan of using a ferro rod on my nice knives. Scars and uglies them up.

I have a scraper with my ferro rods, and if it is an emergency I'll use part of the edge only if I don't have a scraper.


So the scraper on spine is not necessary for me.
 
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Bigfattyt said:
No real order of preference. I like the look of the bigger choil, but also realize it eats about an inch of usable edge. In that size knife, I'd say no choil. But would have to use/feel it.

Jimping is fine on a combat knife. I don't really need it on a bushcrafter, or knife I expect to spend time whittling, or bearing down on the spine with my thumb.

I've torn a thumb clean open in the dark on a knife with no jimping, so jumping would have made it worse. Just a rough coating under the thumb, dark, and levering the knife repeatedly with my other thumb, on what I was whittling. (Hogging shavings to try and get fire started in the dark. Cold/damp)

Knife felt wet, and I fished out my flashlight to see blood and skin torn....
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I this case you would only be losing about 1/4-3/8" of the edge w/ the finger choil vs. a regular choil, because I still have to terminate the grind somewhere and clear the plunge area.

How did your thumb get torn open? Was it just the pressure against the aggression of the coating or did it get the corner of the spine? I think I'm going to leave the jimping but make sure I do it right, enough for some grip but not enough to cause blisters/hot spots or cut anyone lol. I also could switch it up to a finer type jimping like is on a folder like the sebenza or spyderco para 2 so that is an option.

Thanks for the input, very helpful, and I agree on the ferro rod issue!
 
razor-edge-knives said:
I this case you would only be losing about 1/4-3/8" of the edge w/ the finger choil vs. a regular choil, because I still have to terminate the grind somewhere and clear the plunge area.

How did your thumb get torn open? Was it just the pressure against the aggression of the coating or did it get the corner of the spine? I think I'm going to leave the jimping but make sure I do it right, enough for some grip but not enough to cause blisters/hot spots or cut anyone lol. I also could switch it up to a finer type jimping like is on a folder like the sebenza or spyderco para 2 so that is an option.

Thanks for the input, very helpful, and I agree on the ferro rod issue!
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High pressure, cutting pretty stubborn wood. Thumb on spine, second hand holding the stick, and second thumb adding pressure on right hand thumb. Repeat for 20-30;minutes in dark (hands were cold also). Basically wore a big blister on thumb, and kept going, tore the blister open, and kept going. In the light, with cold hands, I would have noticed soon enough to avoid it. Also, had my hands been warm, it would have been easier to notice the hot spot.

The coating on the knife was a rougher epoxy finish on a smaller Busse. I stripped the coating, and lightly sanded the spine to avoid in the future.

I would add, that thumb, on the right hand has a severed nerve, and loss of sensation. Still a full strength thumb, but kind of dumb now! Really puts a damper on swinging a bat, or sword, or pick axe, or anything else where shock is transferred to that thumb. Frequent lightning bolts of pain if I hit the scar/cut line.

I don't hate jimping (as some do).

I enjoy it on knives like Sebenza, Spyderco, Hinderer, and other customs.

I don't have to have it, but don't complain on many knives. If it is too aggressive, I have no hesitation to soften it, with sandpaper or stones.
 
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oh man... got the 3D printed knife in and assembled... really excited about his one, handle feels like it fits like a glove w/ all the contouring and recesses! Going to have the second revision printed asap!

Length of the blade and handle is just perfect imho, it's basically a 3 position handle (choked up, normal, and low grip for chopping small branches).

i-582bjGQ-X2.jpg


Here's the normal grip , you can see how my fingers just wrap around and fit in the recess nicely.

i-xxvQPJD-X2.jpg


Choked up position actually works really well even skipping the jimping and resting your thumb on the smooth part of the spine. Feels like this will offer a lot of control! Glad we are keeping the choil :)

i-6zp5Cfs-X2.jpg


And for a low grip when chopping/hacking... the blade aggressive design will contribute nicely to this I think, along w/ the light handle curve downwards as will be in the 2nd revision.

i-zfr7RHH-X2.jpg


here's a couple other holds to check out! with the rounding of the butt this will be nice and comfy as well.

i-W8RRX76-X2.jpg


Pinch grip, recess offers perfect reference point so I feel good about the placement on this, I wonder if I should curve it down towards the blade right here though? (so the recess ends up closer to the blade)

i-3S65M77-X2.jpg


And finally, in a hammer grip the chamfers seem to offer a nice resting place for the thumb!

i-s7n3hzC-X2.jpg


2nd revision to follow in a few days! So any other thoughts, chime in while you can ;)
 
I'd either go full flat grind OR drop the spine to the level of the current plunge line. It's a very broad blade, which makes turning a cut difficult, so in general a blade does well to be as narrow as the constraints on spine thickness and grind angles permits. Also, I've personally never found jimping to be anything more than eye candy. If a ramp is present, I find smooth is the most comfortable in long-term use, as any grip retention it adds should be from the shape of the ramp rather than its texture. Just my thoughts!
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
I'd either go full flat grind OR drop the spine to the level of the current plunge line. It's a very broad blade, which makes turning a cut difficult, so in general a blade does well to be as narrow as the constraints on spine thickness and grind angles permits.
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Hmmm... good thoughts.

What does everyone else think about making the blade more narrow...?? keep it or change it?
 
I would be very interested in this design. I like what you have going here and have enjoyed following your work with your great attention to the little details. This appears to be a great user knife that I would like to try. I like the revisions so for, however, I would forego the 3 dimples on each handle scale as things like this tend to accumulate blood and fat when dressing and processing game, which is some of the work that this knife would see with me.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Also, I've personally never found jimping to be anything more than eye candy. If a ramp is present, I find smooth is the most comfortable in long-term use, as any grip retention it adds should be from the shape of the ramp rather than its texture. Just my thoughts!
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Those are fine thoughts. That ramp is shaped well enough that jimping would be really unnecessary.

I have a couple of knives where the jimping helps, but it is because there is no real defined ramp in the design.

And I don't know what it is, but I always feel that if you require a finger choil, then the handle just isn't done correctly.

A sharpening notch/choil would really be all that's necessary on this one for me. YMMV, of course. (And seems it does)
 
razor-edge-knives said:
Hmmm... good thoughts.

What does everyone else think about making the blade more narrow...?? keep it or change it?
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I think that's something best answered yourself, ultimately! Think about the intended context of use, and weight the pros and cons of either route (FFG with profile held constant vs. lowering the spine to the plunge line to make it a de facto FFG) in those contexts. Let the context of use decide the form and the aesthetic decisions can be made as the final touches, like the garnish and plating of a fine dish. But the meat and potatoes of that metaphorical meal is the performance, so the form has to adhere to the design considerations that make a knife excel in those intended roles in the settings and conditions envisioned for it. :):thumbsup:
 
I actually like jimping that provides good grip ... some of my favorite jimping is on the Winkler II Jager Knife ... a Winkler/Jason Knight collab...

Some may say it's aggressive ... but it's close and not deep and truely has a function ...

I'm very interested to see the second revision ... but it looks like you are getting it dialed in ...

And although you asked for input ... just remember this is your baby Josh ... we all put our two cents worth in ... but ultimately it is your vision that matters ...

I'm sure you've spoken to people who make knives about some of the ideas you have for it ... between that and the knowledge you have ... from handling probably more knives than 99% of the people on earth with your business ... I think you got this :thumbsup:
 
Heaps of great feedback already, I think the design looks great. I just wanted to chime in to say how cool it is to see rapid prototyping being used to dial in ergonomics like this, such a great ability to have. Also those are some spicy renders haha
 
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